Problems with two championship rings in upcoming Heritage Auction

[sports-rings]

I see that one of the most controversial people in our hobby, Peter Nash published did a story at his website today on this Heritage Auction.

He points out some issues with a few of the high-end lots and he must have seen this post because he mentions the two rings in his story.

If any of the folks at Heritage see this post, or reads Peter's new blog article, would you please rethink your strategy on keeping questionable items in your auctions when evidence suggests that the item should be pulled or when the description needs to be modified?

That's all I'm asking.

[Chris Ivy]

Originally Posted by sports-rings

I see that one of the most controversial people in our hobby, Peter Nash published did a story at his website today on this Heritage Auction.

He points out some issues with a few of the high-end lots and he must have seen this post because he mentions the two rings in his story.

If any of the folks at Heritage see this post, or reads Peter's new blog article, would you please rethink your strategy on keeping questionable items in your auctions when evidence suggests that the item should be pulled or when the description needs to be modified?

That's all I'm asking.

Michael,
As you are aware, we have had open communication about these lots and I thanked you for bringing this information to my attention. Per our email exchange of July 18 (below), I feel that I addressed the concerns that you relayed to me:


Michael,
The catalog was at print prior to you contacting me about the Steelers rings.

As I have told you from the beginning, I will let you know when, or if, we decide to make an edit to the listings. However, it is important that we cover all bases prior to making an edit because we have to do right by both our consignor and our bidders, so there is no need to make a hasty decision prior to all the facts being in. As I told you, I have reached out to the consignor and the consignor is contacting Edwards to get to the bottom of the matter. I hope to have this done early next week.

Your assertion that you need to warn the collecting community before “someone buys a ring that they may later regret” is unfounded for several reasons. When an edit is made to the items, each bidder will be automatically notified of the update and if they wish to alter their bids, then they will have that opportunity. As I have told you, we have no interest in selling ANY item that is not as advertised because we stand behind every item that we sell. If the rings are sold and are not as advertised, we would provide a full refund and be out of the money. Given all of this information, it appears to me that you are giving me an arbitrary ultimatum because you are simply impatient. If that is the case, then posting speculation on a message board could materially affect the pieces and the outcome for our consignor, which I take seriously.

Again, I appreciate you coming to me with your thoughts and the additional images on the rings. The listings will be updated, removed, or left as is, once we get to the bottom of our additional research with the consignor. The auction does not conclude for 13 more days and as you know, most of the bidding occurs in the final 48 hours.

Regards,
Chris


Given the above email exchange, I feel that your post which I have quoted above is intellectually dishonest. If I do not do what I said that I was going to do, then you have every right to publically call me out, but I made it clear that we were gathering all of the facts and that we did not wish to make multiple updates to the lot as that would only serve to further confuse bidders. We were working to gather all of the facts that we could before making the decision to update or remove the lots, as I would trust that any consignor would want.

It has taken much longer than I would have preferred, but the consignor tells me that Don Edwards will be available to discuss details on Monday. At that time, we will make a final decision on the update or the removal of the Steelers rings.

This will serve as my only post on the matter so if anyone has any questions, then please feel free to contact me directly.

Regards,
Chris

[sports-rings]

Originally Posted by Chris Ivy

Michael,
As you are aware, we have had open communication about these lots and I thanked you for bringing this information to my attention. Per our email exchange of July 18 (below), I feel that I addressed the concerns that you relayed to me:


Michael,
The catalog was at print prior to you contacting me about the Steelers rings.

As I have told you from the beginning, I will let you know when, or if, we decide to make an edit to the listings. However, it is important that we cover all bases prior to making an edit because we have to do right by both our consignor and our bidders, so there is no need to make a hasty decision prior to all the facts being in. As I told you, I have reached out to the consignor and the consignor is contacting Edwards to get to the bottom of the matter. I hope to have this done early next week.

Your assertion that you need to warn the collecting community before “someone buys a ring that they may later regret” is unfounded for several reasons. When an edit is made to the items, each bidder will be automatically notified of the update and if they wish to alter their bids, then they will have that opportunity. As I have told you, we have no interest in selling ANY item that is not as advertised because we stand behind every item that we sell. If the rings are sold and are not as advertised, we would provide a full refund and be out of the money. Given all of this information, it appears to me that you are giving me an arbitrary ultimatum because you are simply impatient. If that is the case, then posting speculation on a message board could materially affect the pieces and the outcome for our consignor, which I take seriously.

Again, I appreciate you coming to me with your thoughts and the additional images on the rings. The listings will be updated, removed, or left as is, once we get to the bottom of our additional research with the consignor. The auction does not conclude for 13 more days and as you know, most of the bidding occurs in the final 48 hours.

Regards,
Chris


Given the above email exchange, I feel that your post which I have quoted above is intellectually dishonest. If I do not do what I said that I was going to do, then you have every right to publically call me out, but I made it clear that we were gathering all of the facts and that we did not wish to make multiple updates to the lot as that would only serve to further confuse bidders. We were working to gather all of the facts that we could before making the decision to update or remove the lots, as I would trust that any consignor would want.

It has taken much longer than I would have preferred, but the consignor tells me that Don Edwards will be available to discuss details on Monday. At that time, we will make a final decision on the update or the removal of the Steelers rings.

This will serve as my only post on the matter so if anyone has any questions, then please feel free to contact me directly.

Regards,
Chris

Chris,

Thank you for replying in this forum and thank you for your time on this matter and for your civility.

Chris the main issue I have with these two rings is that it has become abundantly clear that the two rings were not manufactured originally with Mr. Edwards name, uniform number and position engraved.

Not a single person I have spoken to or shown the photos to, has concluded that the markings are original and proper.

I can't imagine what Mr. Edwards can possibly tell you or show you that would change someone's mind that the manufacturer produced the "Edwards" engravings when you compare them to other examples of engravings of real rings.

Chris, you have more knowledge about the hobby than I do but I have an interesting story: I received a phone call last year from a pawn shop that I purchase items from. They had a National Champions collegiate football ring.

I wrote down the player's name and then proceeded to goggle him and found thru wiikipedia that he was a player on the team and had some important contributions.

Chris, after I received the ring, I learned that he was a con-man and had never played for the team. He created a false history of himself on the internet, (most of it on wikipedia) and went around for years and told everyone he played on that college team. He went to official events and signed tons of autographs, and even got a major ring manufacturer to make him a national champions ring.

I share this story with you because it taught me that there are people out there who want so badly to let others think they were part of a team that they would go to great lengths to associate themselves with the organization.

Chris, I have no idea if Mr. Edwards is doing the same thing, but if there is no record of Mr. Edwards playing college football and there were no practice squads during this time period, I would be very concerned if I were you about the rings being authentic relative to their present descriptions. After all, according to the superbowl XIII ring, Mr. Edwards was assigned a uniform number that season (and checking the roster, no one else had that number) and Mr. Edwards was a defensive back (just not in college or the pros). And none of this may be relevant since when I enlarged pictures of your rings and other rings, it became crystal clear to everyone on this board and those I spoke to in the championship-ring collecting community that those engravings are not original.

Thank you again for coming on and for working with me on this matter, I do appreciate your time on this matter.

[William Farrell]

"I wrote down the player's name and then proceeded to goggle him and found thru wiikipedia that he was a player on the team and had some important contributions.

Chris, after I received the ring, I learned that he was a con-man and had never played for the team. He created a false history of himself on the internet, (most of it on wikipedia) and went around for years and told everyone he played on that college team. He went to official events and signed tons of autographs, and even got a major ring manufacturer to make him a national champions ring."

Mike, you're willing to go the distance and put in the time on the investigative "leg-work" to thoroughly research the background of a questionable piece. Many take the road less traveled, to the unfortunate compromising of the integrity in the sports collectable arena.

[zachtruitt]

It seems pretty straight forward to me. No record of this person, no ring.