Fanatics Creating Their Own Shows, How Does This Effect The Future of The Hobby?

[Seven]

https://sportscollectorsdigest.com/n...s-sports-cards

I'm sure many of us have seen this headline, if you haven't, the gist of it is that Fanatics is creating their own card/memorabilia/collectables shows, with exclusive guests that include celebrities from sports,music and pop culture.

Personally, I think this is an effort to capture the newer side of the hobby, and assuming its success, it will take away many of the breakers, and younger side of the hobby that has starting come to the National in droves.

My fear is that they will attempt to muscle out some of the traditional larger shows from certain areas. It's borderline impossible to compete with the corporate might of a company like fanatics. Thoughts?

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by Seven

https://sportscollectorsdigest.com/n...s-sports-cards

Personally, I think this is an effort to capture the newer side of the hobby, and assuming its success, it will take away many of the breakers, and younger side of the hobby that has starting come to the National in droves.

My fear is that they will attempt to muscle out some of the traditional larger shows from certain areas. It's borderline impossible to compete with the corporate might of a company like fanatics. Thoughts?

I believe that Fanatics will monetize and monopolize anything and everything they can related to sports and entertainment collectibles - shows, cards, autograph guests, memorabilia, etc.

We're already seeing this on the autograph side with 'Fanatics Exclusive' athletes commanding higher prices and restrictions being put on what and where they can sign.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

I believe that Fanatics will monetize and monopolize anything and everything they can related to sports and entertainment collectibles - shows, cards, autograph guests, memorabilia, etc.

We're already seeing this on the autograph side with 'Fanatics Exclusive' athletes commanding higher prices and restrictions being put on what and where they can sign.

I've noticed the second thing that you mentioned. One example of this, is Joe Montana, who I believe is charging something along the lines of $800 to sign his rookie card, at the National.

[mrreality68]

That is why they bought everything they bought to put everything under one umbrella to maximize the synergy to max their profits.
It could turn into a monopoly and hurt the bigger and regional Card shows or if they bring it to areas that are under served then it could be good to attract more youths to the card collection.
In the short term the greatest impact is on the modern collectors from say ‘80’s on both for the current and retired players.
Vintage will be harder to impact the market at least in the short term.

And more shows could over saturate the collection industry with only so much money and so many competing for the money

[Seven]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

That is why they bought everything they bought to put everything under one umbrella to maximize the synergy to max their profits.
It could turn into a monopoly and hurt the bigger and regional Card shows or if they bring it to areas that are under served then it could be good to attract more youths to the card collection.
In the short term the greatest impact is on the modern collectors from say ‘80’s on both for the current and retired players.
Vintage will be harder to impact the market at least in the short term.

And more shows could over saturate the collection industry with only so much money and so many competing for the money

I definitely think that it effects modern more than vintage. Which I wouldn't exactly mind, considering I feel like they're almost two different hobbies within itself.

I would say though, in terms of securing autographs whether they be on cards, or on pieces of memorabilia, the ship is quickly sailing, and people need to do it now, if they want anything, from any player in the last half century or so.

[BeanTown]

I hope they will bring shows to cities which don’t already have shows regularly in place. Not too mention the National hasn’t been run efficiently IMO in how many years? . They just go to two Northern cities over and over and then the hard to get to Atlantic City ever so often. How can there be a list of over 400 dealers wanting to get a table this year???? I hope they hear the music and make some changes.

[Lorewalker]

At first blush I think anyone or any company promoting the industry is a great thing. Fanatics is a behemoth in the industry and has sunk huge money into their concept. At this point I do not think this impacts vintage one way or another but could change the modern sector which is an area of the hobby I know nothing about and hope it remains that way.

Just as their are dozens of auction houses, large and small, who all seem to do well enough to stay afloat, I think there is room for the smaller shows and will always been a need and desire to attend them.

[ocjack]

I agree the initial impact will be on the newer collectibles. But I also agree that if it means more shows in my area (Southern California), then that's a good thing and may make the established shows rethink their location scheduling.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

I hope they will bring shows to cities which don’t already have shows regularly in place. Not too mention the National hasn’t been run efficiently IMO in how many years? . They just go to two Northern cities over and over and then the hard to get to Atlantic City ever so often. How can there be a list of over 400 dealers wanting to get a table this year???? I hope they hear the music and make some changes.

Assuming you meant there are 400 dealers wanting a table who can't get one, no wonder Fanatics wants in on that action! As for all the major changes in the hobby recently, from the influx of the hordes of younger collectors bidding up the shiny stuff to the passing of icons like Bill Huggins and Mark Jordan, it definitely feels like a changing of the guard and generations is proceeding apace. The first time I felt that was at a Richmond Tuff Stuff show about 30 years ago, when there was a separate Beanie Baby room and a young dealer next to me with nothing but brand new stuff who was doing great business selling boxes of cards to kids who would then go to a corner of the room, sit down and tear through the packs to find refractors and whatnot to sell back to the same dealer, leaving thousands of worthless cards on the floor! Man, I thought, those guys--the dealer and his customers both--really have it going, while I was humping my old stuff from show to show desperately hoping to leave with a wad big enough to make it worthwhile. But I'm 77 now, and as with so many other areas of life, I feel like I've had my time in the hobby, loved it, and hope the newer generations enjoy their time as much as I did mine. As my hero Bob Dylan wrote: "Everything passes, everything changes, just do what you think you should do."

[Bill77]

Originally Posted by Seven

I've noticed the second thing that you mentioned. One example of this, is Joe Montana, who I believe is charging something along the lines of $800 to sign his rookie card, at the National.

Joe Montana has always been expensive. He was charging $400 for his autograph 20 years ago.

[Eric72]

More than likely, it will lead to two separate and distinct hobbies:

• Those who embrace/participate in Fanatics' model of the hobby
• Those who ignore/avoid the things Fanatics puts in place

Some people will likely try to keep one foot in each side of the hobby, especially at first. In my opinion, though, they'll eventually gravitate towards one thing or the other, hyped up "events" or traditional card shows.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Bill77

Joe Montana has always been expensive. He was charging $400 for his autograph 20 years ago.

Thanks for informing me of this, Bill.

It's not surprising, considering the conversation around Montana for the length of his career, but it's still unfortunate to hear. One of my biggest gripes is the fact that these Athletes charge so much for their signatures. Of course they are in high demand, but you price out a good portion of the population.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

I hope they will bring shows to cities which don’t already have shows regularly in place. Not too mention the National hasn’t been run efficiently IMO in how many years? . They just go to two Northern cities over and over and then the hard to get to Atlantic City ever so often. How can there be a list of over 400 dealers wanting to get a table this year???? I hope they hear the music and make some changes.

Absolutely agree. There is a giant show at Anaheim Labor Day Weekend. I will be setting up there.

[packs]

I think they will learn an old lesson: there isn't a lot of money in card shows and that's why there aren't a lot of them.

[jingram058]

For a majority of folks on net54, it will be great. It will be all about newer stuff, but the old school will go along for the ride. All about grading and money.

For the minority raw collectors, buyers, sellers, traders, it won't matter.

[commishbob]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

I believe that Fanatics will monetize and monopolize anything and everything they can related to sports and entertainment collectibles - shows, cards, autograph guests, memorabilia, etc.

We're already seeing this on the autograph side with 'Fanatics Exclusive' athletes commanding higher prices and restrictions being put on what and where they can sign.

Yup. They will probably move to acquiring auction houses next.

[puckpaul]

The collector shows/convention market has been in need of professionalism for a long time, so let’s see if this can be a good thing…more and bigger and better shows in more places. On the other hand, not a hige fan of what Fanatics has been doing, so less hopeful about it given that.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by packs

I think they will learn an old lesson: there isn't a lot of money in card shows and that's why there aren't a lot of them.

Concur on that. Everything has moved online (even older dealers are now selling online).

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Concur on that. Everything has moved online (even older dealers are now selling online).

Horror conventions are huge money. There are plenty of people out there looking to meet their idols. Also shows like shops are having a resurgence look at the new Burbank show, Dallas is an event now every time they have it, rosemont still is a good spot and Philly has been gang busters the last few years. While a lot has moved online shows still have their appeal. They aren’t close to as dead as they were a decade ago.

[packs]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Horror conventions are huge money. There are plenty of people out there looking to meet their idols. Also shows like shops are having a resurgence look at the new Burbank show, Dallas is an event now every time they have it, rosemont still is a good spot and Philly has been gang busters the last few years. While a lot has mixed online shows still have their appeal. They aren’t close to as dead as they were a decade ago.

Yeah but these are one off events. I get the impression this announcement is about volume and regularity.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by Eric72

More than likely, it will lead to two separate and distinct hobbies:

• Those who embrace/participate in Fanatics' model of the hobby
• Those who ignore/avoid the things Fanatics puts in place

Some people will likely try to keep one foot in each side of the hobby, especially at first. In my opinion, though, they'll eventually gravitate towards one thing or the other, hyped up "events" or traditional card shows.

Agreed. The Fanatics marketing assumption seems to be that the hobby explosion over the past three years will continue to grow exponentially. The company should be doing all it can to help the remaining brick and mortar card store owners and show promoters. Fanatics wants to control the main distribution points of product (ex. Amazon, Target, Walmart). Fanatics does have quite the roster of exclusive athletes. I don't see how this hurts vintage card collectors.

I had this same feeling when Krause publications bought Tuff-Stuff and promised to continue having shows. Krause just wanted to sell magazines. Fanatics is a different beast.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Horror conventions are huge money. There are plenty of people out there looking to meet their idols. Also shows like shops are having a resurgence look at the new Burbank show, Dallas is an event now every time they have it, rosemont still is a good spot and Philly has been gang busters the last few years. While a lot has moved online shows still have their appeal. They aren’t close to as dead as they were a decade ago.

Yes, the resurgence of the Philly show after Hunt's almost killed it with their table pricing and other demands after they bought it from Bob Schmierer has been something to watch. Now it will be interesting to see if the younger generations flocking to shows are actual collectors or just the latest iteration of the "Becketteers" of decades past looking for treasures to flip and make quick bucks.

[ocjack]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Absolutely agree. There is a giant show at Anaheim Labor Day Weekend. I will be setting up there.

Thanks for letting me know about the Anaheim Show. I live in Orange County and had not heard or seen any advertising for the show. But I was able to finally find info for the show on-line and will be definitely attending. Finally, something to look forward to!

[JustinD]

The more I hear and see the actions of Fanatics, the more I feel they will be a great stock short investment for the near future.

Talk about stupid recycled Hunt brother level ideas...

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by packs

Yeah but these are one off events. I get the impression this announcement is about volume and regularity.

They are not one off events. Maybe once a year but they have them every year in the same cities usually same locations. I have friends that attend these things regularly. They mostly are not one time events. Of course the ones that fail miserably may only be held once. And none of the card shows mentioned are one off events either so not sure why you are calling one off events.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by packs

I think they will learn an old lesson: there isn't a lot of money in card shows and that's why there aren't a lot of them.

That's not really accurate.

Card shows died because of online venues and have resurged in part because of online venues. Costs and restrictions online creep up and a table fee starts looking pretty good by comparison. I'm in the eBay punishment zone right now because I accidentally double-listed several cards and had to cancel the sales. I am now paying 19.5% of the sum of the closing price and shipping and sales tax, plus $0.30 per sale, as my eBay fees. Destroyed the market niche I was carving out for myself. Actually, cheaper to consign to an AH if I can get a zero-commission deal.

I ran some shows a decade ago. It takes a few shows to get your business model ironed out but once you do, the potential is there for a profitable endeavor, especially with the fevered market today. Our first two shows lost money, the last one was a break-even event. With some cost-cutting, I think we could have gotten it profitable. With the atmosphere today, I definitely think there is a profitable model out there. If I had the time, I would absolutely try it again. Heck, the National is a for-profit event; it is how the show owners make a living.

[packs]

When I was growing up there was a monthly card show in my hometown. There hasn't been one there for 20 years and it's not because of table fees. It's because the interested population dried up.

Originally Posted by glynparson

They are not one off events. Maybe once a year but they have them every year in the same cities usually same locations. I have friends that attend these things regularly. They mostly are not one time events. Of course the ones that fail miserably may only be held once. And none of the card shows mentioned are one off events either so not sure why you are calling one off events.

A once a year event is a one off event.

[Keith H. Thompson]

the new shows, both new and old. For example, I'm 92, my sons are 59 and 61 years old, and we have never had a single item graded. We grew up buying boxes at the local stationery store and local card shops and kept buying until we had completed two sets each. We bought them because we loved baseball. My wife and I had to monitor their sleep time because they would sort through their cards after they had presumably gone to bed and read the backs of the cards with flashlights.

fast forward to last week's All Star Game.

My oldest son has three children. Twin girls 4th grade. Boy aged 6. Last week the family bought a strip of two tickets for all the events at the All-Star game in Seattle. The Convention activities include many promotions by Card producers, and they give out plenty of shiny pack stuff. Poppy and Sami love this, apparently for all the right reasons, meaning that they are fascinated by the cards themselves and spent a lot of time trading and comparing with other kids doing the same thing. Thaddeus can tell you the names of every San Diego Padres player and his batting average (six years old) It remains to be seen how they will react when they learn you have to buy cards, but I have hopes.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Eric72

More than likely, it will lead to two separate and distinct hobbies:

• Those who embrace/participate in Fanatics' model of the hobby
• Those who ignore/avoid the things Fanatics puts in place

A more concise (and far more polite) version of what I would have said.

Those who gravitate to modern sparkliness and pathetic Sharpie scribbles can all form a separate camp elsewhere and it would be a dream come true. If any of them tire of the rigmarole, then I'd happily welcome them over to the vintage side. All of what Fanatics offers has thus far been of no personal use and had no impact on my area of the hobby as I utilize it. Happy to keep it that way.

[Exhibitman]

I read the story on the Fanatics plan and it doesn't really sound like much of a card show. More like Comicon, frankly, with a big component of sales of Fanatics products and services and the collector-dealer trading floor as an afterthought at best. They retained IMG, which does the Mint Collective in Las Vegas, to run it. I had little interest in that and don't see much to be interested in at the Fanatics planned events either.

We really have entered an era of divergence between vintage collecting and the modern 'experience' and Fanatics' stuff doesn't seemed geared towards vintage collectors. Makes business sense, I guess, since Fanatics can't create more vintage cards but it can create and market the next Biggest Best Ever Thing at will.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I read the story on the Fanatics plan and it doesn't really sound like much of a card show. More like Comicon, frankly, with a big component of sales of Fanatics products and services and the collector-dealer trading floor as an afterthought at best. They retained IMG, which does the Mint Collective in Las Vegas, to run it. I had little interest in that and don't see much to be interested in at the Fanatics planned events either.

We really have entered an era of divergence between vintage collecting and the modern 'experience' and Fanatics' stuff doesn't seemed geared towards vintage collectors. Makes business sense, I guess, since Fanatics can't create more vintage cards but it can create and market the next Biggest Best Ever Thing at will.

No clue what they are doing. I just know they are throwing billions into the industry but your analysis above, if accurate, is why this will not impact smaller local shows. They sound like they are catering to another part of the industry.

[bigfanNY]

I am decidedly on the side of folks collecting anything sports related will definitely benifit vintage down the road. More collecting memories now for 8 to 18 year olds means a healthy hobby when they are in their peak earning years.
So far my only gripe with Fanatics is that they restrict their athletes from signing tickets. As for big corporate shows with top athletes signing it sounds like a great way to introduce my grandkids to collecting. In a few years I can definitely see them asking to go to Comicon to meet Captin America ( Chris Evans is going to be at NY this year fee around $260). I hope they ask to go to the Fanatics Experience to meet their favorite players as well.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by commishbob

Yup. They will probably move to acquiring auction houses next.

They've already acquired PWCC.

[Tony Gordon]

Funny that SCD would get that article wrong because Fanatics purchased SCD’s old Chicago Sportsfest show many years ago and moved it from Schaumburg to Rosemont. Prior, Fanatics purchased the Chicago Sun-Times show, renamed it Fanatics Authentics Sports Spectacular. They ran several Sports Spectacular shows in Florida and in Boston as well.

So Fanatics did a shite job with those shows. Many dealers, such as myself, dropped out. I believe it was employees from Fanatics that purchased the Sports Spectacular. I could be wrong and quite possibly Fanatics still runs the show. Anyway the Chicago Sports Spectacular has gotten much better these past few years and I started to set up again. However, booth fees have gone way up. I’m not sure if I’m setting up at their March show. They may have priced me out.

The gist of the story is that Fanatics is not new to operating card shows. Based on their history operating shows, I do not expect their new card show wing to dazzle anybody.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Tony Gordon

Funny that SCD would get that article wrong because Fanatics purchased SCD’s old Chicago Sportsfest show many years ago and moved it from Schaumburg to Rosemont. Prior, Fanatics purchased the Chicago Sun-Times show, renamed it Fanatics Authentics Sports Spectacular. They ran several Sports Spectacular shows in Florida and in Boston as well.

So Fanatics did a shite job with those shows. Many dealers, such as myself, dropped out. I believe it was employees from Fanatics that purchased the Sports Spectacular. I could be wrong and quite possibly Fanatics still runs the show. Anyway the Chicago Sports Spectacular has gotten much better these past few years and I started to set up again. However, booth fees have gone way up. I’m not sure if I’m setting up at their March show. They may have priced me out.

The gist of the story is that Fanatics is not new to operating card shows. Based on their history operating shows, I do not expect their new card show wing to dazzle anybody.

What so many promoters lose sight of is "content first", I promoted a music festival for 25 years, cardinal rule was to have a compelling line up or content.
Everybody thinks this stuff is easy, it ain't. Squeezing your content providers is not the way. I'd posit a creative business model that was based on sales might be better, base rate for dealers and a percentage of gross sales to get rid of the museum Nancys, reward high net buyers with premium access/discounts etc.
Think Vegas, reward the money spenders and content providers, move it up the exclusive ladder and ditch the tire kickers, it's not a hard concept just takes some creativity.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

I am decidedly on the side of folks collecting anything sports related will definitely benifit vintage down the road. More collecting memories now for 8 to 18 year olds means a healthy hobby when they are in their peak earning years.

I completely agree. New cards have always been the gateway drug to older cards. If you have that collector gene and you see the old stuff, you will get addicted. My point was more on the lines of my not seeing much of interest to me at a Comicon-style event. Though I have to cop to attending a few Star Trek conventions back in the day, even stood in line for an hour to meet James Doohan and made a fanboy ass of myself.

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by packs

When I was growing up there was a monthly card show in my hometown. There hasn't been one there for 20 years and it's not because of table fees. It's because the interested population dried up.



A once a year event is a one off event.

One off to me is one and done. So what’s wrong with a once a year event per location? That’s plenty for many locales. And the bigger cities will have more than one. I don’t get what your trying to say is a negative to this?

[packs]

Originally Posted by glynparson

One off to me is one and done. So what’s wrong with a once a year event per location? That’s plenty for many locales. And the bigger cities will have more than one. I don’t get what your trying to say is a negative to this?

I didn't say it was negative I said I didn't think that was the model Fanatics was going for. Y

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by glynparson

One off to me is one and done...

I agree. "One off" implies a happening that occurs only once and is not repeated.

A once a year event is called an "annual" event.

[chalupacollects]

The thinking at Fanatics is to run as much as they can. They went and signed Wemby and the 3 top QB’s in the NFL draft mainly so Panini can’t offer RPAs in upcoming products. Also the major card distributors just had to sign an agreement that they can’t and won’t sell to breakers or lose allocations. Lastly, one of their shows will be set to coincide with the current national show. Their leadership is driven…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sb1]

Originally Posted by packs

Yeah but these are one off events. I get the impression this announcement is about volume and regularity.

They have the Dallas Card show every 7-8 weeks, thousands of people from every corner of the country and hundreds upon hundreds of new people every show.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

Their leadership is driven…

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by Eric72

More than likely, it will lead to two separate and distinct hobbies:

• Those who embrace/participate in Fanatics' model of the hobby
• Those who ignore/avoid the things Fanatics puts in place

Some people will likely try to keep one foot in each side of the hobby, especially at first. In my opinion, though, they'll eventually gravitate towards one thing or the other, hyped up "events" or traditional card shows.

From this point on, please refrain from using the words 'Fanatics' and 'Hobby' in the same sentence. Fanatics has no interest in being involved in a hobby. Their only interest is in a commodity based business where they see unexploited potential for profit and growth. Much like the major card manufacturers during the spin up to the junk wax era.

Crap, I just broke my own rule.

[eastonfalcon19]

Not so much on the card side but I went to the Philly show in May and had a game used baseball from Steve Carlton's 319th win. It has provenance and a letter from MEARS. The handler would not let Steve add a Game Used inscription or even the date of the game. The excuse I got was they could get sued for adding that inscription. I guess Fanatics doesn't allow any Game Used inscriptions on items.

[Casey2296]

Fanatics is not good for this hobby, much like Walmart was not good for local businesses when they came to town. It's a tired story filled with egos, power and money. Reminds me of that cartoon my kids watched when they were kids, Pinky and the Brain, two rats who were trying to "take over the world".

This is the same outfit that spent millions pumping NFT's to the masses, how many naive investors listened to them and lost money.

Same schtick as Goldin/West just a fancier wrapper.

Makes me appreciate the old school collectors and net54 even more.

[Lobo Aullando]

So, which will happen first?

1. The market hits a trough, the returns are never enough for investors, and they're not able to really monopolize things (not for lack of trying).
2. They become a vertically integrated monopoly and draw an antitrust lawsuit.

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

The thinking at Fanatics is to run as much as they can. They went and signed Wemby and the 3 top QB’s in the NFL draft mainly so Panini can’t offer RPAs in upcoming products. Also the major card distributors just had to sign an agreement that they can’t and won’t sell to breakers or lose allocations.

[midmo]

Where in the heck do you live? I go to at least 2 shows a month. They are everywhere these days.

Originally Posted by packs

When I was growing up there was a monthly card show in my hometown. There hasn't been one there for 20 years and it's not because of table fees. It's because the interested population dried up.



A once a year event is a one off event.

[Rich Klein]

In simple terms, those Fanatics shows will not affect the people on this board very much

Rich

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I agree. "One off" implies a happening that occurs only once and is not repeated.

A once a year event is called an "annual" event.

That’s because we are correct Eric and he is wrong . Just google the definition of one off it clearly says one and done. That means one and done it doesn’t mean once a year.

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

From this point on, please refrain from using the words 'Fanatics' and 'Hobby' in the same sentence. Fanatics has no interest in being involved in a hobby. Their only interest is in a commodity based business where they see unexploited potential for profit and growth. Much like the major card manufacturers during the spin up to the junk wax era.

Crap, I just broke my own rule.

They are a business I expect a business to act like a business especially one that has investors giving them money. They are obligated to treat it like a business.