NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for BSelling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-10-2019, 09:35 PM
Rhotchkiss's Avatar
Rhotchkiss Rhotchkiss is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,581
Default PWCC Auction Ending Tonight - Interesting Results

Seems to me that prices so far are very low. Currently, I am not bidding with them. But I have been watching the auction, and each of these lots finished way below recent sales: E90-1 Cobb PSA 5; T206 Matty dark cap PSA 6; T206 Young with glove SGC 6; E98 Cobb PSA 9, which ended at $20,900. This last one is particularly noteworthy bc, according to VCP, this is at least $5000 less than any E98 Cobb PSA 9 has sold for since at least 2013; it’s $10k less than the same exact card “sold” for a month ago in a PWCC auction; and almost every sale since 2013 has been $30k+

Is this just a down auction or is all this “stuff” taking it’s toll on PWCC. Thoughts?

Last edited by Rhotchkiss; 09-10-2019 at 09:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-10-2019, 09:41 PM
pcoz's Avatar
pcoz pcoz is offline
Pete Costanzo
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 571
Default

Ryan, you could be on to something with PWCC, but I donít think the time of the year helps either. After the National, a bunch of big auction houses have had their auctions finish up recently, and thousands of lots have just wiped out many bank accounts. Every year this Aug-Sept period appears a bit soft to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-10-2019, 09:46 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,279
Default

Maybe people will stop consigning. It would be well deserved.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-10-2019, 10:14 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
Scott Russell
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,402
Default

Maybe counsel has advised them that shill bidding during an investigation is a bad look...
__________________
Check out http://www.birminghamauctioneers.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-10-2019, 10:58 PM
Ronnie73 Ronnie73 is online now
Ron Kornacki
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 639
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
Maybe counsel has advised them that shill bidding during an investigation is a bad look...
That's what I was thinking. There was no where near the same amount of last second bidding like there usually is.
__________________
Ron - Uncle Nacki

T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki
T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524
T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5253
COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28
NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Polar Bear 245/250
Sovereign 460 50/52
Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34
Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-11-2019, 07:32 AM
LincolnVT LincolnVT is offline
Ethan
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: VT
Posts: 429
Default Auction

I guess, I would agree with Ryan that the prices seemed low last night. I also think that Petes comment about the timing of the auction / people being tapped out has merit. As for the PSA 9 E98 Cobb, I think that card would have reached 35k plus in other auctions as they have been bringing nearly 40 in other major auctions recently. People consigning items should go where they can get the best price for their item. 1 + 1 still equals 2, right?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-11-2019, 07:39 AM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is online now
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 9,015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LincolnVT View Post
I guess, I would agree with Ryan that the prices seemed low last night. I also think that Petes comment about the timing of the auction / people being tapped out has merit. As for the PSA 9 E98 Cobb, I think that card would have reached 35k plus in other auctions as they have been bringing nearly 40 in other major auctions recently. People consigning items should go where they can get the best price for their item. 1 + 1 still equals 2, right?
perhaps your opinion on the cobb is biased?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-11-2019, 07:40 AM
BigBeerGut's Avatar
BigBeerGut BigBeerGut is offline
Michael Durrett
member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Henderson NV
Posts: 44
Default

Do not forget the FOOTBALL factor September is a bad month to sell Baseball.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-11-2019, 07:41 AM
iowadoc77 iowadoc77 is offline
Eric
Eric
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,416
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
perhaps your opinion on the cobb is biased?
My thoughts exactly. Always different when one has skin in the game
__________________
Seeking: Honus Wagner seeking T5 batting pose
Pinkerton T5 Ty Cobb either pose
Type 1 photos
I still love the hobby
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-11-2019, 07:47 AM
calvindog's Avatar
calvindog calvindog is offline
Jeffrey Lichtman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,126
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LincolnVT View Post
I guess, I would agree with Ryan that the prices seemed low last night. I also think that Petes comment about the timing of the auction / people being tapped out has merit. As for the PSA 9 E98 Cobb, I think that card would have reached 35k plus in other auctions as they have been bringing nearly 40 in other major auctions recently. People consigning items should go where they can get the best price for their item. 1 + 1 still equals 2, right?
I think the E98 Cobb didnít receive a higher bid is because most collectors are concerned that tomorrow another 100 pristine Cobbs could show up ó which brings all sorts of questions including relating to authenticity of these high grade E98s. And why spend 30K on a card like that when you can spend it on a rare Cobb which will stay rare? Iíve got an extensive Cobb collection and for these reasons Iíd never buy a high grade E98 Cobb.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-11-2019, 08:01 AM
LincolnVT LincolnVT is offline
Ethan
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: VT
Posts: 429
Default Cobb

I respect your opinion and your Cobb collection, but I'm pretty sure we won't be seeing another batch of high end E98 cards. And yes, I am a bit biased on the E98 Cobb. Also VERY happily to have one and I'm not alone. I think the next time that a 9 is offered in a non-PWCC auction it is close to 40. Beautiful cards IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-11-2019, 08:10 AM
calvindog's Avatar
calvindog calvindog is offline
Jeffrey Lichtman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,126
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LincolnVT View Post
I respect your opinion and your Cobb collection, but I'm pretty sure we won't be seeing another batch of high end E98 cards. And yes, I am a bit biased on the E98 Cobb. Also VERY happily to have one and I'm not alone. I think the next time that a 9 is offered in a non-PWCC auction it is close to 40. Beautiful cards IMO.
40????? Not even close to 30. The only way that card reaches 40 is if the starting bid is 40 - and just one person pulls the trigger.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-11-2019, 08:18 AM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is online now
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 9,015
Default

not to hijack this thread...or beat on anyone...but according to VCP e98 cobb psa9 is trending lower than in the past.

With the current scandal rocking the hobby the mentality that everything just keeps going up over time will be shown to be untrue...imho of course.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-11-2019, 08:25 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is online now
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 27,772
Default

Definitely not true.
Actually, except for conspiracy theorists there is no authenticity question on the Black Swamp cards. The rest of the stuff I agree with and have almost always gone for rarity over condition.
I have held off bidding on some cards due to the scandal. I can't imagine collecting high grade stuff after what has been shown. But many, if not most collectors, have stuck their head in the sand or don't care if they have high grade altered cards in their collections. Personally it would bug me.

There could be several factors as to why PWCC isn't getting the prices right now. We all know what they are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
I think the E98 Cobb didn’t receive a higher bid is because most collectors are concerned that tomorrow another 100 pristine Cobbs could show up — which brings all sorts of questions including relating to authenticity of these high grade E98s. And why spend 30K on a card like that when you can spend it on a rare Cobb which will stay rare? I’ve got an extensive Cobb collection and for these reasons I’d never buy a high grade E98 Cobb.
__________________
Leon Luckey

Last edited by Leon; 09-11-2019 at 08:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-11-2019, 08:27 AM
KMayUSA6060's Avatar
KMayUSA6060 KMayUSA6060 is offline
Kyle May
member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 1,378
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
not to hijack this thread...or beat on anyone...but according to VCP e98 cobb psa9 is trending lower than in the past.

With the current scandal rocking the hobby the mentality that everything just keeps going up over time will be shown to be untrue...imho of course.
I think the scandal affects the higher grade stuff more than anything else due to skepticism.
__________________
Faith. Family. Country. Baseball. Baseball Cards.

Current Project: Hall of Famers - 1 playing-days/involvement card (if possible) of each.
Progress: 194/323 (60.06%)

In-depth tracking here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Last edited by KMayUSA6060; 09-11-2019 at 09:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-11-2019, 08:51 AM
frankbmd's Avatar
frankbmd frankbmd is offline
Fr@nk Burke++
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Between the 1st tee and the 19th hole
Posts: 5,950
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060 View Post
I think the scandal effects the higher grade stuff more than anything else due to skepticism.
You say it effects,

I say it affects.

Letís call the whole thing off.
__________________
FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER BUT CLEARLY........

GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION


518/1000 Monster Number

Over*760* successful B/S/T transactions completed in 2012-19.
Over 550 sales with satisfied Board members served.
Thank you all.



Now nearly PQ.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-11-2019, 09:03 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,279
Default

Fred and Ginger on roller skates -- classic.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-11-2019, 09:15 AM
LincolnVT LincolnVT is offline
Ethan
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: VT
Posts: 429
Default

I need to agree with Leon on this one. The BSW cards have provenance...if one wants to purchase a high grade card, now more than ever provenance is important. My reason for picking one up while I was able. And yes, I think close to 40k in the next non-PWCC auctions for a PSA 9...I think the average sale for BSF 9s is in the 35k to 38k range based on past PSA 9 sales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Definitely not true.
Actually, except for conspiracy theorists there is no authenticity question on the Black Swamp cards. The rest of the stuff I agree with and have almost always gone for rarity over condition.
I have held off bidding on some cards due to the scandal. I can't imagine collecting high grade stuff after what has been shown. But many, if not most collectors, have stuck their head in the sand or don't care if they have high grade altered cards in their collections. Personally it would bug me.

There could be several factors as to why PWCC isn't getting the prices right now. We all know what they are.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-11-2019, 09:15 AM
KMayUSA6060's Avatar
KMayUSA6060 KMayUSA6060 is offline
Kyle May
member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 1,378
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbmd View Post
You say it effects,

I say it affects.

Let’s call the whole thing off.
Excuse my millennial brain. To hell with the English language and its complications. This is why we make things simpler by leaving out letters and using acronyms. So thx 4 correcting me. FWIW, I learned sumthing.
__________________
Faith. Family. Country. Baseball. Baseball Cards.

Current Project: Hall of Famers - 1 playing-days/involvement card (if possible) of each.
Progress: 194/323 (60.06%)

In-depth tracking here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Last edited by KMayUSA6060; 09-11-2019 at 12:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-11-2019, 09:19 AM
frankbmd's Avatar
frankbmd frankbmd is offline
Fr@nk Burke++
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Between the 1st tee and the 19th hole
Posts: 5,950
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbmd View Post
You say it effects,

I say it affects.

Letís call the whole thing off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060 View Post
Excuse my millennial brain. To hell with the English language and its complications. This is why we make thing simpler by leaving out letters and using acronyms. So thx 4 correcting me. FWIW, I learned sumthing.
My post had the intended effect.
__________________
FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER BUT CLEARLY........

GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION


518/1000 Monster Number

Over*760* successful B/S/T transactions completed in 2012-19.
Over 550 sales with satisfied Board members served.
Thank you all.



Now nearly PQ.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-11-2019, 09:35 AM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is online now
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 9,015
Default

I also do not question the authenticity of the BST cards...just the value based on plentifulness!

Rarity over grade anyday everyday in my book!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-11-2019, 09:38 AM
calvindog's Avatar
calvindog calvindog is offline
Jeffrey Lichtman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,126
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LincolnVT View Post
I need to agree with Leon on this one. The BSW cards have provenance...if one wants to purchase a high grade card, now more than ever provenance is important. My reason for picking one up while I was able. And yes, I think close to 40k in the next non-PWCC auctions for a PSA 9...I think the average sale for BSF 9s is in the 35k to 38k range based on past PSA 9 sales.
Ethan, with all respect, and I'm not trying to harsh your buzz, but the card went for under 21K because that's what it's worth. Maybe on a good day it's worth 25K? Had your SGC 9.5 been won in a bidding war I'd tend to have more empathy for your argument but you were the only one who bid on it -- for a reason. No one else wanted it at 36K -- for a reason. Unlike you, additionally, I have no personal financial bias for my argument, i.e. I wasn't the sole bidder on the card which makes up the bulk of my collection.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-11-2019, 10:06 AM
drcy's Avatar
drcy drcy is offline
David Ru.dd Cycl.eback
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,676
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
Maybe counsel has advised them that shill bidding during an investigation is a bad look...
Maybe the shillers are not consigning.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-11-2019, 10:35 AM
drcy's Avatar
drcy drcy is offline
David Ru.dd Cycl.eback
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,676
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
Ethan, with all respect, and I'm not trying to harsh your buzz, but the card went for under 21K because that's what it's worth.
That may be what people here are saying. In this hobby, cards often don't sell, or "sell", for what they are worth.

I haven't trusted, or at least take with a large grain of salt, hobby "final prices realized at auction" for a long, long time. Beyond artificially raised prices due to shilling and valuations based on these artificially high or false prices, we all know that VCP and other 'price realized' lists include "sales" where there was no sale. And, with the current scandal, the hobby is realizing that, even if there was a sale, they can't even be sure what was sold-- though they sometimes find out the next week on BO.

Fake cards, or fake grade cards as in the case of the current scandal, can affect the market values of the cards that are known and proven to be real. Fro Joy Ruths are perhaps the best example. We know which Fro Joy Ruths are genuine, but all the past confusion has been "institutionalized" into the book and market prices. When sellers have to give each every potential bidder a history lesson, two-page essay and links to further reading to explain that "this PSA 9 is considered genuine but those others we don't know about and some are probably false and, to be candid, there are serious and widespread questions in the hobby as to whether PSA can even identify if a card is altered or not," the market value for PSA 9s across the board will be affected.

Last edited by drcy; 09-11-2019 at 11:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-11-2019, 11:19 AM
LincolnVT LincolnVT is offline
Ethan
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: VT
Posts: 429
Default

Are you suggesting that the PSA 9 E98 that sold last night in PWCC might not be authentic? If so, I disagree. Back to Pete's point, there were two other major auctions taking place when I picked up my 9.5, so potential bidders could have been tapped out or committed to other cards. Either way, I'm happy with my card and would likely have paid more for it if I had to. If you look around, I think that you will find that the high grade Ty Cobb E98s have sold recently in the $37,500 range...you can disagree with me, but my opinion is that they will continue to be sought after by collectors in the right auctions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
I think the E98 Cobb didnít receive a higher bid is because most collectors are concerned that tomorrow another 100 pristine Cobbs could show up ó which brings all sorts of questions including relating to authenticity of these high grade E98s. And why spend 30K on a card like that when you can spend it on a rare Cobb which will stay rare? Iíve got an extensive Cobb collection and for these reasons Iíd never buy a high grade E98 Cobb.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-11-2019, 11:29 AM
Rhotchkiss's Avatar
Rhotchkiss Rhotchkiss is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,581
Default

Letís get back to the generally low prices of the pwcc auction and off the specific e98 Cobb.

Jeff, I just shot you an email on a totally unrelated (fun card stuff) matter.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-11-2019, 12:05 PM
calvindog's Avatar
calvindog calvindog is offline
Jeffrey Lichtman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,126
Default

David, fake sales prices are usually high ones, not low ones like the E98 last night.

And Ethan, no, I think the PSA 9 that sold last night is authentic. I just think high end E98s are not for everyone with money because of the huge populations in high grades. It's just not that special a card to everyone for that reason. The important thing is you love your card and that's all that should matter, no need to flog it here.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-11-2019, 12:09 PM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
Johnny MaZilli
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,712
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
Let’s get back to the generally low prices of the pwcc auction and off the specific e98 Cobb.

Jeff, I just shot you an email on a totally unrelated (fun card stuff) matter.
Exactly...... the tide is turning over there.... the so called market, developed by them, in the general/grand scheme of things is set up perfectly for a major pull back.......

Last edited by Johnny630; 09-11-2019 at 12:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-11-2019, 01:00 PM
RedsFan1941 RedsFan1941 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,050
Default

expect more black swamp cards to hit the market for the first time in the coming months and years. this isnít an opinion. it doesnít question the authenticity of any of the bsf cards. it just means they are many more of them than was disclosed at the time of the find. nothing wrong with that either.
__________________
R0nnie L3hman
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-11-2019, 01:28 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,279
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsFan1941 View Post
expect more black swamp cards to hit the market for the first time in the coming months and years. this isn’t an opinion. it doesn’t question the authenticity of any of the bsf cards. it just means they are many more of them than was disclosed at the time of the find. nothing wrong with that either.
I have heard the same thing, that the family, or perhaps it was only some family members, held a large portion back. I guess these finds can be a double edged sword. I recall there was a huge find of high number 52 Bowmans at one point that drove prices way down.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 09-11-2019 at 01:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 09-11-2019, 02:02 PM
LincolnVT LincolnVT is offline
Ethan
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: VT
Posts: 429
Default Bsf

My understanding is that all BSF cards have now been graded by SGC or PSA. There was another wave of them -- I believe from a family member that held their portion of the cards back. That said, some BSF cards (like others) will move back and forth from SGC and PSA holders. If you think about it, the high grade E98 cards, even post BSF are quite rare compared to many collectible issues out there.

It will be interesting to see how PWCC auctions fair in the coming months.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09-11-2019, 02:18 PM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is online now
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 9,015
Default

Frank oh frank!!
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 09-11-2019, 02:26 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,279
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LincolnVT View Post
My understanding is that all BSF cards have now been graded by SGC or PSA. There was another wave of them -- I believe from a family member that held their portion of the cards back. That said, some BSF cards (like others) will move back and forth from SGC and PSA holders. If you think about it, the high grade E98 cards, even post BSF are quite rare compared to many collectible issues out there.

It will be interesting to see how PWCC auctions fair in the coming months.
22 PSA 9s (Cobb) is quite rare??? Compared to what?
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 09-11-2019, 02:36 PM
calvindog's Avatar
calvindog calvindog is offline
Jeffrey Lichtman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,126
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
22 PSA 9s (Cobb) is quite rare??? Compared to what?
1979 Topps
1980 Topps
1981 Topps
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:21 PM
pokerplyr80's Avatar
pokerplyr80 pokerplyr80 is offline
je.sse @rnot
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: California
Posts: 3,372
Default

I thought 9k for the e90-1 Cobb psa 5 was about where I expected to end. I certainly wouldn't say way below market value. There is another that's been sitting at just under 11k on ebay.
__________________
Successful transactions with peter spaeth, don's cards, vwtdi, wolf441, 111gecko, Clydewally, Jim, SPMIDD, MattyC, jmb, botn, E107collector, begsu1013, and a few others.

Last edited by pokerplyr80; 09-11-2019 at 03:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:28 PM
LincolnVT LincolnVT is offline
Ethan
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: VT
Posts: 429
Default

Just saying the post BSF combined population report for all (color variations) E98 Cobbs is 139...pretty rare considered to the combined population of his T-206 cards, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
1979 Topps
1980 Topps
1981 Topps

Last edited by LincolnVT; 09-11-2019 at 03:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:52 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
Scott Russell
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,402
Default

yes, but the percentage of that 139 that is high grade is crazy compared to the percentage of T206. Coupled with the lower demand (and believe it or not the BSF cratered overall demand for the set) and it's just a tough spot economically for the top end cards. When a set has no graded examples over 6, and then suddenly the total population triples and nearly ALL the new cards are OVER 6 it's not great. I know a few guys who had completed, or were working on sets who got out of them after BSF because their PSA 4 average sets were now pointless.
__________________
Check out http://www.birminghamauctioneers.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible!
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 09-11-2019, 04:00 PM
Rhotchkiss's Avatar
Rhotchkiss Rhotchkiss is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,581
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 View Post
I thought 9k for the e90-1 Cobb psa 5 was about where I expected to end. I certainly wouldn't say way below market value. There is another that's been sitting at just under 11k on ebay.
The one on eBay is wicked diamond cut, regardless of grade. And the only PSA 5 sale since 2018 was a pretty one in memory lane for just under $10.9k. Perhaps $8900 is not way below market, but there is no way either the consignor or pwcc is happy with that result.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 09-11-2019, 04:07 PM
drcy's Avatar
drcy drcy is offline
David Ru.dd Cycl.eback
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,676
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
David, fake sales prices are usually high ones, not low ones like the E98 last night.
That's exactly what I said (or implied).

The strikingly low auction price(s) may be because it's a real, honest sale without the common hobby "bells and whistles" (euphemism).

Last edited by drcy; 09-11-2019 at 04:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 09-11-2019, 04:17 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is online now
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 27,772
Default

The set had many examples graded above a 6 before the find. Not a lot and they were rare. But I know of at least one set that probably averaged 7 or so...before the find.

However, depending on how things go the BSF cards might gain some steam because of their provenance and all of the fraudulently altered cards in high grade holders without provenance except back to Moser types. So maybe really high grade unaltered cards, in holders or not, will be more valuable in the future. I I am the only doubting Thomas concerning high grade vintage in numerical holders. Eventually I will get a BSF card because I want one. The time hasn't been right yet and I doubt I get a very expensive one either. I would like it nicely centered though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
yes, but the percentage of that 139

that is high grade is crazy compared to the percentage of T206. Coupled with the lower demand (and believe it or not the BSF cratered overall demand for the set) and it's just a tough spot economically for the top end cards. When a set has no graded examples over 6, and then suddenly the total population triples and nearly ALL the new cards are OVER 6 it's not great. I know a few guys who had completed, or were working on sets who got out of them after BSF because their PSA 4 average sets were now pointless.
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 09-11-2019, 04:23 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
Scott Russell
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,402
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
The set had many examples graded above a 6 before the find. Not a lot and they were rare. But I know of at least one set that probably averaged 7 or so...before the find.

However, depending on how things go the BSF cards might gain some steam because of their provenance and all of the fraudulently altered cards in high grade holders without provenance except back to Moser types. So maybe really high grade unaltered cards, in holders or not, will be more valuable in the future. I I am the only doubting Thomas concerning high grade vintage in numerical holders. Eventually I will get a BSF card because I want one. The time hasn't been right yet and I doubt I get a very expensive one either. I would like it nicely centered though.
Not sure where I heard that the highest grade pre was a "6" but shame on me for passing it along unresearched.
__________________
Check out http://www.birminghamauctioneers.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible!
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 09-11-2019, 04:32 PM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
T3d $h3rm@n
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,042
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LincolnVT View Post
I need to agree with Leon on this one. The BSW cards have provenance...if one wants to purchase a high grade card, now more than ever provenance is important. My reason for picking one up while I was able. And yes, I think close to 40k in the next non-PWCC auctions for a PSA 9...I think the average sale for BSF 9s is in the 35k to 38k range based on past PSA 9 sales.
Sure, riddle me this. Why were they so miscut, when not a single example had ever surfaced before nor after bearing this trait?
__________________
SIGNED 1952 Topps
381/407


"Trolling Ebay right now" ©
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 09-11-2019, 05:29 PM
barrysloate barrysloate is offline
Barry Sloate
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 8,291
Default

I predicted in another thread that this Cobb would sell for quite a bit less than its last auction appearance, so I am not surprised at all. There are simply too many BSF cards, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the appearance is the same ones keep being offered for sale again and again. When was the last time anyone has seen a major auction without multiple BSF cards? There seems to be a never ending supply, and the market is burned out.

Add to that the possibility that the family held back a lot more E98's, and you can see why prices are going down. There is no sense of these being rare. Instead, they are seen by many as The Black Swamp Glut.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 09-11-2019, 05:29 PM
trambo's Avatar
trambo trambo is offline
Troy Rambo
member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Ohio
Posts: 123
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
22 PSA 9s (Cobb) is quite rare??? Compared to what?
1988 Donruss Gregg Jefferies
1990 Sportflics (any)
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 09-11-2019, 06:07 PM
drcy's Avatar
drcy drcy is offline
David Ru.dd Cycl.eback
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,676
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trambo View Post
1988 Donruss Gregg Jefferies
1990 Sportflics (any)

Sportflix??? No!!!!!!!!! I was told mine was the only one!
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 09-11-2019, 06:46 PM
LincolnVT LincolnVT is offline
Ethan
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: VT
Posts: 429
Default Bsf

So, let me try offer some perspective. There are 139 (combined pop SGC and PSA) E98 Cobb cards and 136 (combined pop SGC and PSA) 1914 Cracker Jack cards...someone else in this thread has said that maybe 22 or so of the E98 Cobbs were mint+...if the same find applied to another issue like the "rare" 1914 CJ Cobb is it safe to say that people wouldn't be clamoring to get a high graded example? Or is it that people just don't like the pose of the E98. Lol.

To each their own. I love having a piece of what I see as a once in a lifetime find. The cards are stunning to hold in hand. I think I've said my piece on this topic...

Cheers!
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 09-11-2019, 07:06 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,279
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
Sure, riddle me this. Why were they so miscut, when not a single example had ever surfaced before nor after bearing this trait?
Theory?
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 09-11-2019, 07:12 PM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
T3d $h3rm@n
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,042
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Theory?
Cast offs? No clue but it always seemed strange most these examples are unique in that way

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
__________________
SIGNED 1952 Topps
381/407


"Trolling Ebay right now" ©
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 09-11-2019, 07:15 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,279
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
Cast offs? No clue but it always seemed strange most these examples are unique in that way

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
A run that was rejected perhaps, and now people are paying 50K for one.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 09-11-2019, 07:18 PM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
T3d $h3rm@n
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,042
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
A run that was rejected perhaps, and now people are paying 50K for one.
Aint that a kick in the rear! I always felt the real nice centered minor HOFers in psa 9 would eventually see a spike in price.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
__________________
SIGNED 1952 Topps
381/407


"Trolling Ebay right now" ©
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
E95 Plank--PWCC auction Brian Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 65 07-18-2017 07:10 PM
T206 - PWCC Auction Last Night Rhotchkiss Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 51 03-16-2017 09:53 AM
Recent PWCC Auction Snapolit1 Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 09-08-2016 01:50 PM
PWCC Auction Yet Again Yoda Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 101 07-20-2016 12:02 PM
PWCC Auction Yoda Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 98 02-13-2016 06:12 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:16 AM.


ebay GSB