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Old 11-13-2017, 09:21 AM
scomeau scomeau is offline
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Default 'Altered' vs 'Authentic' - confused

This stems from a PSA submission of a '54 Kaline that came back as simply 'Altered'. I can't see anything! I got no insight from PSA as to why. It has a flip stuck to a 'CardSaver' and has a Cert#, but it is "not in their database". It's not an update lag as it was months ago.

Anyway, I googled to learn the technical difference between 'Altered' and 'Authentic' only to find little good info. I have 'Authentic' grades that I assume are either trimmed, torn, skinned, or otherwise mistreated. But I can't find real detail on the difference between altered, authentic and 'altered authentic'.

It seems that 'Altered' leans more toward restoration attempts, but then why doesn't 'trimmed' also get that grade? I got the sense that there is no question regarding authenticity as it wasn't described as counterfeit. So, why won't they encapsulate?

I guess I'd also like to know how it would affect valuation! Since it can't be encapsulated, does it become worthless?

I will call PSA to see what they say, but I thought you might help clear the fog and provide some advice.

Thanks.

Last edited by scomeau; 11-13-2017 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:30 AM
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Robert Williams
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Quote:
Since it can't be encapsulated, does it become worthless?
Far from it. Some people go out of their way to collect "A" cards because it allows them to get a nicer looking card for a fraction of the price. Try submitting to SGC, and check the box allowing them to put "A" cards in holders.

Last edited by bobbyw8469; 11-13-2017 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:34 AM
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Authentic should be applied to any cards that have been treated roughly, hand cut, ect, ect, but not manipulated deliberately in anyway as to enhance the cards appeal or value.

Altered cards are cards that were deliberately altered to enhance the appeal and or value.

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Old 11-13-2017, 10:54 AM
scomeau scomeau is offline
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Thanks Andrew.

A couple questions.
Does anyone offer 'Authentic Altered' encapsulation?
Does anyone actually describe the issue or just reject?

I have seen older cards that are 'Authentic' but have black pen used on the front or back to cover chips or tears. Especially like N300 Mayo Cut Plug. I'm talking SGC or PSA graded 'A'. Isn't that deliberate? Trimmed too...

Again, thanks.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:57 AM
scomeau scomeau is offline
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Thanks. Does 'A' include altered? Do they differentiate between Altered and Authentic?
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:29 AM
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This was encapsulated about 10 years ago. An erasure at the bottom caused the "altered authentic" determination.
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File Type: jpg fc1870.jpg (74.6 KB, 249 views)
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:44 AM
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A is used as an umbrella grade. It can be on a card that was altered, is in poor condition, is just Authentic(as some card issues were), or some collectors just want a card slabbed and an A used instead of numerical.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:46 AM
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@ndrew woo.dfin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte View Post
This was encapsulated about 10 years ago. An erasure at the bottom caused the "altered authentic" determination.
Great example Gary. I do not believe SGC labels like that though. Its just an A.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:55 AM
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From PSA's website.
img858.jpg
Manning A.jpg
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Old 11-13-2017, 12:24 PM
bigfanNY bigfanNY is offline
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I had a long talk with 2 graders who sat down at lunch table with me at national. We only discussed 2 issues min size requirement and altered. What they said about altered was most altered cards were placed in heavy plastic screwdowns and pressure was applied to the card. Hence the term altered stock. SGC has the same term. I have had cards from Goudey's to 80's rookies get this grade.And for a time I like many used large screwdowns to display cards at shows so I accepted them at their word. Hope this helps.
Jonathan
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