Ohtani ROY, really?????

[clydepepper]

Another thing to consider are that today's game is tilted towards power hitting and hitting in a lineup as loaded as the Yankees has advantages over lineups that are less so...like the Angels.



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[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Another thing to consider are that today's game is tilted towards power hitting and hitting in a lineup as loaded as the Yankees has advantages over lineups that are less so...like the Angels.



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Through late July(or about half his season), Ohtani typically batted 6th or higher in the order and was hitting in the .250s. with 9 HRs. Over the last 2 months of the season he he moved up in the batting ahead sometimes ahead of Trout but in front of Upton and his batting took off as he was seeing much better pitching batting 3rd or 4th in the order than 6th.

In the majority of Yankeee games this season, Andujar batted most typically 6-8th in the line up with no one hitting behind him. Late in the season (Sept) with Judge out, he batted 4th with Didi behind him.....Didi was the best hitter to hit behind him all season.

So if these two player's line-ups were considered when voting, Ohtani benefitted much more from his line-up than did Andujar.


At least the writers got the NL ROY correct.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Through late July(or about half his season), Ohtani typically batted 6th or higher in the order and was hitting in the .250s. with 9 HRs. Over the last 2 months of the season he he moved up in the batting ahead sometimes ahead of Trout but in front of Upton and his batting took off as he was seeing much better pitching batting 3rd or 4th in the order than 6th.

In the majority of Yankeee games this season, Andujar batted most typically 6-8th in the line up with no one hitting behind him. Late in the season (Sept) with Judge out, he batted 4th with Didi behind him.....Didi was the best hitter to hit behind him all season.

So if these two player's line-ups were considered when voting, Ohtani benefitted much more from his line-up than did Andujar.


At least the writers got the NL ROY correct.

...and at least you got that right! LOL (imo)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

...and at least you got that right! LOL (imo)

Soto and Acuna were very close I thought.
Look just how close.
https://herosports.com/mlb/player-co...s-ronald-acuna

[savedfrommyspokes]

IMO, both Acuna and Ohtani were the pre-season favorites to win this award. They both clearly benefited from the plethora of hype they began receiving back in spring training.


Soto (once finally called up a month or so after Acuna) had significant hype surrounding him as did Gleyber Torres. In July, my bet on AL ROY would have been Torres after coming off the DL and being selected for the AS game following his torrid start.

Andujar, who received far less hype than the other four, at the start of the season was 3rd on the NYY depth chart at 3rd base. So with little to no hype most of the season he came out of no where and put up a great season.

I get that Andujar received no where near the same hype as the others and he didn't have an intriguing story so lacking in both intangibles clearly worked against him in regards to winning the ROY, but he had a great rookie season ....

[packs]

Andujar deserved the award for the same reason people were saying Beltre was a HOFer before he got to 3,000: there aren't a whole lot of third basemen who can hit. If being a power hitting third basemen can get you into the HOF, it should win you the ROY too. Power hitting DH's are a dime a dozen. Who cares if they pitched 50 innings.

Andujar's oWAR was 4.6. Ohtani's was only 2.7. Andujar was a superior hitter. His fielding would be the only knock but then again Ohtani wasn't playing the field either.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by packs

Andujar deserved the award for the same reason people were saying Beltre was a HOFer before he got to 3,000: there aren't a whole lot of third basemen who can hit. If being a power hitting third basemen can get you into the HOF, it should win you the ROY too. Power hitting DH's are a dime a dozen. Who cares if they pitched 50 innings.

Andujar's oWAR was 4.6. Ohtani's was only 2.7. Andujar was a superior hitter. His fielding would be the only knock but then again Ohtani wasn't playing the field either.

Last I checked Andujar wasn't pitching...

[Snapolit1]

There are two types of baseball fans.

Those who think that New York players are screwed out of national awards every year because writers from other cities want to get their revenge and stick it to New York.

And those who think that New York players are unduly favored every year because the media are always obsessed with New York players.

The latter group will be out in full force later today after DeGrom wins (rightfully so) the NL Cy Young.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

There are two types of baseball fans.

Those who think that New York players are screwed out of national awards every year because writers from other cities want to get their revenge and stick it to New York.

And those who think that New York players are unduly favored every year because the media are always obsessed with New York players.

The latter group will be out in full force later today after DeGrom wins (rightfully so) the NL Cy Young.

If DeGrom wins, that might just debunk the theory that the player with the highest WAR wins/deserves the award. Just like in 2015 when Donaldson won the MVP award with a WAR less than Trout.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

If DeGrom wins, that might just debunk the theory that the player with the highest WAR wins/deserves the award. Just like in 2015 when Donaldson won the MVP award with a WAR less than Trout.

Again, not really sure what you are talking about.
bWAR deGrom 10.0 Scherzer 9.5
fWAR deGrom 8.8 Scherzer 7.2.
deGrom led all MLB pitchers in WAR.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by rats60

Again, not really sure what you are talking about.
bWAR deGrom 10.0 Scherzer 9.5
fWAR deGrom 8.8 Scherzer 7.2.
deGrom led all MLB pitchers in WAR.

Unfortunately I have to quote you "AGAIN, not really sure what you are talking about":

http://www.espn.com/mlb/war/leaders

Nola 10.5
DeGrom 9.6
Scherzer 8.8 but is not even in the final 3


At some point maybe you will realize that WAR is not the be all, end all measurement of who is a better baseball player ....it is merely an approximation of value to a player's team and IMO, at times insanely inconsistent/irrelevant.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Unfortunately I have to quote you "AGAIN, not really sure what you are talking about":

http://www.espn.com/mlb/war/leaders

Nola 10.5
DeGrom 9.6
Scherzer 8.8 but is not even in the final 3


At some point maybe you will realize that WAR is not the be all, end all measurement of who is a better baseball player ....it is merely an approximation of value to a player's team and IMO, at times insanely inconsistent/irrelevant.

You are the first person that I have ever seen that uses ESPN for WAR. The 2 sites who have been doing it for years have deGrom as the best pitcher in baseball.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Unfortunately I have to quote you "AGAIN, not really sure what you are talking about":


Scherzer 8.8 but is not even in the final 3

Really? From your favorite site

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...manager-awards

The Mets' Jacob deGrom, Washington's Max Scherzer and Philadelphia's Aaron Nola are the top three for the NL Cy Young Award, with deGrom favored to win for the first time despite a 10-9 record.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

If DeGrom wins, that might just debunk the theory that the player with the highest WAR wins/deserves the award. Just like in 2015 when Donaldson won the MVP award with a WAR less than Trout.

A pitcher can only throw the ball. Can't score more runs than the other team.

[vintagewhitesox]

Ohtani did something that hasnt been done in over 100 years. That should put him over the yankees guy, in my opinion.