NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-05-2017, 07:04 AM
T206Jim's Avatar
T206Jim T206Jim is offline
J1m Ch@pman
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 608
Default A.J. Shumann Co. Chicago Cubs West Side Grounds RPPC set circa 1908

I wanted to share this Real Photo Post Card ("RPPC") of the main entrance/ticket window of the Chicago Cubs West Side Grounds ballpark circa 1909.

West-Side-Grounds-ticket-office-fron-resized-watermrkedt.jpg

It one of only images I can find of the exterior of the West Side Grounds which was the Cubs home during their 1907 - 1908 championship run. Note the statues on top of the ticket office secured by wires. Also note the sculpted Cubbies holding up the oriel window above the ticket windows and the 75 cent ticket price posted on the shuttered window. The iconic "Chicago National Leauge Baseball Club" lettering is apparent on the chain link fence at the top.

West-Side-Grounds-ticket-office-fron-resized-cropt.jpg

West-Side-Grounds-ticket-office-fron-resizedt-window.jpg

Here is the postcard back showing it was mailed to Maine in August of an indecipherable year.

West-Side-Grounds-ticket-office-back.jpg

I found this RPPC image that is in the same glossy sepia tone and same printed handwriting showing a Cubs/Giants game at the West Side Grounds in 1909 also mailed to Maine in August 1909. They are almost assuredly taken by the same person and mine is probably 1909 as well.

1909 front.jpg

The only other similar photos I can find look similar to this and have the 1908 championship banner hung on the structure.

1908 banner.jpg

Here is another photo I have of the park interior from that era and an enlargement of the "Baseball" lettering that appears to show at least one of the statues with the support wires evident. This orients us to where the front entrance booth was relative to the field of play.

1908-West-Side-Park-Chicago-BW-photo.jpg

West_Side-Grounds-photo-statue-wire.jpg

Does anyone else have images of the Front Entrance/Ticket window to share? I love to see another image of the statues. For me, this rivals the Wilkerson NY stadium RPPCs for one of the best images of a Deadball Era exterior view of a stadium. To me the architectural details just seem to perfectly capture the spirit of the Deadball Era.

Last edited by T206Jim; 04-19-2019 at 11:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-05-2017, 08:21 AM
obcbeatle's Avatar
obcbeatle obcbeatle is offline
Jerry
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 174
Default

Very cool ... thanks for sharing!

I've been replaying the 1908 NY Giants season (Strat-O-Matic/computer) and have been searching for decent pictures of the inside playing fields of all the Deadball Era NL ball parks ... to add to my SOM computer screens. Finding good images of these old ballparks circa 1908 are hard to find. Particularly looking from the spectator point of view (panoramic) of the whole field from behind home plate :-) Anyway ... nice photo's of WSG!
__________________
Collecting: Anything Larry Doyle (my great, great Uncle), Pre-War/Post-War Giants & Post-War Braves. My Wantlist

Selling: Cards and memorabilia I'm weaning from my collection to fund other collecting interests.
https://www.ebay.com/str/recollectionantiques/
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-05-2017, 09:40 AM
Dto7 Dto7 is offline
Don Stokes
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 353
Default

made the photo clearer
Attached Images
File Type: jpg westside2.jpg (77.8 KB, 649 views)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-05-2017, 10:13 AM
slidekellyslide's Avatar
slidekellyslide slidekellyslide is offline
Dan Bretta
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 5,766
Default

The postcard was mailed in 1908. You can see part of the 8 at the bottom of the postmark. Great image. I wonder what ever became of those statutes?
__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-05-2017, 03:11 PM
whitehse whitehse is offline
And.rew Whi.te
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern Wisconsin/Northern Illinois
Posts: 995
Default

As a huge fan of Chicago baseball and it's associated history, this is pretty awesome. I dont think I have seen such detail of the front of the West Side Grounds like this one shows. The cubby bears holding up the window is really cool.

Looking at the statues on the top of the building makes me wonder if this was the inspiration for the pitcher and catcher posted on top of the early Wrigley Field scoreboard seen below.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Wrigley Field old scoreboard.jpg (66.9 KB, 615 views)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-06-2017, 10:57 PM
BeanTown's Avatar
BeanTown BeanTown is offline
Jay Cee
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,144
Default

Love seeing RPPCs which is a piece of American history! You have a great eye for cards Jim
__________________
Love Ty Cobb rare items
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-09-2017, 08:05 PM
WillowGrove's Avatar
WillowGrove WillowGrove is offline
Peter F
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 957
Default

Jim - very cool PC, I bid strong but nice to see it went to a good owner.

I looked through an old Cubs magazine I have and found a couple photos of the statues and a little write up too that I think you'll like.

Again, great purchase. So cool. (and Don, thanks for making clearer!)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg cubs4 001.jpg (72.2 KB, 505 views)
File Type: jpg cubs1 001.jpg (74.4 KB, 504 views)
File Type: jpg cubs2 001 (2).jpg (72.7 KB, 503 views)
File Type: jpg cubs2 001 (3).jpg (73.1 KB, 507 views)
File Type: jpg cubs2 001.jpg (66.0 KB, 502 views)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-09-2017, 08:59 PM
T206Jim's Avatar
T206Jim T206Jim is offline
J1m Ch@pman
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 608
Default

Fantastic magazine article Peter! Is the magazine dated? It seems to imply the statues were put up the prior year.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-10-2017, 04:19 PM
bmarlowe1's Avatar
bmarlowe1 bmarlowe1 is offline
Mark
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,364
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slidekellyslide View Post
The postcard was mailed in 1908. You can see part of the 8 at the bottom of the postmark. Great image. I wonder what ever became of those statutes?
Noting the two cubby bears holding up the bay window, this photo would likely have to have been 1908 or later given that the Chicago NL ballclub did not officially adopt the name "Cubs" until the 1908 season, though it had already been in common usage by newspapers and fans for several years.

Last edited by bmarlowe1; 11-10-2017 at 04:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-02-2017, 07:09 AM
T206Jim's Avatar
T206Jim T206Jim is offline
J1m Ch@pman
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 608
Default

I have just discovered that this postcard was issued by the A.J. Schumann Co. out of Chicago. They did at least two other RPPCs of the West Side Grounds in 1908 as shown below as depicted in Ron Menchine's A Picture Postcard History of Baseball. Some of their postcards had a stamp on back and some did not, a typical stamp is also shown. All of them had the distinctive handwriting on the front which was the hallmark of a Schumann postcard. A.J. Schumann was to Chicago RPPCs of the early 1900s as Thaddeus Wilkerson was to New York postcards during that same era. The work of each are remarkably similar and are real high spots in the RPPC collecting world. It appears that the Schumann PCs are much more rare than the Wilkerson PCs which are scarce themselves. A copy of a Wilkerson Polo Grounds RPPC like the one shown below recently sold at REA for $5,400.

Schumann 1.jpg

Schumann 2.jpg

schumann back stamp.jpg

wilkerson polo.jpg

Last edited by T206Jim; 12-02-2017 at 07:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-02-2017, 10:57 AM
WillowGrove's Avatar
WillowGrove WillowGrove is offline
Peter F
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 957
Default

Jim its funny because the other night i pulled out Menechine's book and saw these and i said to myself, oh ill have to post them for Jim this weekend.


Soooo, i guess I can cross that off my list.

Good work pulling these together.

Are there other answers you're searching for or do you feel pretty good where you are?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-02-2017, 11:07 AM
T206Jim's Avatar
T206Jim T206Jim is offline
J1m Ch@pman
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 608
Default

Thanks Peter! I'm pretty confident that I now know what it is now, but I'd love to know if there are Schumann shots out there and how many total exist. My guess is there may be only single digit amounts of these out there total for all Schumann baseball RPPCs combined.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-02-2017, 02:56 PM
Greenmonster's Avatar
Greenmonster Greenmonster is offline
Jim Schneider
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 394
Default

Hi Jim,

I have (or had) these Schumann cards, I think I traded the West Side with carriages card.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Scan0005.jpg (76.1 KB, 337 views)
File Type: jpg Scan0001a (4).jpg (76.9 KB, 337 views)
File Type: jpg Scan0006 B.jpg (78.6 KB, 339 views)
__________________
Ballpark, Team & Player Postcards
Boston, Boston & Boston
T206 - 190/524
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-02-2017, 03:01 PM
T206Jim's Avatar
T206Jim T206Jim is offline
J1m Ch@pman
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 608
Default

Fantastic Jim! Are yours stamped by Schumann on back and/or postmarked?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-02-2017, 03:26 PM
Greenmonster's Avatar
Greenmonster Greenmonster is offline
Jim Schneider
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 394
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T206Jim View Post
Fantastic Jim! Are yours stamped by Schumann on back and/or postmarked?
Schumann Backs
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Sch 001.jpg (78.4 KB, 332 views)
File Type: jpg Sch 002.jpg (85.0 KB, 331 views)
__________________
Ballpark, Team & Player Postcards
Boston, Boston & Boston
T206 - 190/524

Last edited by Greenmonster; 12-02-2017 at 03:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-02-2017, 05:15 PM
Greenmonster's Avatar
Greenmonster Greenmonster is offline
Jim Schneider
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 394
Default

I didn't realize that this is also a Schumann, I've had two of these with different titles.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 234 001.jpg (76.7 KB, 327 views)
File Type: jpg Scan078002.jpg (83.9 KB, 327 views)
__________________
Ballpark, Team & Player Postcards
Boston, Boston & Boston
T206 - 190/524
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-02-2017, 07:34 PM
WillowGrove's Avatar
WillowGrove WillowGrove is offline
Peter F
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 957
Default

Whoa. GreenMonster that is great.

Jim C you having fun yet?


Great thread!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-03-2017, 06:24 AM
T206Jim's Avatar
T206Jim T206Jim is offline
J1m Ch@pman
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 608
Default

Having a blast, Jim’s Collection of Schumanns is fantastic!

Last edited by T206Jim; 12-03-2017 at 06:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-03-2017, 09:27 AM
slidekellyslide's Avatar
slidekellyslide slidekellyslide is offline
Dan Bretta
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 5,766
Default

I have owned many Schumann postcards before, although none were baseball related. He was quite prolific in Chicago. There have been lots of famed RPPC photographers and he's on that list along with Wilkerson, Sanborn, SD Butcher, etc.
__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-10-2017, 05:18 PM
bmarlowe1's Avatar
bmarlowe1 bmarlowe1 is offline
Mark
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,364
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenmonster View Post
I didn't realize that this is also a Schumann, I've had two of these with different titles.
Jim Schneider's (post 16) postcard was discussed here:
http://sabr.box.com/shared/static/vv...4ctbbzk34g.pdf

That copy of the postcard had been altered and it was falsely claimed to depict a World Series game.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-10-2017, 08:14 PM
T206Jim's Avatar
T206Jim T206Jim is offline
J1m Ch@pman
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 608
Default

Very interesting Mark! Had you ever seen the original unaltered version of the postcard? You should do an update article showing the true version and the other West Side Grounds postcards with the Schumann attribution.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-11-2017, 12:01 AM
bmarlowe1's Avatar
bmarlowe1 bmarlowe1 is offline
Mark
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,364
Default

Jim - no I had not! I will do an update.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-21-2018, 07:37 PM
T206Jim's Avatar
T206Jim T206Jim is offline
J1m Ch@pman
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 608
Default

Here is another Schumann Chicago baseball RPPC from 1908. This one of a local team in Chicago Heights.

Schumann-Chicago-Heights-web.jpg

Schumann-Chicago-Heights-back-web.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-24-2018, 04:34 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is online now
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 27,321
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenmonster View Post
I didn't realize that this is also a Schumann, I've had two of these with different titles.
Great RPPCs!! I love double and triple folds!!
__________________
Leon Luckey

Last edited by Leon; 01-24-2018 at 04:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-24-2018, 09:47 PM
Greenmonster's Avatar
Greenmonster Greenmonster is offline
Jim Schneider
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 394
Default

Here's a couple more double fold ballpark postcards. The Portland Cement and League Park cards don't show up very often. These are not Shumann cards.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg RF 001.jpg (77.8 KB, 196 views)
File Type: jpg 001.jpg (80.9 KB, 195 views)
File Type: jpg polo 0101.jpg (80.6 KB, 197 views)
File Type: jpg fbrbs 0101.jpg (81.6 KB, 197 views)
File Type: jpg league 002.jpg (76.3 KB, 197 views)
__________________
Ballpark, Team & Player Postcards
Boston, Boston & Boston
T206 - 190/524

Last edited by Greenmonster; 01-24-2018 at 09:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-20-2019, 08:28 AM
T206Jim's Avatar
T206Jim T206Jim is offline
J1m Ch@pman
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 608
Default

Below are the four RPPCs I am aware of for the 1908 A.J. Schumann Chicago West Side Grounds ballpark "set". Is anyone else aware of any other Schumann RPPCs of the West Side Grounds?

2-panel-WS-720-dpi-web.jpg

Ticket office front.jpg

Carriage front.jpg

outfield view front.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-10-2019, 07:44 PM
T206Jim's Avatar
T206Jim T206Jim is offline
J1m Ch@pman
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 608
Default

Here is a fifth example. These five constitute all images I am aware of. Anyone aware of other images that are unknown to me?

Empty stands front.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-11-2019, 07:37 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,462
Default

Lake Front Park.... Chicago 1883






TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Any experts on the West Side Park/Grounds in Chicago? T206Jim Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 10 12-26-2016 02:09 PM
Is this West Side Grounds? Archive Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 1 06-01-2007 10:17 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:34 PM.


ebay GSB