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  #1  
Old 09-26-2003, 11:53 AM
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Default T-206 survey

Posted By: Mike (18colt)

A few years back, I understand that a T-206 survey took place, encompassing over 400,000 T-206 cards.

Anyone know what issue of VCBC it came from, or does anyone have a copy of the results (or a website the results are posted)?

I'm wondering how the people on this page felt about it. Accurate/inaccurate? Large enough sample size? That sort of thing.

Finally, I think out of 433,000+ cards, only 29 had Drum backs. I wonder how many of the 29 this board owns. I'll start the count -- I have 2.

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  #2  
Old 09-26-2003, 12:41 PM
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Posted By: runscott

If you ask people how many of each t206 back they have had, that may simply idicate collecting preferences - I personally have had a much higher percentage of difficult backs, but that was by choice. Also, most cards have passed through several owners, the rarer ones being much more likely to have passed through the hands of multiple board members or other serious collectors, while commons may have had an equal number of owners, but are more likely to have been passed around among people who are less serious and never saw the survey...so how many times is each rare card back represented in the survey?

It may very well be the best way to conduct the survey, given limitations, and certainly it was a worthwhile effort.

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  #3  
Old 09-26-2003, 02:02 PM
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Posted By: Brian Weisner


Hi Mike
The results of the study conducted by Art and Doug can be found in ISSUE 26 of VCBC. The study is ongoing and to date we know of 55 different poses which have been seen with a Drum back. Scans are being kept of each card to document there existence as well as current location if possible. I have 4 at the moment, but hope to add others. Be well Brian

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  #4  
Old 09-26-2003, 03:28 PM
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Posted By: Art M.

I personally conducted a T206 survey from 1996 to 1999 or so where I asked collectors and dealers from around the country about specific T206 back brands that they own or have owned in the past. Below is the survey information that appeared in the VCBC magazine.
The survey that Brian mentions is an on-going study of confirmed front/back combinations.
Art
******************************

T206 Back Survey
During the time period from the fall of 1997 through the end of 1999, the authors (Art Martineau actually) conducted a T206 back survey for the purpose of validating the relative rarity of the various backs. Top collectors, dealers, and hobby veterans were contacted with a questionnaire asking about specific back types in their collections, along with backs they had previously owned. A total of 45 individuals participated in this survey and 437,553 T206 cards were studied. The six toughest back types were included in this survey and the results follow.

This study clearly corroborates our current ranking of backs in order of rarity. Out of a total of 437,553 cards the following were noted:
1. Broad Leaf, 460 subjects – 8 cards (approximately 1 in every 54,694 cards)
2. Drum, 350 subjects – 29 cards (approximately 1 in every 15,088 cards)
3. Uzit– 63 cards (approximately 1 in every 6,945 cards)
4. Lenox (no designation as to brown or black) – 112 cards (approximately 1 in every 3,907 cards)
5. Broad Leaf, 350 subjects – 160 cards (approximately 1 in every 2,735 cards)
6. Carolina Brights – 368 cards (approximately 1 in every 1,189 cards)

The only surprise was probably the Broad Leaf 460. This is most likely due to the fact that many back collectors are more properly categorized as “brand” collectors. Generically the Drum brand back is definitely rarer than the Broad Leaf, but the Broad Leaf 460 series is considerably rarer as a distinct back.

One back excluded from the survey was the Ty Cobb back. With only 13 examples known; this brand is unquestionably the rarest.

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  #5  
Old 09-26-2003, 07:51 PM
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Posted By: brian p

Great information on the T206 set for collectors, but a burning question arises--45 collectors/dealers with 437,000 cards? That is almost 10,000 cards per person. Are there really that many folks out there with accumulations in the tens of thousands? And it was mentioned that the survey included current and former inventory of these people. Obviously this is going to cause some overlap due to cards that at one time belonged to one owner that will also now show up in anothers inventory.

And another question--are we ever going to see that T206 book as promised a couple of years ago, or should we just forget about it?

Brian

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  #6  
Old 09-27-2003, 07:22 AM
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Posted By: Mike (18colt)

The answers so far have led me to ask more questions. Here they are:

Who's keeping the scans of the Drum cards?

Where would I (or anyone else) send scans of the cards that I have?

Of the 55 poses recorded thus far, how many of them have more than one known example?

Is this Drum list available anywhere online? If not, perhaps an ongoing site where cards on record can be stored and added would be a nice development (perhaps an addition to the t206museum site?).

And finally, I think it was a Cobb with a Drum back that was found to be altered (a Drum back added to a Cobb card) that was ultimately destroyed. Do we know which legitimate pose was eliminated when this bogus card was produced?

Thanks for the answers.

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  #7  
Old 09-30-2003, 02:15 PM
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Posted By: Mike (18colt)

See my prior post on this thread. Help!

The big question is where to send Drum scans for documenting purposes (whoever is tracking Drums).

Thanks for all of the help.

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  #8  
Old 10-01-2003, 11:56 AM
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Posted By: JamesWalkerJr

If anyone wants to email me any front and back scans for the T206, T205, or T207 set, I will put together some type of report. Scarcity does not matter.

And Mike (colt18), according to the SGC Registry, the following T206 Drum backs that have been graded:

Harry Hinchman - SGC 30
Walter Johnson (version unknown, according to the T206 Monster, only the Pitching is available) - SGC 50

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  #9  
Old 10-01-2003, 12:38 PM
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Posted By: leon

I was looking through some old Mastro catalogues last night and did see a red background T206 Cobby with a Drum back...and it was in a PSA 3 holder.....so there is at least that one out there....which if ya'll remember a while back we had questions on, concerning one being sold on ebay......regards all

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  #10  
Old 10-03-2003, 12:06 AM
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Posted By: T206museum

Collectors,

Due to high demand of requests, we have setup a email address "database@t206museum.com" for you guys to upload rare backs scans to us. We will create a page and stats table for each diff backs along with scans.
If you own those cards and would like to have your name refer to those scans please say so in the email.
Hopefully our little effort could help us understand more our beloved t206 set.

Regards,
T206museum

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  #11  
Old 10-03-2003, 01:26 AM
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Posted By: MW

T206museum,

Just wondering who you are. I've always enjoyed your site but I've never been able to put a name to it.

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  #12  
Old 10-03-2003, 06:06 AM
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Posted By: runscott

I sent scans of some strange t206 cards to t206museum, asking for information. Their response was to ask me if I wanted to sell the cards - they never did give me any help with the cards, and there was never a name on any of their correspondence.

I suspect that this latest ANONYMOUS post is another ploy to gain easy access to cards "they" want for their own collection or for re-sell.

Also, Art's t206 backs survey was much more thorough and accurate than the t206museum backs information. I used to have the t206 backs multiplier page printed and taped to the inside of my SCBC - I replaced it with Art's info from VCBC as soon as I discovered it.

Having said that, their site is a great starting place for beginning t206 collectors.

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  #13  
Old 10-03-2003, 01:59 PM
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Posted By: T206museum

runscott,

First of all, we apologize for the misunderstanding and confusion.

You could not believe how many emails we received everyday regarding info of identifing reprints on eBay, price estimation of their cards, excitment emails after purchasing a $25,000 Wagner for $1 from flea market....etc. Most people just don't even bother to look for the existing info on our site before sending in their emails. T206museum.com is just a "tiny" non-profit site and we are spending our own time answering all those emails everyday and sometimes get frustrated. We have absolutely no mean of asking people selling their collections to us after they sent us scans/questions. Believe it or not, the most emails that we got everyday are asking us to hook them up with buyers of their cards/collections since they don't want to sell their cards cheap on eBay. And we might have thought you are one of those collectors who is looking for a buyer. We are collectors too but we have NEVER force or threaten anyone to sell their collections to us. All we received from collectors are scans of their cards, we have never asked anyone mailing their cards to us for inspection.

Hope this clear the bias you have of us.

Regards,
T206museum

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  #14  
Old 10-03-2003, 05:22 PM
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Posted By: runscott

but you have responded to something that I didn't post. Did I say anything about you forcing or threatening anyone - how ludicrous can you get? I'm sure you do receive plenty of emails, but the fact is that you DID read mine, and your only response was to ask if I wanted to sell it. I will repeat: you never answered the question that I asked, but instead asked if I wanted to sell it - can I get any clearer?

So no, your most recent post has not cleared up any bias - it has simply shown that you respond when you feel like it, and you skirt the issue...and you are still posting anonymously.

I will also repeat that I feel you serve a useful purpose as a starting point for beginning t206 collectors.

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