HOF'er Perceptions

[JollyElm]

I started collecting cards as a little kid in 1972 and quickly became an enthusiastic lover of the great game of baseball. This was in Queens, NY in the shadow of Shea Stadium. We then moved out to Long Island.

Like virtually everyone else from their generation, my parents were fervent fans of the Brooklyn Dodgers and refused to go to another baseball game (save when my dad took my brother and I to see the Mets in '76) once the Bums and Giants hightailed it to the left coast.

Okay, that's the basic background, but the point of this post is perception. My friends and I were ravenous card collectors who put the Mets and Yankees first, just like kids in other cities put their home teams first. Here's the question. I am wondering which players (who eventually made it to Cooperstown) you thought were the absolute cream of the crop when you saw 'old' cards from the 50's and 60's? You know, like when your friend's older brother had a stack of cards laying around, who were you in awe of? And which star players really didn't do much for you and your friends? I'm interested in knowing how perceptions differed based on geographical regions, because in my mind it will always be Willie, Hank and Ernie at the top. You??

In my neck of the woods there was the unquestionable big three:
Willie Mays
Hank Aaron
Ernie Banks

Slightly below them were these guys (mainly because we never saw most of them play):
Roberto Clemente
Ted Williams
Stan Musial
Sandy Koufax
Whitey Ford
Duke Snider

Guys we knew were great, but didn't spend much time thinking about:
Frank Robinson
Juan Marichal
Brooks Robinson
Yogi Berra
Warren Spahn
Mickey Mantle
Don Drysdale
Harmon Killebrew
Lou Brock
Willie McCovey
Al Kaline
Bob Gibson
Billy Williams

Complete also-rans who we knew nothing about:
Hoyt Wilhelm
Luis Aparicio
Early Wynn
Robin Roberts
Eddie Mathews

[hangman62]

Jolly,
very true...even Pete Rose was thought of as " just allright "

[ValKehl]

I was a kid in the 1950's in the DC suburbs, where I have lived my entire 70+ years. So, of course, my team was the old Senators (now the Twins). My folks didn't have much, but Dad would take me to Griffith Stadium a few times a year - fortunately for me, baseball was the only sport he cared anything about. So, I consider myself very fortunate to have seen Williams, Mantle, Yogi, Whitey, Brooks, Nellie, Aparicio, Kaline, Wynn, etc. play. And, since my folks always got a newspaper, I became a keen reader of the sports section at an early age, so I was very aware of who the outstanding players in the A.L. were. I never got to see any N.L. games when I was young, so all I knew about the N.L stars was what I read in the newspaper (and on the backs of baseball cards, of course) and what I saw occasionally on TV.

As I watched the beginning of Killebrew's career (because the Senators paid him such a huge bonus, they were not permitted to initially start him in the minors to get some seasoning and experience), I was pissed that my Senators squandered their money on this kid who struck out most of the time when they infrequently gave him a chance to play. I must mention, that to my Dad, striking out was practically a Cardinal sin - hence, his and my heroes were the .300 singles hitters who seldom struck out (which is about all that I can say for my Little League career - i.e., the not striking out part, not the hitting .300 part), such as Pete Runnels. I would never have guessed that Killebrew, who is one of the nicest ballplayers that I have ever met, would go on to have a HOF career!
Val

[Vintagevault13]

Growing up in Atlanta in the 70s, Hank Aaron is an obvious answer. He will always be my favorite and remains an icon in Atlanta still today. While I never saw him play, Mickey Mantle was a player that I heard about often. In those pre-Internet days, stories of players' exploits seemed more mythical because we only knew about them through books or newspapers. I remember reading about Mantle's 565-foot homer and being in awe. Like Mantle, Wilie Mays was another that I read about. Marveling at the photo of his famous catch in the World Series is is probably one of my earliest baseball memories. In some ways I really miss those days. There was a fascination and innocence about baseball and the players that we don't have today IMO.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Vintagevault13

Growing up in Atlanta in the 70s, Hank Aaron is an obvious answer. He will always be my favorite and remains an icon in Atlanta still today. While I never saw him play, Mickey Mantle was a player that I heard about often. In those pre-Internet days, stories of players' exploits seemed more mythical because we only knew about them through books or newspapers. I remember reading about Mantle's 565-foot homer and being in awe. Like Mantle, Wilie Mays was another that I read about. Marveling at the photo of his famous catch in the World Series is is probably one of my earliest baseball memories. In some ways I really miss those days. There was a fascination and innocence about baseball and the players that we don't have today IMO.

Well put.

[chris6net]

I am probably close in age to you(I am 50) and I grew up in Suffolk County. In the town I grew up in just about every kid was a Mets Fan and Tom Seaver was a god. I can remember a few kids with older brothers liking the Yankees and talking about Mickey Mantle (this was around 1971-72) but it was all Mets.
Willie Mays and Hank Aaron were very popular I am guessing because they were both getting close to Ruth in the HR chase .
Roberto Clemente after the 1971 series and Vida Blue -not a hofer and Reggie Jackson were also very popular as well as the Big Red Machine.
It was still all about the Mets where I lived until about 1975 when the Yankees started spending money.

[David W]

I was born near Cleveland Ohio and in 1969 at age 6 we moved to Central llinois.

My grandmother and dad were Indians fans, so I always heard about Bob Feller, even 20 years after he no longer pitched.

Central Illinois was about 50/50 Cub vs. Cardinal fans. If you were a Cardinal fan in the early 70's, Joe Torre and Lou Brock were it, to a lesser extent Bob Gibson and of course the "Mad Hungarian" Al Hrabosky. Later into the 80's it was Willie McGee and Ozzie Smith and Bruce Sutter.

Cub fans I played ball with always wanted to be Ernie Banks or Billy Williams, with Kessinger and Santo also popular.

National players were Willie Mays, Clemente and Aaron as I recall. Also, for some reason one of my friends was a huge Maury Wills fan.

Also, later into the 70's Bench, Rose, et al of the Big Red Machine were popular in Central Illinois.

[Bigdaddy]

I grew up in the mid-70's and the guys who were playing then and commanded the most respect in my circle of lunch-pail card traders were (in no particular order):

Pete Rose
Johnny Bench
Steve Garvey
Tom Seaver
Reggie (no last name needed)
Rod Carew and
Willie Stargell

Players we just missed seeing:

Mickey Mantle
Willie Mays
Hank Aaron
Sandy Koufax

Players who we only knew in black and white:

Ted Williams
Babe Ruth
Ty Cobb
Honus Wagner

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

As a fan who grew up in the 1990s it didn't get better than the Kid.

[MattyC]

Perceptions are often far, far removed from reality.

In addition, I think far too many baseball fans waste thought and energy on the HOF (and other voted awards, such as MVP, for that matter). The HOF is an institution whose membership is determined by "sports writers."

What qualifies these men to make such determinations, as opposed to players (the veterans' committee notwithstanding) or even fans?

These "sports writers" have so often proven themselves irrational, subjective, and petty that I have zero respect for so many them. Their personal biases are what color their decisions, and somehow grown men wind up being baited by the whole sports "journalism" (entertainment) machine into debating the inconsistent and irrational choices of these "writers."

Educated fans can watch players and look at stats and make our own determinations of who the greatest were. I say utterly ignore what amounts to popularity contests decided by others whose opinions are worth as much as anyone else's.

[tulsaboy]

Growing up in the 1980's, we all were excited about Mattingly, McGwire, Canseco, Strawberry, Clemens, Boggs, Sandberg,Will Clark, and Bo Jackson.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by tulsaboy

Growing up in the 1980's, we all were excited about Mattingly, McGwire, Canseco, Strawberry, Clemens, Boggs, Sandberg,Will Clark, and Bo Jackson.

It's funny that you mention those specific guys, because I was at a show today and quite a few people had that entire grouping of players prominently displayed on their tables. I finally asked one of the dealers, "Why??" and his response was, "Look at the grades! You never see that Will Clark in a 9!!" I chuckled and moved far away from that table.

[Volod]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Perceptions are often far, far removed from reality.

In addition, I think far too many baseball fans waste thought and energy on the HOF (and other voted awards, such as MVP, for that matter). The HOF is an institution whose membership is determined by "sports writers."

What qualifies these men to make such determinations, as opposed to players (the veterans' committee notwithstanding) or even fans?

These "sports writers" have so often proven themselves irrational, subjective, and petty that I have zero respect for so many them. Their personal biases are what color their decisions, and somehow grown men wind up being baited by the whole sports "journalism" (entertainment) machine into debating the inconsistent and irrational choices of these "writers."

Educated fans can watch players and look at stats and make our own determinations of who the greatest were. I say utterly ignore what amounts to popularity contests decided by others whose opinions are worth as much as anyone else's.

Second your motion, Matt, on HOF'ers. How about Ed Barrow, as a case in point - only reason he's in the hall is as payback for giving Ruth to the Yankees.