Has anyone seen this before? (1962 Topps Print Error)

[kemdawg]

Hello all,

I picked up these two, 1962 Topps cards that are missing the wood border around both of them. The Carl Willey is also missing the background and his uniform. The backs are perfectly fine. Has anyone seen this before? Is there any type of premium on cards like this?

[toppcat]

No but those are super cool, especially the Willey!

[swarmee]

My first thoughts would be sun fading or altered with a cleaning solution...

[JollyElm]

Yeah, what info can you give us at home about these cards? Do the white areas have any sign of ink being there at some point? And get your nose in there and tell us if there are any signs/odors of chemicals at play, yes?

[ALR-bishop]

Whatever they are they are neat. Willey is spooky enough on his regular card but he is downright terrifying on that one

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

My first thoughts would be sun fading or altered with a cleaning solution...

I agree on being altered. Pretty easy to see when you know what to look for. There is a reason that the color is fuzzy looking around the edges.

Here is the picture of a Maddux I removed the ink off the bottom of. Depending on the chemical on whether it leaves a smell or not.

EDIT: There is no price premium, they are garbage.

[kemdawg]

I ran the smell test and they smell just like any other card from the 1960's - nothing unusual there. I also looked at them closely under a loupe. The Willey shows the print dots on his head but there is no evidence of any other printing around the card. The interesting thing to note is that the face and hair of Willey are completely intact. I actually don't think this is a chemical thing as the level of detail someone would have had to put in to make this as clean is it is would have been daunting. For example, I can literally see some of the wisps of his hair and then empty white space in between under the loupe. The Brosnan card is a bit different as you can see as it does have more coloring and background on it. Lastly, the surface is relatively clean, meaning it looks like any other surface from a 1962 issue (in GD to VG condition granted). My instinct is that this is simply a printing defect but I've just never seen this before on any issue ever.

[kemdawg]

One more thing...these cards came from a collection I purchased where the owner collected when he was a kid. They were mixed in with many other '62's but these were the only two that had this defect. The overall collection was from the 50's and 60's and I came across no other altered cards.

[irv]

Originally Posted by kemdawg

I ran the smell test and they smell just like any other card from the 1960's - nothing unusual there. I also looked at them closely under a loupe. The Willey shows the print dots on his head but there is no evidence of any other printing around the card. The interesting thing to note is that the face and hair of Willey are completely intact. I actually don't think this is a chemical thing as the level of detail someone would have had to put in to make this as clean is it is would have been daunting. For example, I can literally see some of the wisps of his hair and then empty white space in between under the loupe. The Brosnan card is a bit different as you can see as it does have more coloring and background on it. Lastly, the surface is relatively clean, meaning it looks like any other surface from a 1962 issue (in GD to VG condition granted). My instinct is that this is simply a printing defect but I've just never seen this before on any issue ever.

I agree, that would be near impossible to accomplish using a chemical.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by irv

I agree, that would be near impossible to accomplish using a chemical.

Did you not see the Maddux card I pictured? It is very easy to do. There is ZERO chance those are printing errors.

[irv]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Did you not see the Maddux card I pictured? It is very easy to do. There is ZERO chance those are printing errors.

I am thinking, like the OP, it would be very difficult to get so close and be so perfect without coloring outside the lines so to speak?

Your Maddux shows exactly why it would be tough imo.
Very easy to discolor/bleach it, but not so easy staying within the lines if you will?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by irv

I am thinking, like the OP, it would be very difficult to get so close and be so perfect without coloring outside the lines so to speak?

Your Maddux shows exactly why it would be tough imo.
Very easy to discolor/bleach it, but not so easy staying within the lines if you will?

I used a paper towel to remove that ink. That is why the edge were the cleaned and regular ink come together looks that bad. I made that card so a fellow member could learn how to spot a specific alteration.

Tomorrow when I have more time I will dig threw my collection and post some Boggs cards that are way nicer than the crap job done on the 2 cards the OP showed. The one that is missing the border really shows it was a chemical. If it was a real print error the ink by the missing border would not look so bad.

[irv]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I used a paper towel to remove that ink. That is why the edge were the cleaned and regular ink come together looks that bad. I made that card so a fellow member could learn how to spot a specific alteration.

Tomorrow when I have more time I will dig threw my collection and post some Boggs cards that are way nicer than the crap job done on the 2 cards the OP showed. The one that is missing the border really shows it was a chemical. If it was a real print error the ink by the missing border would not look so bad.

I just find it hard to believe that someone could get so close to the hair and other details of the face/head using a chemical without it being obvious?

I am not expert but I assume it would have to be (the chemical) applied with a brush or something similar?

The pic actually looks like a perfect cutout/factory made head that was placed on another piece of cardboard. It is that clean around the edges to me.

[bnorth]

Here is a picture of the unaltered Willey card. There is little to no ink that has to be removed close to his head. Probably why they chose that card.

[irv]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Here is a picture of the unaltered Willey card. There is little to no ink that has to be removed close to his head. Probably why they chose that card.

Interesting.

I see what you mean now, and it very well could be the case?

[JollyElm]

I hate to say it (because, come on, we would all like this to be a real item), but I'm slowly climbing on board the Ben train. If you really look at the 'altered' Willey card, you can sorta see that the sky is still there. But more importantly, you can definitely make out exactly where the dark woodgrain borders are/were. It suggests the card was 'normal' at some point and then f_cked with. I hope I'm wrong.

[con40]

These were just simply erased with a hi-polymer white eraser. I'm certain. Look at the fading along the edges of the remaining images. That's from the eraser. It's possible to erase the ink off a card right down to the clay-coat white stock beneath. I used to do it when I was a kid so I could re-color the hats for guys who got traded to new teams.

[ALR-bishop]

These were probably Keith's cards at one time heh

[savedfrommyspokes]

The bottom of Willey's left ear looks a little "fuzzy" on the altered card versus the same ear on the unaltered card....likely happened when removing the dark portion of the background to the right of the left ear.

[bnorth]

Here is one with a couple different parts removed. This took maybe 2 minutes and that was without the proper stuff to do it. Like fading different years/brands are easier to remove the ink on. Pretty much everything from WWII to present is pretty easy to do this on. Weirdly this chemical does not work on T206 cards.

Erasers do work but in hand they stick out like a sore thumb.

[kemdawg]

I have to agree with Ben - it does seem like there was tampering with these cards after all. The fact that the Willey doesn't have much background in the first place is what had me convinced. Thanks for the Boggs example as well. Looks like they'll end up with the rest of my junk '62's. I truly appreciate everyone's feedback here. I had fun and learned something along the way. Just when you think you know everything about cards....
Travis