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  #1  
Old 09-09-2018, 08:45 AM
deweyinthehall deweyinthehall is online now
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Default 1974 Topps Factory Set

After recently putting together a master set of 1974 Topps baseball, I had a few questions concerning the Factory set they issued that year:

1) Was it Sears or Penny's, and was it available in stores or by catalog only?
2) I've heard it was issued for Christmas, and I assume that would have been in December of 1974, but given all cards were printed at once could it have been in time for 1973?
3) Did it contain the traded set and/or the team checklists?
4) Did it contain the Washington variations or the Padres?
5) And did it contain the other variations (Apodaco, no position Alou)
6) Finally, which version of the Freisleben did it have - Washington, large San Diego or small San Diego?

If anyone has opened one and can remember any of this, that would be very helpful. Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 09-09-2018, 09:04 AM
vintagetoppsguy vintagetoppsguy is offline
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Great questions.

I thought this was pretty cool...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Complete-fa...IAAOSwvspbgd0n
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  #3  
Old 09-09-2018, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
Great questions.

I thought this was pretty cool...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Complete-fa...IAAOSwvspbgd0n
That is a cool listing. The box states there are “over 700 cards” so I assume that at least the traded cards would be included (660 + 44).
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Last edited by Vintagevault13; 09-09-2018 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 09-09-2018, 02:58 PM
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Yeah, it talks about approximately 50 traded cards are surrounding the set. So that would mean that it was not available in 1973. Have to figure all the cards have San Diego and the corrections.
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Old 09-09-2018, 02:58 PM
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*double post*
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Last edited by swarmee; 09-09-2018 at 02:58 PM.
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  #6  
Old 09-09-2018, 03:17 PM
Rich Klein Rich Klein is offline
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It was in the J.C. Penney catalog and this makes some sense. This was the 1st year Topps issued their cards all at once so putting them into a factory set made sense.

I would guess:

San Diego cards
Traded Set
Common #599
Common Alou and Apodaca

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  #7  
Old 09-09-2018, 08:06 PM
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I could have sworn it was Sears that had the set. I remember my Grandmother picking one up for me. It was either 4.99 or 5.99 if memory serves me correct.
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Old 09-09-2018, 09:47 PM
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Could have been available by Christmas 1973 but it would have been a tight fit. All of the transactions in the "traded" set were completed by December 11, 1973.

"This was the 1st year Topps issued their cards all at once" Not exactly
It was the first year they were only available all at once, however.
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Last edited by nolemmings; 09-09-2018 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 09-10-2018, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolemmings View Post
Could have been available by Christmas 1973 but it would have been a tight fit. All of the transactions in the "traded" set were completed by December 11, 1973.

"This was the 1st year Topps issued their cards all at once" Not exactly
It was the first year they were only available all at once, however.
Which brings to mind a tiff of sorts in a prior thread
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Old 09-10-2018, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolemmings View Post
Could have been available by Christmas 1973 but it would have been a tight fit. All of the transactions in the "traded" set were completed by December 11, 1973.

"This was the 1st year Topps issued their cards all at once" Not exactly
It was the first year they were only available all at once, however.
No, 1974 Topps weren't available until April 1974. The traded cards weren't released until the summer. These were sold at the end of 1974.
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:59 PM
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No, 1974 Topps weren't available until April 1974. The traded cards weren't released until the summer. These were sold at the end of 1974.
1974 Rack Packs, including the traded cards, were available well before summer in New York City. I used to buy racks from a toy wholesaler on the NYC lower east side. I remember being frustrated at the disproportionate number of traded cards when sorting opened packs to make sets.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moeson View Post
1974 Rack Packs, including the traded cards, were available well before summer in New York City. I used to buy racks from a toy wholesaler on the NYC lower east side. I remember being frustrated at the disproportionate number of traded cards when sorting opened packs to make sets.
I was always able to get Raks in Nassua County, Long Island, in March and sometimes very early March, in the early 70's. After 12/11/73 but prior to Christmas '73 would be way too tight a window for the complete boxed set. Christmas 74 seems much more likely but also available prior? I have to think most stuff in the old Sears and Penneys catalog et al had to be locked in sometime in June or July at the latest as they would make orders for xx sets.

Now, I googled the 1974 Wish Book and alas it is not yet on this site but be prepared to spend the rest of your night surfing here: http://www.wishbookweb.com/

Last edited by toppcat; 09-11-2018 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:25 PM
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So did the first print run have the Padres designation, then Washington, then San Diego again? If not, it seems real odd that they would change the Freisleben card from Washington to two different-sized San Diego Padres fonts (unless maybe there were two different printers).
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Old 09-10-2018, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moeson View Post
1974 Rack Packs, including the traded cards, were available well before summer in New York City. I used to buy racks from a toy wholesaler on the NYC lower east side. I remember being frustrated at the disproportionate number of traded cards when sorting opened packs to make sets.
There were no traded cards in the boxes of 1974 Topps that I bought in April. They came much later, maybe before late June, but I don't know what you mean by "well before" because we are only talking about a 2 month window. There was definitely a significant amount of time where traded cards weren't in packs of 1974 Topps.

The Washington National League cards were definitely in the first printing of cards and replaced quickly with San Diego Padres cards. There were multiple printings of 1974 Topps. I believe that San Diego cards replaced Washington cards before the Traded Cards were added to the print run. So, there would have been at least 2 different print runs for Padres cards.
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:32 PM
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Maybe someone here can check their January 1974 edition of the Trader Speaks for some info, as a few of the cards are pictured on the cover.
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Old 09-11-2018, 06:25 AM
moeson moeson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolemmings View Post
Maybe someone here can check their January 1974 edition of the Trader Speaks for some info, as a few of the cards are pictured on the cover.

I don't believe that issue had an article on the set. Here is a review from an early April 1974 issue of the Ballcard Collector which discusses the inclusion of traded cards, as well as San Diego and Washington versions of Rich Morales in the same box.
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
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I don't believe that issue had an article on the set. Here is a review from an early April 1974 issue of the Ballcard Collector which discusses the inclusion of traded cards, as well as San Diego and Washington versions of Rich Morales in the same box.
Thanks for posting this. In addition vintage breaks has been busting 8 card wax packs on YouTube and some of the packs have contained both a traded card and a Washington Padres card. No team CL’s though. John
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Old 09-11-2018, 06:35 PM
deweyinthehall deweyinthehall is online now
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I'm relatively new to this forum, and I love this discussion.

Interesting the way he described the red-bordered team checklists - as if he hadn't seen the 73 blue version...I've heard that some collectors back then were unaware that the checklists were even issued because of odd distribution.

As to the 1974s, when I was building my set I did some research and found some information which painted the following picture:

1) All 1974 sheets were proofed initially solely with San Diego designations
2) O/a December 6 when the league approved the sale to DC, the sheets were re-done to reflect Washington; this includes all 5 sheets. They weren't lettered in 1974, so arbitrarily listing them here alphabetically:

A - Grubb, Troedson, Grief, Colbert, Jones, Team, Beckert, McCovey
B - Kendall, Hilton, Romo
C - Roberts, Gaston, Morales
D - Arlin, Alou, Winfield, Tolan, Corkins, Hernandez, Freisleben Rookie, Lee
E - Corrales, Thomas, Murrell

3) Even though issued in a single series, they were still apparently printed in consecutive batches - sheets A, B, and then C went to press before D and E. It was after Kroc bought the team that they stopped the presses to assess the situation - too many of the first three sheets had been printed to take a loss and reprint from scratch with San Diego, so they knowingly let all the printed Washington cards into circulation, reformatted the sheets, and began printing them with San Diego (Washington cards from sheet C appear to be scarcer than the rest, so perhaps fewer of sheet C had been printed when they changed over.

4) The other two sheets were reformatted, and as far as anyone knows none were ever printed, let alone cut, with the Washington designation (so, no Winfield Washington rookies out there to be found). When they examined sheet D, they simply missed Freisleben because they didn't look closely at the 4 player rookies. After that sheet had gone through a lot of print runs, they discovered what had happened, and hastily put San Diego on his card, and started the presses. Then, someone with an eagle eye saw the font was different from the other rookie cards. They stopped again and created the accurate "small lettering" version, and resumed. They got so deep into the print run that the Washington version of Freisleben is the common version. The small lettering is hard to find - it took me a while to find one in NM shape that wasn't slabbed.

Anyway, just FYI for anyone who didn't know or might find it interesting.

And, as a bonus, here's a photo I downloaded from a Padres' fan site a long time ago of the very same Freisleben in the uniform of the ill-fated Washington Stars.
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Old 09-11-2018, 06:57 PM
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Great post
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:02 PM
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I am convinced the 1973 Team Checklists were only issued in the inclusive packs and not in the series packs. I opened enough of 1973 packs in series and never saw a team checklist. I'm going from memory but I'm pretty sure I was told those Blue Team Checklists were only in those five-series "test" packs.

That does explain why those are much tougher than the 1974 counterparts.

I opened enough 1974 packs and never pulled a Washington NL from the packs and I think I opened my first packs in spring break March 1974. I also never got an Aaron until the day after he hit #715 and I thought that was just a bizarre coincidence.

I think it took me till May to get traded cards and the team checklists were also in those packs. This is all memory and 44 years later while its good its not perfect

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Old 09-11-2018, 11:51 PM
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Great info on the 74's. Very cool!!

We opened 8 million wax packs, cellos and rack packs in 1973 (on Long Island and in NYC) and never got one of those blue team checklists. Much like the 1975 minis, I had no idea they even existed until many, many years later.
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:57 AM
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Old thread on CU...
https://forums.collectors.com/discus...ps-factory-set

This is cool too. From the pattern of the cards, they look just like vending...
http://www.milehighcardco.com/1974-t...-lot24813.aspx
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Old 09-12-2018, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Klein View Post
I am convinced the 1973 Team Checklists were only issued in the inclusive packs and not in the series packs. I opened enough of 1973 packs in series and never saw a team checklist. I'm going from memory but I'm pretty sure I was told those Blue Team Checklists were only in those five-series "test" packs.

That does explain why those are much tougher than the 1974 counterparts.

I opened enough 1974 packs and never pulled a Washington NL from the packs and I think I opened my first packs in spring break March 1974. I also never got an Aaron until the day after he hit #715 and I thought that was just a bizarre coincidence.

I think it took me till May to get traded cards and the team checklists were also in those packs. This is all memory and 44 years later while its good its not perfect

Rich
I have 3 1974 (yes empty) boxes still from 1974. Two are designated 1-302-70-01-4 and one is 1-301-70-01-4. The "301" box is exactly the same as the "302" box except that on the box side panel facing front it has "Bonus Team Checklist Inside!". Doesn't mean they were not in the "302" box, but something changed.

I got a ton of traded cards as well, so those may have come in the "302" box or even another one after that. I don't remember pulling any Washington variation cards, so they could well have been mixed in with the San Diego boxes (or at least certain, early shipped ones).

Based on me never getting any 1973 high numbers nor blue checklists in packs, I would tend to agree with your view on those.
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Old 09-12-2018, 04:41 PM
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The blue checklists being in "all 660" packs in 73 makes a ton of sense.
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Old 09-12-2018, 06:34 PM
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It may make a ton of sense, but I'm here to tell you it didn't happen. I had over 1500 cards pulled from all-660 packs in 1973, with nary a single checklist.
You may recall that this was discussed a few years ago:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...hlight=simpson
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:19 PM
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There must have been a lot hair pulling and chaos at Topps in December 1973. What I'm unclear about is why Topps felt the need to have its entire set not only proofed but nearly or entirely ready to go in December, months before they would sell it at retail.

I haven't put a great deal of research into it, but it seems that the timeline goes something like this (from a few different sources not always in precise agreement):

May, 1973-- Padres are sold by Smith, who has IRS and other financial problems
May-June, 1973-- buyer/prospective owner makes serious noise about moving the team to Washington, possibly before end of season
late Fall 1973-- City of San Diego files multiple suits, seeking stadium rent for the remainder of a long lease term--and at some point wins
September 1973--owners quoted as being against move, Bowie Kuhn advocates for D.C.
December 6, 1973-- league approves sale to Washington conditionally- conditions to be met in 15 days; NL schedule printed with Wash. D.C.
December, 1973 later-- New ownership group unable to pull it all together in view of risks/costs
December/January: League looks at keeping team in S.D under league ownership, still fishing for other local buyer in Cal; one prospect fails
January, 1974: different Washington ownership group makes a play--unsuccessful
January 25, 1974: Ray Kroc buys the team, keeping it in San Diego

What was the hurry to print before December 6, and the rush to make corrections in such uncertain circumstances?
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Old 09-13-2018, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolemmings View Post
It may make a ton of sense, but I'm here to tell you it didn't happen. I had over 1500 cards pulled from all-660 packs in 1973, with nary a single checklist.
You may recall that this was discussed a few years ago:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...hlight=simpson
Your earlier post references a book by a Mr. Erbe in 1981 - what book is that?
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Old 09-13-2018, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolemmings View Post
There must have been a lot hair pulling and chaos at Topps in December 1973. What I'm unclear about is why Topps felt the need to have its entire set not only proofed but nearly or entirely ready to go in December, months before they would sell it at retail.

I haven't put a great deal of research into it, but it seems that the timeline goes something like this (from a few different sources not always in precise agreement):

May, 1973-- Padres are sold by Smith, who has IRS and other financial problems
May-June, 1973-- buyer/prospective owner makes serious noise about moving the team to Washington, possibly before end of season
late Fall 1973-- City of San Diego files multiple suits, seeking stadium rent for the remainder of a long lease term--and at some point wins
September 1973--owners quoted as being against move, Bowie Kuhn advocates for D.C.
December 6, 1973-- league approves sale to Washington conditionally- conditions to be met in 15 days; NL schedule printed with Wash. D.C.
December, 1973 later-- New ownership group unable to pull it all together in view of risks/costs
December/January: League looks at keeping team in S.D under league ownership, still fishing for other local buyer in Cal; one prospect fails
January, 1974: different Washington ownership group makes a play--unsuccessful
January 25, 1974: Ray Kroc buys the team, keeping it in San Diego

What was the hurry to print before December 6, and the rush to make corrections in such uncertain circumstances?

Lead times were a lot longer then. Plus the process was much slower than it is today. Everything had to be proofed so it was ready to go, and Topps did a LOT of proofing. Our place did maybe one photographic proof, and that was about it. Topps did several different types of proofs all the way through the design process.

The actual printing would have taken a while, but probably not months for the initial runs. Then packing would have been a bit longer. And all that would have to be timed with other products, like other sports, and whatever non- sports they were doing to fill in the gap between seasons. Hockey and basketball would have been active products, and maybe wacky packs? I forget what was out there overall. Plus printing for some non- card products.
Printing the boxes


Then they'd have to pack and ship orders. Some places do it in big batches, others do it package by package. There may have been a date that wholesalers had to wait for before shipping. Or retailers may have simply held off until the season began. Not a major issue for big chains, but the local convenience store would probably wait till the season, and for a couple other things to sell out first.


One of my friends families owned a 5+10 when I was in High school, in 1981 I convinced him that they should carry all three brands of cards. They did, but around the season opener. The local card shop had had them since I think February. The sales cycle was still pretty much the same then.
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:49 AM
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Paul Wright created this chart for a Baseball Card News? article back in the 90's. Indicates there were 5 different types of 1974 baseball wax packs.

The raw packs vintagebreaks.com is opening on youtube are the 8 card all 660version. Washington N.L. and traded cards are included in these packs. They have also broken a graded 8 card + bonus team CL pack.
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Old 09-13-2018, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
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Your earlier post references a book by a Mr. Erbe in 1981 - what book is that?
That must be this. I have a copy and wore it out back in the day looking stuff up. It had distinct advantages over Beckett with a wider range of sets and an alphabetical checklist.

In addition, some of you you may recall I worked for Current Card Prices when it was launched. Richie Schwararoch, who owned it, ripped out pages from a copy of this book and we marked them up for the typist who put together our original lists in the 'zine. I remember calling Ralph Nozaki up and checking on certain variations as part of this process.
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Last edited by toppcat; 09-13-2018 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 09-13-2018, 03:27 PM
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I am thoroughly enjoying reading this thread. As a fan of the 1974 set, it is great to see this much discussion. I realize that the design and lack of rookies has not endeared this set to many. However, this thread shows that it is, at the very least, one of the more intriguing sets of the decade.
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:03 PM
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Well, I think it's time to show some cards. I love the 1974 set!!!! Here's a sampling of the cool shots...

1974a.jpg
1974b.jpg
1974c.jpg
1974d.jpg
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:18 PM
deweyinthehall deweyinthehall is online now
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I've always thought 1974 was a great set - I'd put it at 4th best of the 70s after 78, 72, and 76.

I started collecting in 1978, so 74 was one of those sets I first discovered looking through a big old shoe box full of loose cards belonging to a friend who began collecting before me. The first card I ever owned was a beat-up Gail Hopkins of the Royals.

Here are just a few of way to many favorites I have to list (sorry if they are duplicates of those already listed -for some reason I can't see those). And yes, Hopkins is here.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg topps1974-95F.jpg (63.7 KB, 440 views)
File Type: jpg topps1974-105F.jpg (77.6 KB, 436 views)
File Type: jpg topps1974-130F.jpg (61.1 KB, 435 views)
File Type: jpg topps1974-238F.jpg (56.5 KB, 441 views)
File Type: jpg topps1974-461F.jpg (68.8 KB, 441 views)
File Type: jpg topps1974-588F.jpg (65.1 KB, 439 views)
File Type: jpg topps1974-595F.jpg (58.5 KB, 438 views)
File Type: jpg topps1974-652F.jpg (55.8 KB, 439 views)
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Old 09-13-2018, 05:22 PM
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This is my favorite along with the Ryan and Schmidt

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Old 09-13-2018, 05:36 PM
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Love the pics of cards. The 1974 Ryan and Seaver cards are my favorite pitcher “action” shots of all time.
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Old 09-14-2018, 07:03 AM
darkhorse9 darkhorse9 is offline
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The Billy Williams card always bugged me. What the heck is going on with all that yellow in the background?
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Old 09-14-2018, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse9 View Post
The Billy Williams card always bugged me. What the heck is going on with all that yellow in the background?
I believe they just wanted to offer some contrast so that you could make out Billy clearly, although it's not the greatest shot of him anyway, IMO. The Fisk bears a little of the same trait.

I always loved the design of the 1974 set. Actually, I find the set as a whole to be one of my favorites from the decade---'71 is maybe nicer when found in high grade and no chipping. Underrated because of the lack of star power rookies, IMO. The Aaron subset was really cool back in the day.
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Old 09-14-2018, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
Lead times were a lot longer then. Plus the process was much slower than it is today. Everything had to be proofed so it was ready to go, and Topps did a LOT of proofing. Our place did maybe one photographic proof, and that was about it. Topps did several different types of proofs all the way through the design process.

The actual printing would have taken a while, but probably not months for the initial runs. Then packing would have been a bit longer. And all that would have to be timed with other products, like other sports, and whatever non- sports they were doing to fill in the gap between seasons. Hockey and basketball would have been active products, and maybe wacky packs? I forget what was out there overall. Plus printing for some non- card products.
Printing the boxes


Then they'd have to pack and ship orders. Some places do it in big batches, others do it package by package. There may have been a date that wholesalers had to wait for before shipping. Or retailers may have simply held off until the season began. Not a major issue for big chains, but the local convenience store would probably wait till the season, and for a couple other things to sell out first.


One of my friends families owned a 5+10 when I was in High school, in 1981 I convinced him that they should carry all three brands of cards. They did, but around the season opener. The local card shop had had them since I think February. The sales cycle was still pretty much the same then.
Thanks Steve. It still seems kind of baffling to me that they couldn't wait 2-3 weeks and see if the Washington thing was really likely to happen, given the lawsuits and conditions that needed to be met.

Has anyone seen a proof of sheet #5? I ask because Denny Doyle, who had been traded December 6, is shown with his new Angels team in the regular set, while Jim Mason, traded the same day, is not, and both are included in the higher numbers (#552 and #618) and Mason is shown with his new Yankee squad on the traded set. The Doyle card is a nondescript shot of him with some minor sort of airbrush job, almost certainly swapped out late from a better photo. I wonder if the proof sheet would show a different pic of Doyle. Also seems they could have corrected Mason in the regular set but chose otherwise. Since all of their "trades" were completed just 5 days after December 6, 1973, it makes you wonder why they couldn't wait another week, although maybe the plan all along was to have a traded set and they needed to fill it with players.
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:56 PM
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I'm sure their printing deadlines were very tight back then, needing to get the thing done and out before moving on to the next endeavor. They probably didn't have the luxury of waiting another week to finish up...much to our dismay decades later.

Your Doyle/Mason conundrum reminds me of how Topps treated the Jim Fregosi/Nolan Ryan trade in the 1972 set. Fregosi had his regular card and received a 'coveted' Traded card in the high series, while The Ryan Express only appeared once, as an airbrushed member of his new team, the California Angels, in the regular set. A real shame.
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Old 09-14-2018, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyElm View Post
I'm sure their printing deadlines were very tight back then, needing to get the thing done and out before moving on to the next endeavor. They probably didn't have the luxury of waiting another week to finish up...much to our dismay decades later.

Your Doyle/Mason conundrum reminds me of how Topps treated the Jim Fregosi/Nolan Ryan trade in the 1972 set. Fregosi had his regular card and received a 'coveted' Traded card in the high series, while The Ryan Express only appeared once, as an airbrushed member of his new team, the California Angels, in the regular set. A real shame.
Fregosi was a 1st series card. Nolan Ryan was a 5th series card. The traded cards were 6th series. In fact, 5 of the 7 traded cards were 1st series cards with only McLain (2nd series) and Carlton (4th series) coming later. You also have to look at when these trades occurred. Most happened between Nov 29 and Dec 10, so by then the 1st series must have been too far a long to get players on their new teams. the McLain trade (Mar 4) and Carlton trade (Feb 28) were even later, so by the end of Feb., Topps must have been too far along with the first 4 series. Ryan was traded on Dec. 10, so being 5th series that would have been enough time to get him on the right team. The 6th series was late enough to catch McLain getting traded on March 4.
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:19 PM
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The more I think about it, the more I believe that the traded set had been configured by mid-December. Topps decided upon a 44 card set, which is one sheet with the cards printed thrice. There’s no way they can count on there being that many total trades in December/January–recent past history strongly suggested otherwise–much less trades of meaningful players worthy of their own cards. Thus they already had to know that almost if not all of the trades were in the bank before going forward. As it turns out, 39 of the 43 players in the traded set switched teams between December 3 and December 11, with the others having done so earlier.

By December 12, then, Topps probably had its traded set composition, and it was just a matter of airbrushing selected photos and drafting some brief text for the card backs. If they tried to acknowledge a change in the regular set, there would a hole to fill to get back to 43 Traded (plus checklist), and they would have to count on subsequent player movement, little of which really happened (the only trades involving players on a regular 1974 card made between 12/11/73 and 2/1/74 were for Jack Aker, Mike Ryan and Jackie Hernandez, the latter two being swapped on the last day of January).

Sooooooooooooooo, instead of having planned all along to have a traded set, it seems to me Topps was so overwhelmed with player movement in that first week plus of December that they knew they couldn’t make all necessary changes before print time and decided to issue a traded set because they knew they would have 43 players to fill it. Rather than changing a couple or so of these in the regular set and then wait for the January trades, they finalized their selection well before year end, and printed the Traded set then or shortly thereafter.
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Old 09-15-2018, 07:56 PM
steve B steve B is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolemmings View Post
Thanks Steve. It still seems kind of baffling to me that they couldn't wait 2-3 weeks and see if the Washington thing was really likely to happen, given the lawsuits and conditions that needed to be met.

Has anyone seen a proof of sheet #5? I ask because Denny Doyle, who had been traded December 6, is shown with his new Angels team in the regular set, while Jim Mason, traded the same day, is not, and both are included in the higher numbers (#552 and #618) and Mason is shown with his new Yankee squad on the traded set. The Doyle card is a nondescript shot of him with some minor sort of airbrush job, almost certainly swapped out late from a better photo. I wonder if the proof sheet would show a different pic of Doyle. Also seems they could have corrected Mason in the regular set but chose otherwise. Since all of their "trades" were completed just 5 days after December 6, 1973, it makes you wonder why they couldn't wait another week, although maybe the plan all along was to have a traded set and they needed to fill it with players.

I wouldn't be surprised to see proofs of Doyle both ways.


The one I've always wondered about was one I heard as a kid rumor in 74, which was the first set I really collected, aside from a bit in late 73.

Supposedly there was confusion about who would be the As manager, so the card had a question mark instead of a picture of a manager.

Al Dark was signed on Feb 20, so that shouldn't have been a problem. But there'd been some legal wrangling about Dick Williams being under contract so he couldn't manage the Yankees. (Why that wouldn't have affected the Yankees manager card the same way I have no idea, it was a 5th grade rumor. ) So maybe it's plausible?
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Old 09-15-2018, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolemmings View Post
The more I think about it, the more I believe that the traded set had been configured by mid-December. Topps decided upon a 44 card set, which is one sheet with the cards printed thrice. There’s no way they can count on there being that many total trades in December/January–recent past history strongly suggested otherwise–much less trades of meaningful players worthy of their own cards. Thus they already had to know that almost if not all of the trades were in the bank before going forward. As it turns out, 39 of the 43 players in the traded set switched teams between December 3 and December 11, with the others having done so earlier.

By December 12, then, Topps probably had its traded set composition, and it was just a matter of airbrushing selected photos and drafting some brief text for the card backs. If they tried to acknowledge a change in the regular set, there would a hole to fill to get back to 43 Traded (plus checklist), and they would have to count on subsequent player movement, little of which really happened (the only trades involving players on a regular 1974 card made between 12/11/73 and 2/1/74 were for Jack Aker, Mike Ryan and Jackie Hernandez, the latter two being swapped on the last day of January).

Sooooooooooooooo, instead of having planned all along to have a traded set, it seems to me Topps was so overwhelmed with player movement in that first week plus of December that they knew they couldn’t make all necessary changes before print time and decided to issue a traded set because they knew they would have 43 players to fill it. Rather than changing a couple or so of these in the regular set and then wait for the January trades, they finalized their selection well before year end, and printed the Traded set then or shortly thereafter.

That's pretty interesting.


The actual press sheets are 264 cards, So there would have been an "extra" sheet to use for the traded set, or the team checklists. I wonder..... amaybe they replaced one of the sheets with Washington players with the traded set, at least for a while.


Ah Topps, such simple sets with so much mystery.
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Old 12-13-2019, 06:29 PM
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So did we conclusively determine if the '74 factory set contained the red team checklists?

Did it contain the Washington variations or the Padres?

Did it contain the other variations (Apodaco, no position Alou)?

Which version of the Freisleben did it have - Washington, large San Diego or small San Diego?
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Old 12-14-2019, 06:53 AM
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I just posted on the 74 factory sets and got some info from someone who has one. Traded and Red Checklists no (amended thinking per next post), Wash NL no, not sure about #599's font-didn't get that info:

http://toppsarchives.blogspot.com/20...tle-thing.html

Last edited by toppcat; 12-14-2019 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:03 PM
Arsenal83 Arsenal83 is offline
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I'm the Brian you cited in your blog. Steve from BBCE thinks the red checklists did come in the factory sets, but a few members on the Collectors Universe forum are saying that the red checklists were inserts that weren't included in factory sets.

To update your page, undisturbed factory sets did have the vending pattern.

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Old 12-14-2019, 05:40 PM
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Outstanding, gonna update tomorrow,on the red checkists too.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:15 PM
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I've got a NM empty factory set box with flaps all intact so if you need any images, just let me know.
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Old 12-16-2019, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal83 View Post
I've got a NM empty factory set box with flaps all intact so if you need any images, just let me know.
Thanks Brian, think I am good, update is already posted in the original post. Amazing how little information is out there on these.
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Old 12-16-2019, 06:27 PM
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If all the cards came out at the same time, instead of by Series, why didn't all the San Diego player cards have Washington Variations instead of only some of them ?
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