Cheatriots At It Again....

[FenwayFaithful]

.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Ok, I'm trying to wrap my head around all this.

Here's my understanding and correct me if I'm wrong:

League Official #1 got caught trying to steal a ball and tried to cover it up by passing off different ball (a "K ball”). He gave the ball to Jim McNally who is a Patriots locker room attendant. McNally then gave the ball to another League Official (Greg Yvette) to be introduced into the game. Yvette noticed that the ball didn’t have the proper markings and notified another official. Did I get that right?

If so, that still doesn’t explain McNally’s part in this. Why didn’t McNally notice that it was a “K ball” to begin with? After all, he has several years’ experience. Also, as the first article mentions, it sounds like McNally wasn’t following procedure because “officials' locker room attendants don't typically have ballhandling responsibilities during NFL games."

[Runscott]

David, it sounds like it started with the removal of a 'K' ball. But the story still doesn't make sense, as the 'K Ball Coordinator' is not supposed to let these balls leave his sight - he introduces the ball into play, it is used for the kicking play, it is retrieved by another 'K Ball Coordinator', and it's then back in his hands until used again. They don't just get marked by the official and then tossed aside somewhere. It sounds to me like the NFL's 'K Ball' process isn't being followed, and that someone was too dumb to realize that the approved balls should have certain markings.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Scott,

Right. Fortunately Yvette caught it and he must have thought it pretty important/suspicious enought to notify Mike Kensil (NFL vice president of operations) who personally went into the officials' locker room at halftime to inspect all the balls.

It's still kind of hard to believe that an official who was supposed to be selling the balls for charity was instead selling them on the side. You would think that each ball would be tracked and accounted for. It's also strange that they haven't named that official (they named the other officials involved).

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Scott,

Right. Fortunately Yvette caught it and he must have thought it pretty important/suspicious enought to notify Mike Kensil (NFL vice president of operations) who personally went into the officials' locker room at halftime to inspect all the balls.

It's still kind of hard to believe that an official who was supposed to be selling the balls for charity was instead selling them on the side. You would think that each ball would be tracked and accounted for. It's also strange that they haven't named that official (they named the other officials involved).

Here's the other thing - they are saying that suspicion was aroused because the substituted ball didn't have the correct markings by the official. The 'K' marking isn't done by the official, and I have never seen a 'K' ball that has any markings by the official - there are 16 for each game, and they are flown in and then the official holds onto them except for the time the teams have to rough them up, until game time. So no need to mark them.

In addition, while all game-used 'normal' balls DO have official markings on them, you rarely see those for sale - normally the NFL gives 'charities' (or whoever), the 'game prepared' balls that were not selected by the teams' quarterback;thus, no markings as they were never given to an official. By the way - the selling of 'game prepared' balls as 'game used' is not something that the NFL will acknowledge, but it's something I've seen over and over again. They play game-used collectors for fools.

My guess is that the NFL is giving reporters erroneous information, as a way to cover up that their processes aren't being followed.

[TUM301]

After hearing the last chapter of this saga one thing came to mind. I remember about 20+ years ago watching a movie about the great "Brinks Job". I think most fans, me included, were/are under the impression that the NFL is a huge well organized iron clad well oiled machine when it comes to game day ck lists. In actuality, much like Brinks which was all show and reputation with some of the worst security ever seen ( place was barely even locked up), the everyday rules are overseen by guys much like us. The league and it`s officials have apparently been giving lip service to "game ball " procedures for awhile and it bit them in the ass. Strangely it now sounds like at least one NFL higher up was aware of this before kick off. The more that comes out the more I`m leaning towards the Patriots being 100% in the clear and the league left with just another botched rushed to judgement fiasco. My 2 cents..........

[vintagetoppsguy]

I have an entirely different take on the situation. According to the story, an NFL Official (who was supposedly already suspected for stealing balls) gave a ball to McNally (the locker room attendant) who gave it to another NFL Official (Yvette).

That story makes no sense. Why would the first official give McNally a ball KNOWING that it wasn't a ball meant for offensive play (the ball was clearly marked as a K ball)? Surely he knew it would be caught!?!

And it sounds like McNally wasn't even supposed to be handling the ball in the first place. He should have refused to even touch the ball. Not only that, he should have KNOWN the difference between a K ball and a ball that is meant for offensive play.

It's also funny that the NFL official hasn't been named. Everybody else in the chain of events was named. Who is this 'mysterious' NFL official? Does he even exist? It's a great story if you don't have to name names.

I think Goodell is trying to protect his buddy (yes, they are buddies), Kraft and this story was either made up, or the entire truth hasn't come out.

[FenwayFaithful]

.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by FenwayFaithful

Take the tinfoil hat off, dude. McNally was given a ball by an NFL employee to give to the alternate official. What more is there to understand?

Ok, the tinfoil hat is off. I'm still not understanding. Lockerroom attendants DO NOT have ballhandling responsibilities during NFL games. So, with my tin foil hat off, I still have the same question. What was McNally doing handling balls if he's not supposed to be? Now, maybe you can take off your blinders and answer that.

Edited to clarify: McNally wasn't a new employee. Apparently, he's been with the Patriots organization for many years. He should have know better to handle balls during the game. It's not like he was the new guy that didn't know any better.

[steve B]

They probably won't name the fired official if they're going after him for theft or something criminal.

I can see a clubhouse guy being asked to return a ball to the field, Official says "Hey I grabbed the wrong ball, can you run this back out for me? " And if the handling is as sloppy as it seems to have been, he probably thought something like "Dumba** grabbed the K ball, I better get it back out there"

With such sloppy work and no proceedures followed, we'll probably never know what really happened.

Steve B

[itjclarke]

Weird story for sure. That said, I think this goes back to the fact the league did NOT CARE nearly as much about its game balls as they let on after the deflate gate story broke, or as their "procedures" would imply. I think many of these procedures are mainly for show and to help uphold their silly "Shield" image, but are mostly lip service otherwise.

In a much more serious light (not to get too off topic), who thinks the Rooney Rule is for real? I didn't see the Niners interview many/any minority coaches after firing Harbaugh and cleaning house... but this rule looks good from a PR standpoint. Julian Edelman looked pretty wobbly after getting smacked by Kam Chancellor, but it seems he (and I'm sure many others, in every game) was able to effectively dodge the league's very public concussion protocol, which would have almost certainly kept him off the field for the last drive. And then there's the league's drug testing policy, where players get nearly a day's notice before their pee test. I think all of these (and many more) procedures and protocols are good for public consumption but mostly for show. The NFL seems to do as much as they can to sanitize the game for the fans/TV viewers, but football will always be a dirty, nasty, brutal, bloody, injury and concussion filled game.

Separately, back on the topic of footballs I just got a new one, deciding to get that old Wilson 1005 ball I'd mentioned earlier. Wilson's box says something to the effect of- "made to the smallest allowable size for more confidence in throwing". Holding one of these compared to a normal game ball is crazy, and throwing a narrower ball is a far bigger advantage than lowering pressure, yet any HS or major college program can use them. This is fine to me though. Coaches, QBs can and have always been able to choose footballs they're most comfortable with and very few seem bothered by it. I have never heard fans gripe about a pass heavy team like the late '90s Florida (think Danny Wuerfel, Rex Grossman) using a totally different sized ball than Wisconsin or Nebraska. I don't really see why this has to all of a sudden change and become a big deal at the NFL level. I hope the NFL continues loosely enforcing game ball rules because I'd prefer QBs feel comfortable with their footballs, but I doubt they will after all this publicity.

[nolemmings]

No surprise here.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-...-deflate-balls

[vintagetoppsguy]

I guess the Patriots really are cheaters after all...

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/...deflated-balls

Edited: Todd beat me to it. I was trying to figure out which sources article to link.

[GoldenAge50s]

---more probable than not ---- over & over & over again!

No hard evidence there, no matter what you think!

[nolemmings]

Fred,

You do understand that the great majority of civil cases in this country are decided by that exact same standard--more probable than not or more likely than not? Every day in every State people are awarded damages and others found liable using this same standard, and it has been that way for 200 years.

It is truly sad to me that the general populace is so damn ignorant they think every dispute must be resolved beyond a reasonable doubt, and preferably with a smoking, gun, heartfelt confession and four different angles of video or it's simply "not hard evidence". You've got texts where the equipment guy proclaims himself to be "The Deflator" since at least the beginning of last season and that he was given a needle to use, the many other texts where he and another team/equipment guy are repeatedly talking about deflating footballs throughout the season and he'd better be getting new "kicks" and other goodies for his efforts, etc. You've got virtually every QB of any note whose played in the past 15 years stating there's no way Brady did not know what was going on as well as many text references to be him being pleased or displeased with these two equipment guys by the way the balls were inflated in this or that game, and you want to suggest it's not been proven to have happened? Really?

How about this--:

Additional evidence of Brady‟s awareness includes a material increase in the frequency of telephone and text communications between Brady and Jastremski shortly after suspicions of ball tampering became public on January 19. After not communicating by telephone or text message for more than six months (based on data retrieved from Jastremski‟s cell phone), Brady and Jastremski spoke by telephone at least twice on January 19 [the day after the game] 2 calls lasting a total of 25 minutes and 2 seconds), twice on January 20 (calls lasting a total of 9 minutes and 55 seconds) and twice on January 21 (calls lasting a total of 20 minutes and 52 seconds) before Jastremski surrendered his cell phone to the Patriots later that day for forensic imaging. These calls included conversations relatively early during the mornings of January 19 (7:26 a.m. for 13 minutes and 4 seconds),January 20 (8:22 a.m. for 6 minutes and 21 seconds) and January 21 (7:38 a.m. for 13 minutes and 47 seconds). Brady also took the unprecedented step of inviting Jastremski to the QB room (essentially Brady‟s office) in Gillette Stadium on January 19 [the day after the game] for the first and only time that Jastremski can recall during his twenty-year career with the Patriots, and Brady sent Jastremski text messages seemingly designed to calm Jastremski (“You good Jonny boy?”;“You doing good?”).