Al Simmons Bat Question

[mefer]

Greetings All--

I am a long time reader of the forums who just signed up for an account. In any event, I found an auction on eBay for a game used Al Simmons bat. Being a collector of vintage A's items (but not yet a game used collector) this item caught my eye. However, I will admit that I am a complete novice when it comes to back collecting and that scares me. Here is the auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1921-31-Al-Simmo...item563d08d6f1

Here is the bat where it previously sold:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/auction/lot.php?id=729

Now, what I have learned from what research that I can find is that a 40k bat is not a "pro model" bat and there are only a few scant H&B records of pros ordering such bats. I can't find any information that Simmons ever ordered a 40k bat nor could I find any pictures of him using such a bat (believe me, I tried).

Given the foregoing, I am beginning to seriously doubt this purchase would be worth. Even if graded and passed, and from what I can tell, it would appear that it would not receive anything higher than a grade of 4 or 5 (again, I am a novice at this and this is just my conclusion from what I have read).

I would kindly appreciate any insight and collective wisdom any of you more advanced collectors could shed on this.

Kind regards,

Matt

[jboosted92]

i can humbly say, I have probably researched more on 40k Kork Grip bats than close to anyone in the world....

here are my conclusions:

I have photo or documented proof on the following Players

1. Babe Ruth
2. Ty Cobb ...(likely creator back in 1913/14)
3. Honus Wagner
4. Travis Jackson
5. Joe Sewell

as well as numerous other pro-players. Mears (Particular Dave Grob) has done extensive research as well ( in addition to being the discover-er of the Cobb Data)

Now, There are 2 ways to look at 40-k.

1. Is there any likelihood he used this pro-model Bat. I say Yes
2. How does the market respond.

Me personally, i might do alot of photo or document research prior or after purchase to see if i can put this style bat in his hands. The length and the weight match up well.

Originally Posted by mefer

Greetings All--

I am a long time reader of the forums who just signed up for an account. In any event, I found an auction on eBay for a game used Al Simmons bat. Being a collector of vintage A's items (but not yet a game used collector) this item caught my eye. However, I will admit that I am a complete novice when it comes to back collecting and that scares me. Here is the auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1921-31-Al-Simmo...item563d08d6f1

Here is the bat where it previously sold:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/auction/lot.php?id=729

Now, what I have learned from what research that I can find is that a 40k bat is not a "pro model" bat and there are only a few scant H&B records of pros ordering such bats. I can't find any information that Simmons ever ordered a 40k bat nor could I find any pictures of him using such a bat (believe me, I tried).

Given the foregoing, I am beginning to seriously doubt this purchase would be worth. Even if graded and passed, and from what I can tell, it would appear that it would not receive anything higher than a grade of 4 or 5 (again, I am a novice at this and this is just my conclusion from what I have read).

I would kindly appreciate any insight and collective wisdom any of you more advanced collectors could shed on this.

Kind regards,

Matt

[mefer]

Thank you. That is very helpful. I think I have about exhausted what research I can do on the Internet, and from what I could review, I could find no picture or other evidence that affirmatively put such a bat in his hands. Because of that, and erring on the side of caution, I am probably going to pass.

If anyone else has further thoughts, please share. Thanks.

Matt

[HRBAKER]

Absent any definitive photo-match or ordering record proof, the game-used hobby is one big leap of faith and not usually in the buyer's favor. Is there any compelling reason to believe that this is a Simmons gamer? If so, what is it?

[mefer]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Absent any definitive photo-match or ordering record proof, the game-used hobby is one big leap of faith and not usually in the buyer's favor. Is there any compelling reason to believe that this is a Simmons gamer? If so, what is it?

That is exactly what I am struggling with. I cannot find the compelling reason. In particular:

1. No photo evidence I can find of Simmons using such a bat
2. From what research I could do, no records backing up Simmons ever ordered a 40k bat.

All that is out there is that the bat appears to be within specs of length and width (though I would feel more comfortable if it was 38") and that some professionals from the era did order 40k bats (however, not many did.)

I am not finding anything compelling which puts it squarely back into a leap of faith.

Matt

[jboosted92]

Originally Posted by mefer

That is exactly what I am struggling with. I cannot find the compelling reason. In particular:

1. No photo evidence I can find of Simmons using such a bat
2. From what research I could do, no records backing up Simmons ever ordered a 40k bat.

All that is out there is that the bat appears to be within specs of length and width (though I would feel more comfortable if it was 38") and that some professionals from the era did order 40k bats (however, not many did.)

I am not finding anything compelling which puts it squarely back into a leap of faith.

Matt

I would personally keep at the research.

I had bought a 1914-15 Cobb 40k, years ago. Before really anyone knew much about them. It had all the characteristics..

Length, Weight, Remains of Spiral Handle Tape, Cleat Marks, Pounded Bat...story of origin in Michigan....

Well, i then easily put in 400-800 hours worth of research work, work with others, and got lots of results. Now years later, MEARS has a consignor find one from the same era (even a few months prior to mine ) and it goes for 35k+

So with that said.....you be the judge~