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  #1  
Old 06-19-2013, 11:14 AM
eagles33 eagles33 is offline
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Default Cassius clay card from Argentina

Does anyone know anything about this card? This is the first time I've seen it.



Last edited by eagles33; 06-20-2013 at 07:35 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-19-2013, 01:59 PM
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It's authentic and from 1979.
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Old 06-20-2013, 07:28 PM
eagles33 eagles33 is offline
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The seller wasn't able to offer any information. I figured it was a Crack card which is the Argentinian equivalent to panini but the seller didn't think so. The card is interesting since its numbered so its from a set and not just a random oddball item. It's in poor condition but I always like to see new Ali cards. I know there are some pretty knowledgeable Ali collectors out there and was hoping someone would have more info
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:57 PM
eagles33 eagles33 is offline
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Well someone paid 155 bucks for it. I'd be interested if anyone was able to figure out a year and manufacturer
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:12 PM
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It's from 1979.
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Old 06-25-2013, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger View Post
It's from 1979.
Yes, yes. But what year is it from?
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:25 AM
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I know the seller put 1979 in the title but he had no idea who the manufacturer was. I don't get how he would know the year and not the set. I figured someone might have came across the set before
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:54 AM
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In Argentina, the manufacturer is of little concern to the collectors. While it's certainly a popular hobby with strong roots dating back to the 19th century, it hasn't become the major business that it has here in the States. There's no third party grading and very little branding on the vintage products. I've yet to see a card from a set that had the manufacturer printed on the reverse (unless an exception is slipping my mind). Most albums don't have manufacturer branding on them either.

To the best of my knowledge, there was a bit of expansion in the hobby in the 1970s and there were frequently multiple issues each year that would cover futbol or sports. This particular card is from a multi-subject set issued in 1979. I know the set name but not the manufacturer and have seen albums and other cards from the set.

If that all comes across as cagey, that's because I'm being cagey.
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:12 PM
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Could you share the name of the set? Any other athletes in the set? I'm just discovering cards from South America. It's a pretty cool market and nice alternative to the more common stuff that comes out out of Europe.
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Old 06-25-2013, 06:57 PM
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The issue features several other boxers that I know of:

#330 Porta
#336 Malvarez
#334 Cuevas
#339 Galindez

Since Ali is #332 I would assume there are others.

There is some confusion whether it is 1979 or 1981; I've seen both dates reported by the same Argentinean seller. I am trying to clarify.

I cover Argentinean and South American cards [as extensively as possible] in my book. There are also some others on display on my web site.
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Old 06-30-2013, 03:15 PM
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Default 1979 Argentine Clay Card...

My computer's been down and out of circulation for some time and until righted today (need to catch up on prior things with certain members, too, with apologies.) This said...

Leland's Auctions had this issue up for bids back in 2007 and listed its year and set name as: "1979 Argentina FOTO EN CARTON #332." That sounds to me like it may be more of a descriptive generic "set" name for the card rather than what might be the actual set's name it came from ("Box Picture" being the generic translation for "Foto En Carton"? Anyone ...?) In my own past research of certain Leland's Clay/Ali card descriptions, the year stated for some of them also does well to be additionally verified by outside others first. Leland's is not unlike some of the grading companies out there: If they don't fully know the exact details or background history of certain foreign Ali cards, often times they simply go by and include whatever the particular owner of a card happens to state to them what the issue year was as well as the original country that produced it. I've seen a lot of mistaken descriptions on various Ali issues that were slapped in slabs.

With a working computer again, I look forward to any discussions taking place regarding Clay/Ali cards as the work continues on laying out card images in my Ali Global Card Review project and its upcoming First Edition book publication, shooting for end of this year or early next's first quarter.
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Old 06-30-2013, 05:38 PM
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Daniel, the Lelands listing [Lot 33, June 2007] actually states in pertinent part:

"Exceptionally rare Muhammad Ali card. This is a 1.5 x 2" blank-back cardboard "Foto en Carton" card from Argentina. It is card #332 from the album Hace Millones de Anos."

Argentinean cards [similar to those from Venezuela, Uruguay and other SoAm countries] were issued to be glued into albums. The album name "Hace Milliones de Anos" is the key to the puzzle. I was able to track down the album itself on SoAm Ebay. It is a publication that appears to contain 400+ cards from a variety of subjects including a El Deporte Al Dia [Today's Sports] section with mixed athletes. It appears to have been a multi-year issue running from at least 1979-1983, so the Clay card could be a 1979 and a 1981 issue.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 06-30-2013 at 05:39 PM.
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  #13  
Old 06-30-2013, 06:25 PM
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Default Thanks Adam

Great tracking for background information my friend. Made me realize I went to an Ali's 1979 card images folder first to see what I had titled the card's image already in it, then shot off only what was entered for that image's tiff save without also checking the separate master database also running. Leland's info regarding the album name (if not who produced it) is discovered entered there but not with the image itself ... my oversight. Unfortunately, there are a number of early Clay/Ali issues from Mexico and it would seem SoAm as well where who was credited for having produced them is lacking.

Your info on SoAm card issues in general greatly helps expand everybody's knowledge, and we all thank you for it. In your tracking the card and its album, did you ever find out who actually was accredited for producing it?
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Old 07-01-2013, 07:59 AM
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I wish...
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