1966 or 68 Deckle Proofs

[David W]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160026928526...84.m1438.l2648


Did anyone follow this ebay auction that did not sell?

Anyone know anything about these?

I know I've never seen them before, but SGC apparently had enough faith they were real to slab them.

[sflayank]

real and overpriced by bmw by about 2400

[Leon]

a quick search on ebay shows many proofs in the 20-100 range. I don't know if there is anything special about the one posted..

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...0deckle&_sop=3





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[nolemmings]

These appear to be from a set that was never issued, unlike the '69 and '74 deckles. Although the Yaz image is the same as found in the '69 deckle set, the other players are not so found, and the presence of Alomar in a Milwaukee Braves uniform when he last played there in 1966 is perhaps why seller is selling it as a 1966 set. It may be from 1965 as Woodeshick was traded from Houston to St. Louis during that season and is shown wearing an airbrushed cap. Seems to me that by '66 the Houston team was the Astros and the Braves were in Atlanta, such that ye olde airbrush would have hit the Alomar and Adlesh cards too if '66 was the year of production. The SGC date of '68 is likely wrong, not only for the above reasons but because Woodeshick was done in 1967, released in October by the Cardinals. Puzzling is the Bob Johnson Rochester Red Wings card, as he last played there in 1961.

Neat cards in any event.

Edited to add that Adlesh's hat is airbrushed too, although Alomar's Milwaukee hat is not. Adlesh is wearing an Astros uniform, meaning the photo is post-1964.

[ALR-bishop]

There are 3 different 1968 Deckle proof sheets of the same 9 players. Yaz is the only one to appear in the 69 set. The sheets differ some in player placement but the main difference is the color of the autos...red, blue and black. Blue is apparently the scacest. I have the 3 sheets, here are 2. In full sheet form they are tough to find. I am not a graded card guy, but if this Yaz is in the PSA master registry set, it would be a fairly tough one. If it is in the master list and the list includes all 3 color autos, that would really be tough

[IMG]http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539
/img009.jpg?t=1336321118[/IMG]

[ALR-bishop]

[David W]

Al,

Those sheets are interesting in that the players are in different locations on the sheet, albeit in the same row.

Also, the selection of a minor league player is unusual.

Thanks for the pix.

[nolemmings]

I would still like to know how those are dated to 1968, given that a couple of players had changed teams before then and one was essentially out of baseball.

[ALR-bishop]

I have no personal knowledge, that is just the way they are listed in the Standard Catalog. Maybe Bob Lemke has more info. I assume because they were apparently never issued, there are only 9, they come on 3 different sheets, and it would not make sense they came out after the 69 set, although maybe they were also produced in 69.

As far as uniforms and playing status, Topps screwed those up many a time and often used pictures several years old that they then airbrushed. The 1969 main set itself, in the first several series, is full of such examples, apparently due to both expansion and the head to head between Topps and Marvin Miller over a new license agreement for future player photos. The later series in that set do have new photos, apparently after an agreement was reached with Miller.

My favorite though is the 1973 set of 1953 Reprints in which 3 of only 8 players are misidentified

[sflayank]

nice al
i only have the black sheet
u have doubles
?
larry

[nolemmings]

Thanks for the info Al. While you're probably right, I'm going to remain a little skeptical for the time being--maybe Bob Lemke can shed some more light on these. BTW, it was my understanding that Marvin Miller, while he had lots of fish to fry with MLB in '69, had already negotiated a deal with Topps in 1968. Of course maybe it was later in the year and after these "proofs" were made.

I know Topps was fond of the airbrush and routinely used old photos. Still, I'm curious why they would include Woodeshick when he was out of baseball after 1967--I'm pretty sure they didn't include him in the regular '68 set. I also find it strange they would airbrush one of the cards (Woodeschick) but no other*. In addition, you might think they would have done all airbrushing before putting on the facsimile signatures. Finally, 5 of the 9 subjects are shown with the wrong team and another is out of baseball if 1968 is the right year-- to me that all seems a little odd, but hey, what do I know.

* I mistakenly claimed in my earlier post that Adlesh's cap was airbrushed--I forgot that he was wearing it backwards and thus it would show no logo.

[ALR-bishop]

Tod-- you could easily be right that these sheets were produced prior to 68. I think on several Topp test or odd ball items listed in SCD the date given is often a best guess

[Bob Lemke]

You're right about some sets dates being best guesses.

I don't know on what basis the 1968 date was attributed. It may have been on the word of whomever supplied the photo/information, perhaps Richard Gelman or Larry Fritsch.

Coincidentally, I just ran across my own example of the uncut sheet while sifting through a box of stuff this morning that I'm planning to sell. I'll try to remember to list it on the B/S/T forum later this weekend.

[toppcat]

I am thinking Topps just used some at hand B&W pix for the proofs; they seem more designed to determine what color autograph would look best and not necessarily to display players intended to be in the set. Topps would often use whatever was "lying around" for in house tests and the timeline if they were testing for 1969 would have been in the fall of 1968 for the deckles.

[ALR-bishop]

Bob--Larry S mentioned in here that he is looking for a blue or red if yours happens to be one of those two

[nolemmings]

Thanks for the info guys.

[Bob Lemke]

Mine is the blue-autograph version. I've posted it on the B/S/T.

I agree with David's reasoning on how this sheet came to exist . . . Topps using a variety of "old" photos to test how various color autos would show up on white jerseys, grass, dirt, etc.

[ALR-bishop]

As I mentioned earlier, the first 4 series of the 69 set itself are full of older photos on capless or airbrushed players. Topps did not get its new license agreement with Marvin Miller until after the set was well under way, so I think they were stuck with old photos for part of 68 and 69