T206 - Original ATC Ledger?

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Posted By: Trae R.

(Thanks Jon Canfield!)

Jon sent me this in an email.
He said thinks it originally came from Terry Knouse.
I'd like to know what, if any, information you all hold on this particular letter?
This is all new news to me that such an item even exists.



Thanks!

Edited to adjust image size...

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Posted By: steve f

That's huge. It looks genuine to me. 2 cards per box of cigs for Philly region!

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Posted By: peter ullman

I saw some of those at tik and tik's table at a national probably in 95'. He had carolina brights...among others and told me they were from the ATC ledger. He said he had had some of the rarer backed ones but they'd sold. They were relatively inexpensive at the time 2-300 each. There was also a letter at that national at one of the bigger auction houses which was a letter from uzit cigs to ATC I believe with 4 sample uzit cards attached to the letter. I think it was 2K and I thought that was outlandish!

pete ullman

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Posted By: David Hornish

This thread just jogged my memory-I was contacted a few years ago via e-mail by someone with ATT shipping records for T206 cards (I think it was T206, it was certainly one of the big T sets). I'm searching for printouts of the e-mails or on my AOL archive (which is minimal unfortunately). He had some specific details that were interesting.

While looking for that e-mail though I came across a May 2003 e-mail from Bob Forbes, co-author of American Tobacco Cards. There was a lot of content, some unrelated to T206 but the T206 stuff is worth sharing:

"Fcctory Numbers-were listed on cards from around 1905 (+/- a year or two) to sometime into the early 1930's. I believe this was in response to some kind of Federal Govt mandate....

RE Overprints-based on govt reg theory-the cards were produced at a central location (ATC Trust Premium dept)-backs were printed according to the amount needed at each factory. Due to shifts in production of a brand (many were produced at more than one factory) or oversupply of particular factory backs, some cards were overprinted to change factory numbers. I don't believe any of the factories were involved in printing their own backs-at best this would have been contracted out locally to a printing firm."

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Posted By: David Hornish

I know, pretty weak responding to my own message! A quick Google search found this when I entered the phrase "American Tobacco Company Trust Premium Depratment":

http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FJEH%2FJEH66_01%2FS00220507060 00027a.pdf&code=9c80cfcc837be8279ea5704c1f57a0b3

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Posted By: David Hornish

Dang, that's a PDF and the url won't work. The article title is: The Whig Fable of American Tobacco 1985-1913 by Leslie Hannah. Sorry for the confusion.

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Posted By: J Levine

I first saw Terry with this ledger (really only a partial ledger at the time) at a Hollywood Park Show. He had just gotten it and was asking around. If memory serves, he had some really unique items including some Carolina Brights, Broadleaf, Tolstoi, and a few others. Many of the cards had notations either on them or around them. Some had the initial cross-hatch marks of printer proofs as well. Most had notes on the sides about the player and the pose, team, etc. I always wondered what happened to the ledger. I guess it was split up and bought. I always regretted I was a just a poor student teacher at the time because the pages were being offered for somewhere around $200-$250 for commons and higher for stars (and yes, I distincly remember a Collins and Lajoie, probably others).

Hope this helps...contact Terry Knouse, he may know more than anyone about this ledger.

Joshua

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

That is a wonderful item.

ANYONE else on here have such stuff???