2012 Standard Catalog of Vintage Baseball Cards

[Runscott]

My apologies if the following has been addressed in other threads, but my searches didn't turn up anything.

I'm looking for a discussion or list of pricing issues;e.g-E90-1 Cobb, Joss throwing, T206 - 1st 150 commons. Also looking for discussions or list of any questions about the T205 or T206 prices or variations. If no one thinks there are any errors, or that any of the prices are out of line, that's fine - I just want to read any discussions on the topic.

Thanks, and thanks to Mr. Lemke for creating a separate book - I've been in a collecting hiatus for the last seven years, so just received mine and thoroughly enjoying it.

[Runscott]

Did I make a faux pas?

[ullmandds]

R U referring to the "2012" standard catalog?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

R U referring to the "2012" standard catalog?

Yes, the one that came out recently. Sorry about that - maybe that's why my question has been ignored.

[Runscott]

bump. c'mon guys - a little help here. I know there's got to be some thoughts on this. If it's a taboo subject, please PM.

Seriously, 206 people have read this thread and not one knows of any past discussions on the questions I asked?

[ullmandds]

I think most here would agree that the standard is a valuable reference for checklists and to help identify issues one is not familiar with...BUT...is not terribly useful for valuations of cards...as prices fluctuate on an almost daily basis. Past auctions and sales is the only really effective way to value a card at a given time.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I think most here would agree that the standard is a valuable reference for checklists and to help identify issues one is not familiar with...BUT...is not terribly useful for valuations of cards...as prices fluctuate on an almost daily basis. Past auctions and sales is the only really effective way to value a card at a given time.

Yes, that's always been true; however, it didn't stop us from having discussions.

[pgellis]

Maybe there's no discussion because not a lot of people have purchased the book yet. I collect only T206 so I don't really have a reason to purchase this book. Also, along with the "disappointment" in this edition, I believe a lot of people probably passed on purchasing this issue.

If you would like to discuss the pricing of T206 on this forum, why don't you post what you would like to discuss. I'm sure a lot of people would weigh in on it if it was right in front of them.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by pgellis

Maybe there's no discussion because not a lot of people have purchased the book yet. I collect only T206 so I don't really have a reason to purchase this book. Also, along with the "disappointment" in this edition, I believe a lot of people probably passed on purchasing this issue.

If you would like to discuss the pricing of T206 on this forum, why don't you post what you would like to discuss. I'm sure a lot of people would weigh in on it if it was right in front of them.

I did post - it was regarding the first 150 commons in the set. My guess is that a premium was being added for the ones with the '150' back. I also asked about two specific E90-1 cards. I know the market values of these two particular examples, but I thought it was strange that the book value was so out of line, and was requesting thoughts. It might be that some of you guys have time to study every card issue and memorize prices, but I'm not that far along yet - was hoping I could get some guidance as to which prices were accurate, and which ones to just cross out.

But you're right - I'll just start separate threads regarding the specific cards (or sets) I'm interested in and begin taking notes in my catalog. As mentioned previously, I thought there might be stuff posted already, and I simply did not want to re-hash the same old stuff and bore the hell out of everyone.

As is, that's what I've done anyway. Sorry about that.

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I did post - it was regarding the first 150 commons in the set. My guess is that a premium was being added for the ones with the '150' back. I also asked about two specific E90-1 cards. I know the market values of these two particular examples, but I thought it was strange that the book value was so out of line, and was requesting thoughts. It might be that some of you guys have time to study every card issue and memorize prices, but I'm not that far along yet - was hoping I could get some guidance as to which prices were accurate, and which ones to just cross out.

But you're right - I'll just start separate threads regarding the specific cards (or sets) I'm interested in and begin taking notes in my catalog. As mentioned previously, I thought there might be stuff posted already, and I simply did not want to re-hash the same old stuff and bore the hell out of everyone.

As is, that's what I've done anyway. Sorry about that.

My response to you was that many people (myself included) may not have the book yet, so unless you post what the prices are in your comments, how can we discuss whether the prices are out of line or not?

You would need to post what the prices in the book are for a bigger discussion to take place.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by pgellis

My response to you was that many people (myself included) may not have the book yet, so unless you post what the prices are in your comments, how can we discuss whether the prices are out of line or not?

You would need to post what the prices in the book are for a bigger discussion to take place.

Doh! Okay, I get it. Wow - how things have changed! Used to be everyone was dying to get this book. I have to tell you, I love mine, regardless of the inaccuracies - it's still very cool.

I'm farting off at the coffee shop at the moment, but I'll post some prices when I get back home - thanks for your response.

What do folks use in lieu of this catalog? Is everything online now?

[glchen]

I think one of the reasons that few people have picked up the latest catalog is that it received less than rave reviews including from Mr. Lemke. The thread on that is here: Link

I think many folks including myself are just sticking to older versions of the Standard Catalog.

[pgellis]

I know a lot of people use VCP. I don't use anything anymore. I only collect T206 and have been doing so for almost 7 years now, so I have a very good idea of pricing by watching eBay, auctions, B/S/T, etc. diligently for the past 6.5 years.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by pgellis

I know a lot of people use VCP. I don't use anything anymore. I only collect T206 and have been doing so for almost 7 years now, so I have a very good idea of pricing by watching eBay, auctions, B/S/T, etc. diligently for the past 6.5 years.

I was that way 6 years ago, but the market has changed a lot. The strangest thing I've noticed with T206's since I've been gone, is the Cobb Bat Off prices - just amazing. You are right, though - T206s are easy enough to keep on top of.

The T205s are a different story for me, as I never really collected them much anyway. I recently picked up an SGC 30 Wallace cap off, 1 line that I really have no idea what it is worth. I don't plan on selling it, but I'm curious what it's worth. Same for a few other variations such as the 2nd toughest Hoblitzell. I just don't see these cards on ebay, and the few that are there (such as the Matty 1-win) are priced to high to sell, so who knows what the market value is?

[pgellis]

I'd be interested in seeing the T206 pricing questions that you have from your initial post. If you feel like taking the time to post them here........I'd like to see it. Maybe that will lead to further discussion from other T206 collectors.

[Leon]

Hey Scott
First of all I know I owe you a phone call but have been out and still getting everything back in order from a few days away. You seem a bit overzealous about the quickness of responses . I see that after 5 hours you were sort of antsy. Heck, I can show you many threads that I started and thought were good and never got a single response. We have over 3100 registered members but sometimes no one feels like saying anything. It's just the way it is.
Now back to your topic, I got the 2012 Vintage SCD and didn't think it was that bad after a cursory look. Yes, we did have a fairly long thread about it before too. I don't really use it for pricing, I use it for more of a card and series checklist. The prices are a loose guide and anyone that does this everyday, and pays attention, will know more accurate, real time, pricing than any printed catalog, imo. take care, hope all is well and talk to you a bit later.....

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hey Scott
First of all I know I owe you a phone call but have been out and still getting everything back in order from a few days away. You seem a bit overzealous about the quickness of responses . I see that after 5 hours you were sort of antsy. Heck, I can show you many threads that I started and thought were good and never got a single response. We have over 3100 registered members but sometimes no one feels like saying anything. It's just the way it is.
Now back to your topic, I got the 2012 Vintage SCD and didn't think it was that bad after a cursory look. Yes, we did have a fairly long thread about it before too. I don't really use it for pricing, I use it for more of a card and series checklist. The prices are a loose guide and anyone that does this everyday, and pays attention, will know more accurate, real time, pricing than any printed catalog, imo. take care, hope all is well and talk to you a bit later.....

Okay, 3100 people had no interest in providing a response. Believe me, I got that As I stated, I realize that the topic obviously was boring to most.

I still don't have answers to my more specific card questions, but I'll go back to asking buddies via PM as I've been doing off and on for the last 6-7 years.

[fkw]

I have the 2010 edition .... and memorized now

I may buy the 2013 edition next year.

Sometimes good questions will go unanswered, many times Ive posted questions and they go well over 100+ views before I get a reply, but I expect it, if I have a question that I dont know the answer to after 30+ years of PreWar, I dont expect many to know the answer.. or I should already know it too

as far as the T206 150 series having a premium in guides, maybe a slight premium but nothing more. The whole damn T206 set is extremely common with 98% of the poses existing with a couple thousand examples known (population).

But then again the 150 series is full of portrait cards, and many including myself think the portrait cards are better looking thus more popular, and also the 150 series is 1-2 years older than the 350-460 series, so being older lol should add some premium maybe 1% for being older and 4-9% for being a portrait card...

E90-1 is a different animal, kids bought candy cards, and kids ALWAYS destroy cards, making them far more difficult to find now in nice shape, and overall, compared to the T206 (tobacco) cards of the same 3 year span.
Both sets have scarcity levels, but the average collector looking at E90-1 (not a E90-1 expert) will have to use a price guide to see the different scarcity tiers, because the backs are all the same making the cards look all the same (unlike the T206 set where there are different brands, series, fac#, overprints, etc. on back)

I still use the guides for scarcity tiers when I see E90-1 cards that Im unsure of how scarce they are, same with some T207 cards too.
With me, T206 is memorized to a point. ... and way overrated, but thats for another thread lol

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by fkw

..........the average collector ............... will have to use a price guide to see the different scarcity tiers, .................

I have the 2011 SCD. After about a 10 year hiatus from card collecting, I jumped back in 2 years ago and started collecting pre-war. It took me a while to realize that there are very few hard and fast rules and mostly card prices are set by the current market.

I bought the 2011 SCD hoping it would be a good price guide, but I've quickly evolved to using it for relative scarcity as Frank mentioned, a checklist, as some others have mentioned, and to gain some education on some sets I'm not familiar with. Still love the book and I refer to it fairly regularly. I personally do use it as a price guide - but mostly to set limits/starting points for myself.

If I target a particular card for example, I start with the limit I have set for myself based on the 2011 SCD. When I repeatedly come up short trying to buy a card for that price, It's pretty easy to determine the current real value of the card (the level of card I chase anyway). Then I get to decide if I want to up my personal limit. By the same token, If I set my sights on a card, start watching for it, and it rarely comes up for sale, then I know when it does come up, I may need to stretch my limit a little if I really want it.

t207 is a good example - I started watching that set and collecting a certain subset within the set maybe 5 or 6 months ago. 2011 SCD listed maybe 60 cards from my subset priced at $70 in vg. I set myself a limit and bought about half of them pretty quickly. The other half? I bet I've seen half of those come up, but they always fly past my limit. The remaining quarter? I may not have seen them at all in the 5 or 6 months I've been watching. The half I have already purchased? I probably could have bought them all again 2 or 3 times at the price I paid. Not sure what the moral is there, other than.......You just have to watch and develop your own price guide using SCD,VCP, ebay history, net54 BST, etc as guides.

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I'm looking for a discussion or list of pricing issues;e.g-E90-1 Cobb, Joss throwing, T206 - 1st 150 commons.

I've only been collecting t206 for two years, but this is the first I've heard that 150 series backs carry any premium. I sorta doubt the premiumn is noticeable.

As I said in my post above, I set myself a limit based on a combination of 2011 SCD, Beckett, and t206.org prices, (no premium for 150 backs in any of those) and collected 516 different t206's in similar grade (low good on average). Of those, 135 are series 150 backs.

I'd say that's pretty good proof that there is no "real" premium in that grade.

[ALR-bishop]

If SCD does not find a way to replace Bob L, it could be a long wait for that 2013 edition

[nebboy]

I to use the 2011 SCD for things seldom seen cards and for checklists.

E-Bay, and T206.org/T205.org and here for an general ideas on prices.
But of late everytime I try to use T206/5.org I get redirected to a soft porn celeb site that contains MANY viruses ect. Does this happen to anyone else?

As for things like the T205 SGC Wallace cap off, 1 line and harder to find info I always have a list together and when I really need it I just buy a 1 day subsribtion to VCP.

[dog*dirt]

I agree on using SCD for the checklist but as far as pricing goes it seems easier to just research past sales via the internet.

I also was also blocked trying to get to the T205-206 website, just a warning to those who may use that site.

Andrew

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by nebboy

I to use the 2011 SCD for things seldom seen cards and for checklists.

E-Bay, and T206.org/T205.org and here for an general ideas on prices.
But of late everytime I try to use T206/5.org I get redirected to a soft porn celeb site that contains MANY viruses ect. Does this happen to anyone else?

As for things like the T205 SGC Wallace cap off, 1 line and harder to find info I always have a list together and when I really need it I just buy a 1 day subsribtion to VCP.

I appreciate the responses and suggestions. I guess what I had forgotten was that in the past I built a wealth of knowledge about various issues simply by keeping an eye on the market - auctions, ebay, etc. This was gradual and took years. It's not possible to just jump back in and know the market immediately.

However, despite the negatives I've read here, it sounds like a VCP subscription will still help me get a jumpstart. Thanks.

[bunst]

I too had an issue with T206.org. Got a nasty Trojan virus that I could not get rid of myself. Took a professional 2 days to remove it and my wallet took a hit. Be careful even if you have the best antivirus software, which I did.

[T206.org]

What in the heck? I certainly haven't setup any trojan/virus crap on either of the websites, and none of what is explained happens when I use the sites, nor do I see anything malicious in the source code.

Will someone please send me more specific information about their experience with these issues? What site(s) does it redirect you to? Does it happen instantly? Do you get any kind of warning(s) first? May I please see screenshots of anything you see that looks out of place?

trae@t206.org is my email.

This is totally weird...

Thank you

[t206hound]

Trae, I certainly haven't had any issues with t206.org at any time. I've hit it from multiple machines and my iPhone in the last week and never have experienced what has been reported here.

[T206.org]

Thanks, Erick.

I just found the problem though. Apparently my host was hacked at some point. It appears to be a Windows-only issue (big surprise), as it definitely doesn't affect my Mac (we're an all Apple household). I've removed the malicious code and I'm so super-sorry to everyone that experienced any trouble with this!

I'm going through the other sites I have on the server now (quite a few... this stinks!).