Question about 1989 Fleer Billy Ripken Whiteout

[kemdawg]

I have a question about the 1989 Fleer Billy Ripken Whiteout card. Does the whiteout portion on the knob of the bat have print dots on it? Reason I ask, is I picked one up, and looked at it with my loupe and there are no print dots on it. Just wondering if I picked up a doctored version of the card. I'm posting a picture, but the quality isn't the greatest.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by kemdawg

I have a question about the 1989 Fleer Billy Ripken Whiteout card. Does the whiteout portion on the knob of the bat have print dots on it? Reason I ask, is I picked one up, and looked at it with my loupe and there are no print dots on it. Just wondering if I picked up a doctored version of the card. I'm posting a picture, but the quality isn't the greatest.

I will give you my honest opinion from someone who has collected 89 Fleer Ripkens for 30 years.

THEY(whiteouts) ARE ALL FAKE, this includes every one in a graded slab.

I personally have opened cases of 89 Fleer and never seen one. I know most of the major collectors/sellers of 89 Fleer Ripkens and have never had a single person say they pulled one from a pack, except one seller that was really making them.

They are altered by either removing the colored ink or adding white paint.

[jp1216]

Whiteouts - real or not? It's been asked a million times.

I have little doubt that there were 'whiteout' cards created by Fleer employees that entered the market. But I think these could've been individual creations by workers - post production. True? Who knows. Were workers told to create variations to drive interest? Did workers make creations to sell on the outside? People were paying $$ for factory scraps.

Before the internet, rumors spread about a 'whiteout' or 'white scratch' version. Beckett first coined it the 'White Scribble'. Many believe this to be the real 'whiteout'. Pictures weren't as easy to share back then. I'm sure that many, many people made up there own 'whiteout' versions to sell/collect.

There is a chance that Fleer did make a real 'whiteout' but it is so rare that either we haven't seen yet or we couldn't recognize them amidst all of the bogus crap out there. Tons of crap.

Here is a set of 'Whiteout' progressive proofs. These aren't the same as the legitimate 'White Scribble' version. Maybe a real version that just hasn't surfaced yet or is ultra rare? Remember - there are other confirmed versions out there that only have a few examples known. Maybe real 'whiteouts' are somewhere yet to be found.



That being said - it's safe to say that at least 99% of 'graded' whiteout cards are either homemade creations by fraudsters or post production creations by Fleer. Likely the first. Buyer beware. The number of newly graded examples is alarming. Too easy to turn a 50 cent card into $200.

Also note that until a few years ago, PSA didn't differentiate between 'whiteouts' and 'white scribbles' on their flips. That makes their POP reports way off.

Happy Hunting.

[kemdawg]

This is incredibly interesting. I had no idea there was even controversy around the card. It makes sense though.

So, it seems that whether or not these are real, there would not be print dots on the white portion. Is that correct? I would have thought that would be an easy tell-tale sign, but it sounds like that's not the case.

[jp1216]

I agree. You'd think that a card that goes through the regular print process would have the normal print dot patterns. No dots would be a sign of a post production creation, right? Not saying they didn't come from Fleer - but created after they came off the printer.

BTW - this thread is located in the BST section. Maybe it should be moved.

[kemdawg]

Originally Posted by jp1216

BTW - this thread is located in the BST section. Maybe it should be moved.

Oh, you're right. Am I able to move it?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by kemdawg

Oh, you're right. Am I able to move it?

PM Leon he will move it.

As far as print dots, if it was a real card(they're not) there would not be print dots. The white on baseball cards is not printed on the card it is very thin layer of white paper attached to the front of the card stock.

[steve B]

The easiest way for them to make a "whiteout" version would be to simply stone the knob off the plate. Which would take maybe a minute to stop the press stone off the problem and restart.
They'd have to do it on every plate that was on a press at the time, but if they were using a four color press, that would be all of them.

And that would leave no print dots as well.

[steve B]

One made from whiting out or airbrushing the original art might show dots.

[pokerplyr80]

It seems strange this was moved to the water cooler section when there is another dedicated to modern baseball cards.

[jchcollins]

No offense, but who would bother to "fake" that card?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

No offense, but who would bother to "fake" that card?

You would be amazed at how many people would like to make a few to several hundred dollars in a matter of seconds. The best part is the original card you alter can be purchased for under $1 so even if you screw up a few it doesn't matter.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by bnorth

You would be amazed at how many people would like to make a few to several hundred dollars in a matter of seconds. The best part is the original card you alter can be purchased for under $1 so even if you screw up a few it doesn't matter.

I know, I know...

Back in '89 I was 12 and of course after the original "FF" card as all of us were. Never did get one because by the time the error was discovered, all the LCS's were hoarding them. So going into Christmas that year, I didn't have one. A few weeks before, we made a trip up to PA to see my grandparents - and the trip included a stop at my Dad's high school buddy's place. This guy had a collection of like a thousand rare beer cans in his basement, and knew I liked baseball cards. He had gotten me a wax box of '89 Fleer as a gift, and guess what - he bought it like months and months before - before everyone knew about the FF card. I sat right there in his basement and opened up all those packs, and sure enough - I got an FF Ripken. My Dad and his buddy (who were none the wiser when I started opening the packs) looked at the card and laughed like hell.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I know, I know...

Back in '89 I was 12 and of course after the original "FF" card as all of us were. Never did get one because by the time the error was discovered, all the LCS's were hoarding them. So going into Christmas that year, I didn't have one. A few weeks before, we made a trip up to PA to see my grandparents - and the trip included a stop at my Dad's high school buddy's place. This guy had a collection of like a thousand rare beer cans in his basement, and knew I liked baseball cards. He had gotten me a wax box of '89 Fleer as a gift, and guess what - he bought it like months and months before - before everyone knew about the FF card. I sat right there in his basement and opened up all those packs, and sure enough - I got an FF Ripken. My Dad and his buddy (who were none the wiser when I started opening the packs) looked at the card and laughed like hell.

Great story. I opened cases of them back in the day with my younger brother. Our Mom worked at a place that gave the employees 20 or 25% off. They would sell the cards to us at cost and then we got the discount. So we opened a ton of wax back in the junk era.