Jeter SP Foil auction

[BLongley]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Eh...I think it is disingenuous to post Palmeiro's stats without naming him, then asking if the player should be in the Hall of Fame. Palmeiro is one of the most notorious steroid guys of his era. There is a gigantic reason he is not in the HoF, and it has nothing at all to do with his numbers.

You think Palmerio would be in the Hall if he put up those numbers and didn't take steroids? I can't remember any big game moments with him and I grew up watching him and others... should Fred McGriff be in the Hall? He hit 493 HRs same as Lou Gehrig...

Palmerio proves my point exactly and there are others we can find and use if you want... Jeter played during an Era of steroid users and batted against pitchers taking them too... two players that Stach mentions as being better short stops than Jeter are notorious roid users too... Tejada and ARod...my point is that it's not all about the numbers and I did name Palmerio at the end... I'm just trying to let you all know how I'm thinking...

[steve B]

A few random thoughts on the last several posts.

Big game moments..... Meh, otherwise I'll be happy to see Kirk Gibson in the hall. Some of Jeters "big" moments were I felt overrated. he backed up a play and didn't lose focus staying with the play. Yep, that's what a major leaguer does.
dive into the stands after a ball? Yep, same deal.
Both very good plays, and on the other side, I saw another Yankee player in the late 70's early 80's make an almost identical dive into the stands at Fenway and lose the ball, his hat, glove, and nearly jersey.... Yes, Jeter got a bit more respect. they also got out of the way, which is why he hit his head on the seat.... Hmmm ... respect?

Banks and Yount didn't win world series etc.
Don't you think that says more about their teams than them?
If it was all about one guy, the 78 series could have been decided by the Allstar break, instead of after that other shortstop who won't be named hit just his 5th HR of the year in the last game/extra game of the regular season.

There's a reason we chanted "Nomars better" as much as a year or two after Nomar got traded, even at the point where he just wasn't better anymore.


I do have to say that even though he was a Yankee, I did respect Jeter and how he played the game as well as his overall attitude. When he was asked about being booed in Boston for so long he said the fans of the two cities were a lot alike, and that being booed meant that the fans of the other team recognized you were actually pretty good as they usually didn't bother doing that to the bad players. It's pretty hard to dislike a guy who plays hard and seems to understand the fans too.

[BLongley]

"he backed up a play and didn't lose focus staying with the play. Yep, that's what a major leaguer does."

Go watch those plays again and I'd be curious if you said the same thing...

As I mentioned I'm a Yankee and Jeter fan so I know I'm biased, but I will recognize other great plays by players when they are great!

[steve B]

Originally Posted by BLongley

"he backed up a play and didn't lose focus staying with the play. Yep, that's what a major leaguer does."

Go watch those plays again and I'd be curious if you said the same thing...

As I mentioned I'm a Yankee and Jeter fan so I know I'm biased, but I will recognize other great plays by players when they are great!

Most pros can make really great plays. Didn't catch the time on many of them, but the ones at 1:06 and 2:10 are particularly nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRUu7yNmLXo

A few more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5qbaKuai7o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U5Yu8y0LmU

The one here at 1:13 is really similar to another play of Jeters that was raved about as the "greatest play ever"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDgL91zBVLo


None of that is to say that Jeter wasn't an excellent player and fielder. Some of the plays that are his best were I think a product of having a lot of awareness of where the throw or play in general was going and the ability to both see that and put himself in the place he needed to be to have any chance of making the play work. That's something that isn't really teachable and doesn't always rely on raw athletic ability.

[BLongley]

Ok, here is Jeter just backing up the relay in the ALDS (Yanks down 2 games to 0 on verge of elimination)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ApoJk9X7Vto


Here is an ALCS play
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oxzR0RKRWTQ

I get it you don't want to post Jeters, you want to post the top plays from around the league over different years. You're a Red Sox fan it's tough to do! But it is a compliment to Jeter that you had to search for greatest plays in history to find similar plays.

The dive against the Red Sox:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=seC63AEk4-8

Originally Posted by steve B

Most pros can make really great plays. Didn't catch the time on many of them, but the ones at 1:06 and 2:10 are particularly nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRUu7yNmLXo

A few more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5qbaKuai7o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U5Yu8y0LmU

The one here at 1:13 is really similar to another play of Jeters that was raved about as the "greatest play ever"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDgL91zBVLo


None of that is to say that Jeter wasn't an excellent player and fielder. Some of the plays that are his best were I think a product of having a lot of awareness of where the throw or play in general was going and the ability to both see that and put himself in the place he needed to be to have any chance of making the play work. That's something that isn't really teachable and doesn't always rely on raw athletic ability.

[BLongley]

And here is Jeter making a tough play on Big Papi at second

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KKGs-Jzy09M

[steve B]

It's probably more appropriate for the sports watercooler, but since we're here...

Plays like that one on Ortiz are some of my favorites. That both players could kid each other after says a lot about them. I can't ever recall Ortiz being accused of being a great baserunner... Good enough, but not exactly a speedster. That might just be Jeters greatest play ever!!!!!

The flip play was the one I was thinking of most when I mentioned awareness. I believe most pros, especially shortstops and second basemen could make the play physically.
What was hard was knowing the throw was going to be past the firs baseman and off line, and getting over to be in position to make the play. That's the part of it that impresses me.
Looking at the slow motion of the tag, at the end of that video, I think the ump called it wrong. But that's practically ancient history and it was very close. Sometimes I think there's a "great play" fudge factor to some calls. and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

The jump and long throw was good, maybe a bit better than most. But for a while, it was almost routine for AL shortstops. Jeter and Nomar made plays like that regularly, and Arod, and Tejada weren't far behind. I looked for Garciaparra highlights, but most focus on his hitting.

The dive is what it is. It's a bit above and beyond what most players would do, but most of the great ones have that focus on getting the ball and making the play.

On the videos I found, one that stuck out was Boone? and Rose. Catcher and 1b pursue a foul, catcher just misses it but the 1b is there to grab the ball. Jeter made a nearly identical play and it was hyped for days. Great play, yes! greatest play ever as some writers claimed? Nope. It's that hype that always bugged me.
I used the compilations for a couple reasons. One was that it was quicker and I was a bit lazy. The second was that they showed a lot of excellent plays many of them from players who aren't exactly all time greats.

But yeah, even as a Sox fan, you had to respect Jeter. He always played hard, maybe even a bit extra against the Sox. And I can't really recall him ever complaining about much of anything.

[WillBBC]

I always found this play by Jeter to be his most impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Yt8r9ybS8

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BLongley

You think Palmerio would be in the Hall if he put up those numbers and didn't take steroids? I can't remember any big game moments with him and I grew up watching him and others... should Fred McGriff be in the Hall? He hit 493 HRs same as Lou Gehrig...

Palmerio proves my point exactly and there are others we can find and use if you want... Jeter played during an Era of steroid users and batted against pitchers taking them too... two players that Stach mentions as being better short stops than Jeter are notorious roid users too... Tejada and ARod...my point is that it's not all about the numbers and I did name Palmerio at the end... I'm just trying to let you all know how I'm thinking...

500 HR and 3000 Hits, yeah Palmeiro is in no doubt.