NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Watercooler Talk- ALL sports talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-08-2018, 11:39 AM
clydepepper's Avatar
clydepepper clydepepper is offline
Raymond 'Robbie' Culpepper
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 6,928
Default Happy 50th Birthday to a Future Hall-of-Famer:

Mike Mussina could get in as early next month.



Garnered 63.5 % last year....Edgar Martinez was the only candidate who received more without being elected.

5-Time All-Star; 7-Time Gold Glove

270W- 153L .638 WPCT

2,813K ; 3.58 K/W ratio

WAR - 83.0 which would rank 29th out of the 63 current Hall-of-Fame Pitchers.

Finally won 20 games in his last year at the age of 38.

He had (2) seasons each with 18 & 19 wins.

17 straight years with at least 11 wins.



...I know, I know...'wins are de-valued these days'.

BULL!

He gets my vote!



===
__________________
.
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson

“If you have a chance to make life better for others and fail to do so, you are wasting your time on this earth.”- Roberto Clemente

Last edited by clydepepper; 12-08-2018 at 01:23 PM. Reason: Adding statistics
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-08-2018, 02:58 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,264
Default

Where do you get 63 pitchers? I see 79 as the official figure. Anyhow, I think Mussina gets in this time around.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-08-2018, 05:33 PM
barrysloate barrysloate is offline
Barry Sloate
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 8,293
Default

Interesting fact about Mussina:

Yankees won the World Series in 2000 and 2009. Mussina played for them eight seasons, from 2001-2008. Bad luck I guess.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-08-2018, 05:49 PM
dgo71 dgo71 is offline
Derek 0u3ll3tt3
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,215
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrysloate View Post
Interesting fact about Mussina:

Yankees won the World Series in 2000 and 2009. Mussina played for them eight seasons, from 2001-2008. Bad luck I guess.
Same thing that happened with Donnie Baseball.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-11-2018, 07:00 PM
clydepepper's Avatar
clydepepper clydepepper is offline
Raymond 'Robbie' Culpepper
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 6,928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Where do you get 63 pitchers? I see 79 as the official figure. Anyhow, I think Mussina gets in this time around.
All stats are from BBR...not sure how they got that number.


By the way, In 2018, Edgar got 70.4 percent of the vote and Moose got 63.5


and only one player who ever got 60% never got in(*)and Gil Hodges got to that level THREE times!

I'm really surprised more people don't complain about Gil Hodges never getting in.



*- Morris got at least 60% THREE times, but got in via the Veterans-ish committee last year.

=
__________________
.
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson

“If you have a chance to make life better for others and fail to do so, you are wasting your time on this earth.”- Roberto Clemente
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-05-2019, 07:57 PM
RedlegsFan's Avatar
RedlegsFan RedlegsFan is offline
Wes
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 986
Default

Who is Mike Mussina?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-11-2019, 12:47 PM
dabigyankeeman dabigyankeeman is offline
Arnie
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: florida, used to be New York
Posts: 566
Default

I would like to see Mussina get in. He played his whole career in the tough AL East against strong teams, and he pitched thru the steroid era too which raises your ERA. He retired with a 20 win season which means he could have pitched more if he wanted to, and might have reached 300 wins with two more years.
__________________
Its so great to love all the New York teams in all sports, particularly the YANKEES.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-11-2019, 12:49 PM
dabigyankeeman dabigyankeeman is offline
Arnie
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: florida, used to be New York
Posts: 566
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrysloate View Post
Interesting fact about Mussina:

Yankees won the World Series in 2000 and 2009. Mussina played for them eight seasons, from 2001-2008. Bad luck I guess.
Yeah, it happens. Look how many years Mattingly played for the Yankees without a championship, and the first year he is retired they win.
__________________
Its so great to love all the New York teams in all sports, particularly the YANKEES.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-12-2019, 09:54 AM
clydepepper's Avatar
clydepepper clydepepper is offline
Raymond 'Robbie' Culpepper
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 6,928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabigyankeeman View Post
Yeah, it happens. Look how many years Mattingly played for the Yankees without a championship, and the first year he is retired they win.


...and Nomar was traded the year the 'Sox finally won.


the 'Sox won 53 and lost 21 after the trade.


Fate is cruel sometimes.




.
__________________
.
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson

“If you have a chance to make life better for others and fail to do so, you are wasting your time on this earth.”- Roberto Clemente

Last edited by clydepepper; 01-12-2019 at 10:07 AM. Reason: adding detail
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-13-2019, 07:26 PM
rats60's Avatar
rats60 rats60 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,898
Default

It is not looking good for Mussina to get in this year. With 41% of the known votes, he has gained 16 votes from last year. Last year he was 49 short. The voters who remain anonymous have a tendency to voter for fewer players.

Edgar Martinez is looking good to get in. He has gained 17 votes and was only short 20 last year. It is looking like a 3 man class of Rivera, Halladay and Martinez. With Jeter the only strong candidate on next year's ballot, I would expect Mussina to join Jeter as the BBWAA 2020 HOF class.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-14-2019, 03:51 AM
Yastrzemski Sports's Avatar
Yastrzemski Sports Yastrzemski Sports is offline
Adam Yastrzemski
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Cooperstown, NY
Posts: 524
Default

Mussina should definitely be in before Smoltz and maybe Glavine. If Mussina had taken a job in the NL you could lower his era a half point and he would have had 300 wins. It’s hard to believe the voters haven’t taken that into account. My guess would be that he gets in either 2020 or 21.
Edgar does appear to be closing in. To me, Edgar doesn’t belong at all. If he played a position he wouldn’t even be in the conversation. Players career stats most comparable to him are Will Clark, Magglio Ordonez and Moises Alou. He had 2200 hits and 300 hr with no other real accolades. If you have a ballot I don’t know how you vote for Edgar before Fred McGriff, Jeff Kent and Larry Walker.
I expect Mariano and Halladay will sail in and they should.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-14-2019, 06:38 AM
rats60's Avatar
rats60 rats60 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,898
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports View Post
Mussina should definitely be in before Smoltz and maybe Glavine. If Mussina had taken a job in the NL you could lower his era a half point and he would have had 300 wins. It’s hard to believe the voters haven’t taken that into account. My guess would be that he gets in either 2020 or 21.
Edgar does appear to be closing in. To me, Edgar doesn’t belong at all. If he played a position he wouldn’t even be in the conversation. Players career stats most comparable to him are Will Clark, Magglio Ordonez and Moises Alou. He had 2200 hits and 300 hr with no other real accolades. If you have a ballot I don’t know how you vote for Edgar before Fred McGriff, Jeff Kent and Larry Walker.
I expect Mariano and Halladay will sail in and they should.
Disagree. Glavine won 2 Cy Youngs was 2nd twice and 3rd twice. Smoltz also won a Cy Young and then went to the bullpen to help the Braves as a closer and won Fireman of the Year. Because of them the Braves won their division every year from 1991-2002 (2005 for Smoltz).

Mussina finished in the top 3 of Cy Young voting once. If Mussina gets elected, only Jack Morris and Red Ruffing will have higher ERAs. The lower ERA is ridiculous. The league difference is about .25 before ignoring that the pitching was much better in the NL. Who was Mussina competing with? Clemens 91-03 and Pedro 98-04. Still he couldn't win a Cy Young, never led in ERA or WHIP. Also, his win total would have been lower in the NL. In the AL, he never got pulled for a pinch hitter.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-14-2019, 07:30 AM
Yastrzemski Sports's Avatar
Yastrzemski Sports Yastrzemski Sports is offline
Adam Yastrzemski
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Cooperstown, NY
Posts: 524
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
Disagree. Glavine won 2 Cy Youngs was 2nd twice and 3rd twice. Smoltz also won a Cy Young and then went to the bullpen to help the Braves as a closer and won Fireman of the Year. Because of them the Braves won their division every year from 1991-2002 (2005 for Smoltz).

Mussina finished in the top 3 of Cy Young voting once. If Mussina gets elected, only Jack Morris and Red Ruffing will have higher ERAs. The lower ERA is ridiculous. The league difference is about .25 before ignoring that the pitching was much better in the NL. Who was Mussina competing with? Clemens 91-03 and Pedro 98-04. Still he couldn't win a Cy Young, never led in ERA or WHIP. Also, his win total would have been lower in the NL. In the AL, he never got pulled for a pinch hitter.
Let me throw some numbers out there.
Mussina 270-153 .638%. 2813 k, 3.68 era, 123 era+.
Glavine 305-203 .600%. 2607 k, 3.54 era, 118 era+.
Smoltz 213-155 .579%. 3084 k, 3.33 era, 125 era+. And 154 saves.

Era+ shows a truer measure of how the player performs in relation to their league. Yes, the Braves have a ws the cy. Mussina has 7 gold gloves - not as important but a nice plus. But you can’t convince me of any reason why the Braves would go in first ballot and Mussinas first year he got 20% and had to climb over 6 years to get close. I would argue that he’s way more deserving than Smoltz - who had good years as a starter and reliever but didn’t do enough as either to get in. And Mussina, in some ways, is better than Glavine. Glavine has the magic 300 number and the 2 cy but over the course of their career Mussina is right there.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-14-2019, 02:23 PM
rats60's Avatar
rats60 rats60 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,898
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports View Post
Let me throw some numbers out there.
Mussina 270-153 .638%. 2813 k, 3.68 era, 123 era+.
Glavine 305-203 .600%. 2607 k, 3.54 era, 118 era+.
Smoltz 213-155 .579%. 3084 k, 3.33 era, 125 era+. And 154 saves.

Era+ shows a truer measure of how the player performs in relation to their league. Yes, the Braves have a ws the cy. Mussina has 7 gold gloves - not as important but a nice plus. But you can’t convince me of any reason why the Braves would go in first ballot and Mussinas first year he got 20% and had to climb over 6 years to get close. I would argue that he’s way more deserving than Smoltz - who had good years as a starter and reliever but didn’t do enough as either to get in. And Mussina, in some ways, is better than Glavine. Glavine has the magic 300 number and the 2 cy but over the course of their career Mussina is right there.
We will just have to disagree. ERA+ is heavily biased when there is a talent discrepancy between leagues like there was in Mussina's career. Changing careers wouldn't have effected his career ERA, which is bad by HOF standards, like you claim. He was never one of the top pitchers in his league despite a void of talent (only 1 top 3 Cy Young finish). He was an accumulator and that is the only reason his is getting HOF support.

Tom Glavine on the other hand was one of the best pitchers in baseball for a decade, 2 Cy Youngs, 6 top 3 finishes, led NL in wins 5 times and 9 division titles with the 10th year being the strike. He also hit the magic 300 win mark. He is a no brainer as a 1st ballot HOFer.

Smoltz is a little bit behind Glavine as he only had the 1 Cy Young season as a starter. His case is more a combination of that along with 3 seasons as an elite closer (144 saves and FotY) and a 15-4 postseason record. That is #2 in wins all time. For starters with 100+ innings only Curt Schilling had a better win percentage and Smoltz pitched 209 postseason innings. I wouldn't have put him in on the 1st ballot, but he is definitely ahead of Mussina. He is basically Mussina with 3+ years as an elite closer plus one of the greatest post season pitchers of all time.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-14-2019, 03:18 PM
Snapolit1's Avatar
Snapolit1 Snapolit1 is offline
Ste.ve Na.polit.ano
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 5,760
Default

Mussina deserves to be in the Hall (of the Very Good). Right next to Baines.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-15-2019, 12:58 PM
Promethius88 Promethius88 is offline
Tim Hadley
Tim Ha.dley
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Springfield, IL
Posts: 526
Default

Dave Concepcion deserves to be in the Hall. Assuming you believe that Ozzie Smith deserves to be there.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-15-2019, 01:56 PM
clydepepper's Avatar
clydepepper clydepepper is offline
Raymond 'Robbie' Culpepper
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 6,928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Promethius88 View Post
Dave Concepcion deserves to be in the Hall. Assuming you believe that Ozzie Smith deserves to be there.
Tim- make your case for your statement...or is it just an opinion?



.
__________________
.
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson

“If you have a chance to make life better for others and fail to do so, you are wasting your time on this earth.”- Roberto Clemente
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Happy Birthday Hall of Fame! sayhey24 Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 1 06-13-2014 07:24 PM
OT: Happy Birthday HOF! sayhey24 Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 06-12-2014 02:11 PM
OT. Happy 50th Anniversary-Mazeroski's Home Run! Brian Van Horn Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 9 10-13-2010 12:07 PM
HOF Happy Birthday Archive Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) 1 02-01-2009 08:23 PM
Happy Birthday, Ben! Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 1 07-07-2004 05:52 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:24 AM.


ebay GSB