Top Ten

[CuriousGeorge]

I had a long conversation with the boys at Heritage before I bought mine. They gave me piece of mind that what I was buying was as advertised so I trusted them. That was of course when I thought this was a reasonably fair playing field and before the likes of Brent, Gary, fake scans, stealing shipping charges, etc. Unfortunately now I have become far more cautious and have absolutely passed on cards I would have ordinarily went after.

Originally Posted by oldjudge

The lower grade Atlantic’s example had great provenance coming from a player’s family. That is why it traded for a premium.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

When is the last time a low grade W600 Wagner Type 1 sold? A couple of very nice looking mid grade ones sold for $168K and $180K respectively recently and a nicer Type 2 sold for $264K.

I call dibs on the next type 1.....

[GaryPassamonte]

It's nice to see interest in this thread. Some cards are obvious choices since there have been recent sales that attest to their current value, others may have not been sold in a number of years, so determining their current value is an educated guess.
Jay and Kevin, I think your lists are pretty close.
Jay- I like your idea of using $100K at a benchmark. I could reword the question to ask which cards have or possibly would sell for over $100K in a PSA 1. This might narrow the list.
Corey- I mentioned the Four Base Hits Kelly, but no one has included it on their list. It might be my favorite card.
Let's exclude cdvs, cabinets, and trade cards for this discussion. I think I'll start another thread asking a simialar question for these.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

It's nice to see interest in this thread. Some cards are obvious choices since there have been recent sales that attest to their current value, others may have not been sold in a number of years, so determining their current value is an educated guess.
Jay and Kevin, I think your lists are pretty close.
Jay- I like your idea of using $100K at a benchmark. I could reword the question to ask which cards have or possibly would sell for over $100K in a PSA 1. This might narrow the list.
Corey- I mentioned the Four Base Hits Kelly, but no one has included it on their list. It might be my favorite card.
Let's exclude cdvs, cabinets, and trade cards for this discussion. I think I'll start another thread asking a simialar question for these.

Four Base Hits Kelly is my favorite card. Being a rare 19th century issue, it is a card many people probably do not know much about. But it captures that century's arguably greatest player at the absolute peak of his career in a pose taken from a known photo shoot. It is similar to the Just So Young in that the total population from the entire issue is very few, and any card, common or not, would command a hefty price.

[oldjudge]

Gary-With that caveat in mind this would be my list:

T206 Wagner
Baltimore News Ruth
Anson in Uniform
Just So Young
Cobb with Cobb back
T206 Doyle NY
Cobb W600
Ruth M101-5 Ad back (blank backs less valuable)
T210 Jackson
Kalamazoo Bats Ewing

The last one was a tough decision, but based on private sales I think it ekes out a spot over the Four Base Hits Kelly.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Four Base Hits Kelly is my favorite card. Being a rare 19th century issue, it is a card many people probably do not know much about. But it captures that century's arguably greatest player at the absolute peak of his career in a pose taken from a known photo shoot. It is similar to the Just So Young in that the total population from the entire issue is very few, and any card, common or not, would command a hefty price.

Corey-It is a great card, but to say that Kelly was the 19th century’s greatest player is crazy. He may have been the most popular, but nowhere near the greatest.

[LincolnVT]

Baltimore News Ruth -- Blue or Red
Wagner T206
Baltimore News Ruth -- Team Card
W600 Cobb
W600 Wagner Street Clothes
E107 Matthewson
Ruth Hands on Hips Postcard c. 1915
Ruth Pitching Pose Postcard c 1915
Ruth M101 Blank or Advertizing Back
Ruth 1915 Red Sox Team Postcard

[LincolnVT]

Anson in uniform would be in my top ten over the 1915 Red Sox Team Postcard.

[oldjudge]

Ethan-With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about.

[LincolnVT]

Just my opinion. Thanks for yours.

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Ethan-With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about.

[oldjudge]

It’s really not opinion for the most part; it’s value that has been achieved in the marketplace. As much as you’d like it to be otherwise, your 1915 Ruth team postcard doesn’t come close to making the list.

[CuriousGeorge]

Can the next top 10 list be Ruth postcards? Or top 10 red back Cobb's?

Originally Posted by oldjudge

It’s really not opinion for the most part; it’s value that has been achieved in the marketplace. As much as you’d like it to be otherwise, your 1915 Ruth team postcard doesn’t come close to making the list.

[LincolnVT]

Well then the data should be out there and we don't need to ask people what they think. I don't have a 1915 Red Sox Team Postcard.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Can the next top 10 list be Ruth postcards? Or top 10 red back Cobb's?

how about top ten fleer billy ripken F$ckface variations?

[CuriousGeorge]

How about top 10 industry ripoffs?

Originally Posted by ullmandds

how about top ten fleer billy ripken F$ckface variations?

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

Baltimore News Ruth -- Blue or Red
Wagner T206
Baltimore News Ruth -- Team Card
W600 Cobb
W600 Wagner Street Clothes
E107 Matthewson
Ruth Hands on Hips Postcard c. 1915
Ruth Pitching Pose Postcard c 1915
Ruth M101 Blank or Advertizing Back
Ruth 1915 Red Sox Team Postcard

I forgot about the Baltimore News Ruth team card. Good catch.

https://www.robertedwardauctions.com...ing-babe-ruth/

After REA sold that card, there was a lengthy discussion whether it should be characterized as a card. So, to the extent one characterizes it as a card, I would put it on the list.

[oldjudge]

Corey-I don’t know what the Baltimore News team card would sell for today, but when it did sell it sold for $52,000. I doubt it makes the list, but who knows.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Corey-I thought of adding the Creighton, but I didn’t know when it was issued (just after Creighton’s death or years later) so I did not include it. The Four Base Hits Kelly is a possibility. I don’t think the Grand Match ticket of Wright is worth enough to fall on the list. When it was listed in REA a few years ago it could not get an opening bid and was eventually pulled. I think it is a $50-$100,000 card which falls short in value. Two other possibilities are the Wright and Spalding Mort Rogers scorecards, but again they fall slightly short. Two other possibilities are the unique Ewing Kalamazoo Bat or the unique Ewing portrait N173. There is also the Peggy Popcorn Ruth.

The reason the Grand Match of Wright was pulled had nothing to do with failure to get an opening bid. In fact, as I recall the card was pulled before the auction even opened. As to its value, the only known copy is graded "A" due to the corners being trimmed. I am fairly confident it would sell for more than several of the cards on your list if valued in PSA 1 condition.

We don't know the precise year the P&S Creighton was issued. Rucker in his book dated it c. 1863. Others believe it came out later. If I had to guess, I would date it to c. 1865, the year the Leslie's woodcut of Creighton was issued. Interest in him then was obviously still strong, and logically one would think the card would be issued when there was still strong interest in the player. Regardless the precise year of issue, the card being the only known player pose of whom to many is the game's first superstar, I believe it belongs on the list assuming cards of that type are eligible.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Corey-I don’t know what the Baltimore News team card would sell for today, but when it did sell it sold for $52,000. I doubt it makes the list, but who knows.

Jay,

That was in 2007. The Baltimore team photo Lelands recently sold with Ruth went for about 200K. IMO this one would sell for a lot more.

[LincolnVT]

+1

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Jay,

That was in 2007. The Baltimore team photo Lelands recently sold with Ruth went for about 200K. IMO this one would sell for a lot more.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Jay,

That was in 2007. The Baltimore team photo Lelands recently sold with Ruth went for about 200K. IMO this one would sell for a lot more.

All I know is that team photo must have had some hefty insurance bill.

[LincolnVT]

I guess a T210 SGC or PSA 1 Jackson could out perform a SGC or PSA 1 Ruth c. 1915 Hands on Hips RPPC, or a SGC / PSA 1 Ruth c. 1915 Pitching Pose RPPC, I just think that it is unlikely. Pretty sure that the Hands on Hips is a 1/1 and has never seen an auction.

[oldjudge]

Not for me, but good luck with those postcards

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

All I know is that team photo must have had some hefty insurance bill.

Lol

[Joe_G.]

Maybe another OJ ?



$130k (Spring 2014 REA)

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

The reason the Grand Match of Wright was pulled had nothing to do with failure to get an opening bid. In fact, as I recall the card was pulled before the auction even opened. As to its value, the only known copy is graded "A" due to the corners being trimmed. I am fairly confident it would sell for more than several of the cards on your list if valued in PSA 1 condition.

We don't know the precise year the P&S Creighton was issued. Rucker in his book dated it c. 1863. Others believe it came out later. If I had to guess, I would date it to c. 1865, the year the Leslie's woodcut of Creighton was issued. Interest in him then was obviously still strong, and logically one would think the card would be issued when there was still strong interest in the player. Regardless the precise year of issue, the card being the only known player pose of whom to many is the game's first superstar, I believe it belongs on the list assuming cards of that type are eligible.

Corey-Sounds like you know more than me about the Wright. Why was it pulled if not for a lack of a bid?

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by robertsmithnocure

Those are all great cards too. Is the Creighton a Peck and Snyder? I am not very familiar with the card, but the book that I have by Mark Rucker says that the photographer is unknown.

The Creighton is a Peck & Snyder, who are listed on the verso as the publishers. To my knowledge, P&S did not photograph any of the baseball subjects on their trade cards, but instead published the images. So that was why Rucker listed the photographer as unknown.

At the time Mark published his book of CdVs, the c. 1860 Atlantics had not been discovered. The studio for that CdV was Farach & Lalumia in Brooklyn. If one compares the rug in that carte to the rug in the Creighton image, they appear they might be the same. So very possibly Farach & Lalumia was the studio where the Creighton image was taken.

[RCMcKenzie]

If I found the cards in grandpa's attic, these are the one's I would keep... The rest I would send to an AH that charges 21% vig and free shipping.

T206 Wagner
T206 Plank
T206 Doyle
T210 Jackson
T210 Stengel
14 cj Jackson
14 cj Mathewson
33 Goudey Lajoie
Just So any card
4 base hit any card

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

T206 Wagner
Baltimore News Ruth
Anson in Uniform
Just So Young
1869 Cincinnati Peck and Snyder TRADE CARD (not more common CdV)
Cobb with Cobb back
1860 Brooklyn Atlantic's CdV
Cobb W600
Ruth M101-5 Ad back (blank backs less valuable)
T210 Jackson


All of the above should exceed $100,000 with a number grade. The Buttercream Ruth and Doyle NY could fit also.

Jay - The Peck and Snyder trade card is actually more plentiful in the combined PSA and SGC population reports. Total graded 34 with only 13 being cdvs. I was a little surprised at this.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by GaryPassamonte

Jay - The Peck and Snyder trade card is actually more plentiful in the combined PSA and SGC population reports. Total graded 34 with only 13 being cdvs. I was a little surprised at this.

Yes, but of the 21 that are P&S trade cards, how many are untrimmed? My guess is the (great) majority are trimmed.

[oldjudge]

Gary-My guess is that some are mislabeled and are CdVs. The trade card is much scarcer than the CdV, especially, as Corey says, untrimmed .

[robertsmithnocure]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Yes, but of the 21 that are P&S trade cards, how many are untrimmed? My guess is the (great) majority are trimmed.

I bet that most of the know Trade Cards are trimmed. To me the ones that date to 1869 are really special. I would love to have one of the early ones with the St Anns address.

[GaryPassamonte]

A quick search of REA results shows 6 trade cards and 7 cdvs. I would guess the breakdown between cdvs and trade cards is actually quite even.
Untrimmed trade cards are definitely in the minority and should command a premium.
Regardless of the breakdown, I've just never understood why this card, whether trade card or cdv, has never shot up in value. The image depicts, arguably, the most significant team in professional baseball history. It is also relatively rare with maybe 50 in existence, but not so rare to be unobtainable. I would think serious collectors would be competing to own one. It should be one of the hobby's highest demand cards, yet it has seen only modest gains in recent years. Maybe it's because it's a team card, but the strong demand isn't there.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by robertsmithnocure

I bet that most of the know Trade Cards are trimmed. To me the ones that date to 1869 are really special. I would love to have one of the early ones with the St Anns address.

The only untrimmed one with the St Anns address that I am aware of had the ice skate ad on the verso. As I recall it was returned to the NYPL as it was determined to have been stolen.

Is anybody aware of another untrimmed one with the St Anns address?

[oldjudge]

Corey-Do all the ones with the skate ad have the St Ann's address?

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Corey-Do all the ones with the skate ad have the St Ann's address?

That untrimmed skate ad one with the St Ann address is the only ice skate ad P&S I can picture in my mind at this time. I have vague recollections over the years of seeing a few more, but I can't say for sure. I have no recollection of the addresses on their versos, but inasmuch as they were trimmed it is very possible the addresses were lost to the trimming.

[Yoda]

A Texas Tommy Joe Jackson, if you can find one.

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

The only untrimmed one with the St Anns address that I am aware of had the ice skate ad on the verso. As I recall it was returned to the NYPL as it was determined to have been stolen.

Is anybody aware of another untrimmed one with the St Anns address?

Hi Corey - I have these images in my photo library. Obviously the one example is trimmed, but you can still make out the Ann Street address

[benjulmag]

Thanks for sharing Kevin. The first one I believe was returned to the NYPL. The last one I had forgotten about.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

Hi Corey - I have these images in my photo library. Obviously the one example is trimmed, but you can still make out the Ann Street address

Nice examples. Thanks for sharing.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by Leon

Nice examples. Thanks for sharing.

+1

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by Leon

Nice examples. Thanks for sharing.

Just to be clear, those are not my cards - they are just images that I have downloaded from the internet over the years. I hope that the owners do not mind.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

Just to be clear, those are not my cards - they are just images that I have downloaded from the internet over the years. I hope that the owners do not mind.

I understood that but others may not have. Still great cards wherever they are.

Thanks again