What Ever Happened To Nellie Fox and Eddie Yost?

[frankbmd]

I know they are both dead, but

Nellie Fox played nearly every game at the same position for the same team for over a decade. He never struck out more than 18 times in any season.

Eddie Yost was hardly a feared hitter but led the league in walks six times and walked nearly 700 times more than he struck out over his career with an OBP of .394 despite hitting .254 with only 139 home runs in 18 years.

So Nellie never struck out and Eddie always walked. Where are these types of players today? They are hard to find. What factors in the game itself could be a factor?

Below I have abstracted data based on 6 seasons. Each season is roughly 20 years apart. Each line represents totals based on an average player with 600 Plate appearances for a given year. For the sake of this thread I have listed the names of the era (numbered) and the stat lines (lettered). I am asking you to match the eras by that number with the letter of the appropriate stat line. Thus you might answer 1D - 2A - 3E - 4F - 5C - 6B. You would be wrong, but this is just to show you how it works.

I think this demonstrates to some extent how the game has changed and how it hasn't. Comments on the thread question are also welcomed as well as comments on the factors that have influenced the changes you see.


Dead Ball Era (1)
Depression Era (2)
Willie, Mickey & The Duke Era (3)
Expansion Era (4)
Roids Era (5)
Modern Era (6)

The lines of stats are ordered as follows

Letter -- Runs -- Hits -- HR -- Walks -- Strike Outs

A -- 72 -- 152 -- 8 -- 42 --54
B -- 76 -- 143 -- 16 -- 53 -- 95
C -- 70 -- 140 -- 14 -- 56 -- 65
D -- 64 -- 135 -- 13 -- 46 -- 123
E -- 62 -- 133 -- 3 -- 47 -- 60
F -- 64 -- 136 -- 11 -- 52 -- 79

This isn't really too hard so please try it without searching databases, but if you who want to cheat, please identify which actual years are represented and send them to me via PM.

Finally I would ask stache to withhold his answer until post #20.

I will identify the correct answer but not right away so everyone can have a chance.

There may be a Frank Buck or two awarded for the first correct answer.

[Runscott]

Ok, I'll play

1E
2A
3F
4C
5B
6D

[clydepepper]

I agree on most of Scott's but, my fully independent thought are:

1E
2A
3C
4F
5B
6D

[Runscott]

My thinking was related to the nay-sayers' complaints that Maris got more HR's in 1961 due to expansion. I figured maybe that was true for all players, but on the other hand, you've got all the expansion bottom-feeder players who wouldn't be hitting as many.

[bn2cardz]

1e
2a
3c
4f
5b
6d


I was thinking of this the other day. We will never see another player like Joe Sewell or Willie Keeler. In a 14 year career Sewell only struck out 114 times. Keeler with a 19 year career struck out only 136 times. Putting them both at 10 SO/162 game average. Though, Keeler's stats are a little harder to confirm since SO weren't as well recorded.

Sewell:
In 1925 he had 699 PA (the most in any of his seasons) and 608AB (again his highest season), with only 4 strikeouts for the entire season. That put him at 152AB per SO, the second place person for that stat that year had 64.9 with 10 SO (Sam Rice). The 2014 season leader in this stat had 13.4 AB/SO (Victor Martinez).

[billyb]

1E
2A
3D
4F
5B
6C

I took out my calculator, weighed the best hitters, pitchers, wrote it all out, adjusted my results 26 times. Then carefully...............mind you, I said carefully....................folded everything into a nice pile, ....................and tossed it into the trash.

Then I just went with my gut feelings.

[bn2cardz]

At this rate Stache will never get to chime in. haha.

[steve B]

I'll get him a bit closer.

1E- 2A- 3F- 4D- 5B- 6C

Just went with a general impression of each era, and I'm probably way off.

Steve B

[bosoxfan]

1-e
2-c
3-f
4-a
5-b
6-d

[bosoxfan]

A lot of 1-E

[jiw98]

I'll give it shot.

1E
2F
3B
4A
5C
6D

[AustinMike]

I'll give it a go in an attempt to move us along towards the answer:

1E
2A
3C
4F
5B
6D

[frankbmd]

Each accurate contestant Frank Bucks delivered.

Ensueing accurate contestants Frank Bucks denied.

More discussion about the disappearance of the contact hitter like Fox who rarely struck out and the eyeball hitter like Yost who often walked (and not intentionally) is welcome though. Sanctions on the stache are lifted as well.

[clydepepper]

One reason for the decline in bases-on-balls is the increase in the number of Latin players, who really do live be the ole standard 'You can't walk off an island'. However, most of these players do make contact, so they are not the main reason for the increase in strikeouts.

There are plenty of American-born players who have adopted this aggressive approach, without developing the ability to consistently make contact - and they are the ones responsible for the rise in strikeouts.

That's only a generality of course, there are exceptions to that trend among US-born players, like Jeff Francoeur who hardly ever walked but did not strikeout a million times and Adam Dunn who struck out a ton but also walked enough to regularly contend for the league lead.

Overall, with so many rules swayed in their favor, hitters have little reason to be patient and wait for the perfect pitch to hit.

The most incredibly stupid thing I have heard concerning this trend, is that it is being considered to make the use of shifts illegal. Why should pull-happy hitters like Brian McCann, for instance, be rewarded for not learning to adjust.

Nuts! MHO