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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Modern Baseball Cards Forum (1980-Present)

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  #1  
Old 04-25-2015, 07:57 PM
hoebob69 hoebob69 is offline
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Default 1989 fleer Randy Johnson

Ok so I've just kind of gotten into collecting the famous Fleer error cards. The Rick face card speaks for itself but up until recently I didn't really know much about the Randy Johnson Marlboro rookie. I've made quiet a few purchases of this card recently,probably 30 or so,some are graded and some aren't. It's really hard to tell which variations are which through a picture for these for some reason. Well I just got a batch In and I have found a couple different things on a couple of the cards that I was hoping someone could explain. One of them is the completely blacked out version except there is a small green dot in the middle of the right border near where the cowboy would be. The other is the blacked out version but on the red stripe of the shoulder on the uniform nearest to the sign is a yellow circle. I bought them off ebay so I know theres always a chance of tampering but I cant find much on the internet so I was hoping someone else knew.
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  #2  
Old 04-25-2015, 09:12 PM
jacksoncoupage jacksoncoupage is offline
Dylan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoebob69 View Post
but I cant find much on the internet so I was hoping someone else knew.
Not sure how you missed it but the top result when you google search "1989 Fleer Randy Johnson Marlboro" is my extensive blog on them from a few years ago. The comments section is filled with information too.

https://junkwaxgems.wordpress.com/20...ro-variations/

There are plenty of arguments for variance within the variations themselves but this gives a rundown of the most frequently found versions. I do not count print dot and fish eye or stray ink dots (green dot, etc) as recognizable varieties in the cataloging of these cards as these dots can be found across the card in every place imaginable and the same goes for every other card in the set.
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  #3  
Old 04-26-2015, 06:44 AM
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bnorth bnorth is offline
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Yes they are very hard to tell what version you are buying off the net because they just don't scan or take pictures well and several are very close to one another in looks.

I have close to 20 different versions plus countless print errors. Post a picture and I will do my best to tell you what version it is.

I am still looking for a clear sign version or even a picture of one. I have seen a few altered ones including one in a PSA slab but never a real one.

A big +1 on Dylan having a great junk era error web site. I use it regularly and am glad he keeps it going.
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  #4  
Old 04-26-2015, 07:01 AM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
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A big +1 on Dylan having a great junk era error web site. I use it regularly and am glad he keeps it going.[/QUOTE]

+ 2
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  #5  
Old 04-26-2015, 09:10 AM
hoebob69 hoebob69 is offline
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Oh I've seen the article numerous times,but like you said it only covers certain versions. When I get home I'll take a picture and show you. But so far I've not seen a card on the web or in person that has the yellow dot on the uniform and I have two!
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  #6  
Old 04-26-2015, 09:36 AM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
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Default Variants

I collect variants and like pursuing them if they are recurring, but have come to believe that if you pick out any card in any set and search long enough you will eventually find a printing flaw of some kind.

I also think on cards like this one and the Ripken..and even on cards like the Campos black star, many of the variants out there are post production creations.

Nevertheless, I have several versions of both
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  #7  
Old 04-26-2015, 11:01 AM
jacksoncoupage jacksoncoupage is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoebob69 View Post
Oh I've seen the article numerous times,but like you said it only covers certain versions. When I get home I'll take a picture and show you. But so far I've not seen a card on the web or in person that has the yellow dot on the uniform and I have two!
Please post scans when you can!

As for the yellow dot, that is a very common print flaw occurrence. This is not something that will generally be given a separate listing in a catalog as there are so many types of these stray mark flaws: yellow dot, white dot, pink dot, black dot...dot on uniform, in name, over sign area, in border...etc etc. None of them are design changes by Fleer. To collect every one can be fun, for certain, but I will never list them on my site as running changes to the card in effort to correct the signage. They are simply printing accidents.

And that said, if the same print flaw (ie, a border break or stray black line) happens in the same spot for a large enough chunk of the printing, then I consider those worthy of catalog or at the very least, notation as they are commonly known as RPD: recurring print defects.
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  #8  
Old 08-29-2015, 12:08 PM
TATSR TATSR is offline
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Thanks Dylan for the very cool Johnson page. I recently found this. It appears to have a green tint and bubble. Any guesses as to what PSA what label it? Ad or partially obscured?

Thanks,
Tom

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  #9  
Old 08-29-2015, 01:48 PM
TATSR TATSR is offline
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Close up
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  #10  
Old 09-01-2015, 10:39 AM
jacksoncoupage jacksoncoupage is offline
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I recently posted this on another board.

Because there are so many different correction attempts, PSA has taken the lazy route and divided them all into 3 categories and even those are three are cross-contaminated at this point.

I have examples like yours in PSA 9 holders that should get the "partially obscured" descriptor but are labeled "completely blacked out" so it's a roll of the dice with them.

When it comes to this card, there are strong arguments to be made that Fleer made many changes to the card between the darkest tinting over the sign and the full blackout background (the final version that has a clean, solid black background). Most collectors argue this is ink variance but I am fairly certain there are legitimate, albeit very similar, changes to the background. This portion of the card's production run is responsible for a lot of the confusion surrounding the card.

This is the breakdown, remember there are variances between them but this is the gist:

-Clear sign (one known copy)
-Visible sign, faint haze/dark tint over sign
-Visible sign, faint haze/dark tint over sign, black bar or strip through MARLBORO
-Visible sign, faint haze/dark red tint over sign, black scribble over MARLBORO
-Visible sign, faint haze/dark green tint over sign, black scribble over MARLBORO
-Semi-visible sign, heavy tint over sign, bubble in upper sign, dark red tint
-Semi-visible sign, heavy tint over sign, no bubble, dark red tint
-Semi-visible sign, heavy tint over sign, bubble in upper sign, dark green tint
-Semi-visible sign, heavy tint over sign, no bubble, dark green tint
-Semi-visible sign, heavy tint over sign, no bubble, dark green tint, black bar or strip through MARLBORO
-Boxed sign, heavy red tint over sign, bubble in upper sign
-Boxed sign, heavy green tint over sign, bubble in upper sign
-Boxed sign, heavy red tint over sign, no bubble
-Boxed sign, heavy green tint over sign, no bubble
-Solid black background, sign appears to be digitally edited - no gap between Johnson's ear and fence/billboard in background.

Again, there are likely versions that exist between these listed here but thisa rundown of the types most likely to be found. Also note that the final corrected version (solid black background) is often affected by yellow/green print dots of various quantity and size but as with most print dots, they are random and therefore not cataloged by me as official running changes to the card.
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  #11  
Old 09-03-2015, 06:11 AM
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bnorth bnorth is offline
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Dylan have you seen the clear sign one in hand? I have only seen pics of the one in the PSA slab and it looks altered to me.

I say it looks altered because the only part of the sign that is clear is the white part. The rest of the sign looks exactly like the lightest red tint version. I would think if it was real and unaltered the whole sign would be nice and clear not just the part that can easily be made clear.
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  #12  
Old 09-04-2015, 12:17 AM
jacksoncoupage jacksoncoupage is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
Dylan have you seen the clear sign one in hand? I have only seen pics of the one in the PSA slab and it looks altered to me.

I say it looks altered because the only part of the sign that is clear is the white part. The rest of the sign looks exactly like the lightest red tint version. I would think if it was real and unaltered the whole sign would be nice and clear not just the part that can easily be made clear.
No, I have never seen one in person. In fact, the only clear example I have seen is the one at the bottom of my blog post on them and I don't know if it's in a holder or not. I recall from emailing with the guy that it hadn't been slabbed but that was 5-6 years ago.

I have always been skeptical on it but also open minded to the possibility of a clear version existing as the earliest versions appear to have received some tinting to mask the sign. So likely somewhere, even if only in pre-production samples, a clear version would exist. That and the fact that only a few copies of the Checklists with positions have been confirmed to exist tells me there are 1989 Fleer varieties produced in extremely low numbers.
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  #13  
Old 01-29-2016, 08:52 AM
Hatorade Hatorade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage View Post
When it comes to this card, there are strong arguments to be made that Fleer made many changes to the card between the darkest tinting over the sign and the full blackout background (the final version that has a clean, solid black background). Most collectors argue this is ink variance but I am fairly certain there are legitimate, albeit very similar, changes to the background. This portion of the card's production run is responsible for a lot of the confusion surrounding the card.
There is a feature that isn't on any of the common cards (Full blackout background) that I've seen, but that is on every one of the error cards I have(Over 1000 and climbing) that I think could put to rest any claims that ink variance is the difference and not wholesale changes Fleer made to the editing process of card. If PSA would use this it could at least stop them from labeling some of the heavily tented errors as Completely Blacked Out. Unfortunately, the Ad On Scoreboard and Ad Partially Obscured labels will still be butchered by them.
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Old 01-29-2016, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatorade View Post
There is a feature that isn't on any of the common cards (Full blackout background) that I've seen, but that is on every one of the error cards I have(Over 1000 and climbing) that I think could put to rest any claims that ink variance is the difference and not wholesale changes Fleer made to the editing process of card. If PSA would use this it could at least stop them from labeling some of the heavily tented errors as Completely Blacked Out. Unfortunately, the Ad On Scoreboard and Ad Partially Obscured labels will still be butchered by them.
Welcome to the forum! Glad someone besides myself hoards the error versions. I am guessing you are talking the little red swirl on the non blacked out versions.
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  #15  
Old 02-15-2018, 12:14 AM
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This is great, thank you

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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