Card doctoring debacle

[Snapolit1]

I wonder if the card doctoring scandal will spill over somehow to the memorabilia side of things. I am not naive enough to think criminals aren't working in this side of the hobby also, but it seems to me that unique high end pieces of memorabilia with good providence are a solid bet. I am not a signature guy, but high end photos, contracts, trophies etc. seem like pretty good places to be to me.

[JoeDfan]

I collect game used and vintage bats. I have one Joe Torre that failed at PSA, I think Taube said the pine tar wasn't right or something, if I recall.
I also have a Rose S2 index bat that he didn't like the pine tar.

So I am guessing yes, if there is money in it, probably you can doctor it.

Lately, I have seen some (crude) attempts at Hanna Batrites on eBay. I think at least one fooled someone. No doubt they are just going to get better at it.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Well a certain rapper made nice money on counterfeit trophy balls

[RedsFan1941]

longtime — longer than the past month or so — collectors of memorabilia have known the importance of doing due diligence and not taking items at face value or being lulled by a flowery auction description. long before items in the Halper collection were exposed for not being what they were purported to be did knowledgeable collectors know about the large amount of fakes, doctored and “restored” vintage pieces. so to answer the OP’s question, you’re about 30 years late with it.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

longtime — longer than the past month or so — collectors of memorabilia have known the importance of doing due diligence and not taking items at face value or being lulled by a flowery auction description. long before items in the Halper collection were exposed for not being what they were purported to be did knowledgeable collectors know about the large amount of fakes, doctored and “restored” vintage pieces. so to answer the OP’s question, you’re about 30 years late with it.

I didn’t suggest there isn’t fraud. I’m sure it is. But as someone said later in the thread, in many areas we aren’t depending on grading companies to make minute or illusory judgment calls to assess whether something is extremely
Valuable as opposed to just valuable. I own a Lou Gehrig contract. Its value both objectively and subjectively to me personally is because it’s a Gehrig contract. Not because someone at PSA said it’s a 9 or a 10. And it came with sufficient providence that I have a very high degree of certainty that it’s not a forged document. It’s authentic and not dependent on someone somewhere behind a curtains opinion as to how good it is.

[RichardSimon]

Don't want to be the grammar doctor here but provenance is the word you have been looking for.
Providence has an entirely different meaning.

[drcy]

I'm sure things are worked on in other areas-- I know photographs are if someone wants me to get into that. However, the difference is grade isn't as integral to value in other areas. A "Mint' isn't valued 5x more than a "Nrmt" photograph or program.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by JoeDfan

I collect game used and vintage bats. I have one Joe Torre that failed at PSA, I think Taube said the pine tar wasn't right or something, if I recall.
I also have a Rose S2 index bat that he didn't like the pine tar.

So I am guessing yes, if there is money in it, probably you can doctor it.

Lately, I have seen some (crude) attempts at Hanna Batrites on eBay. I think at least one fooled someone. No doubt they are just going to get better at it.

But that isn't doctoring.. Your torre bat was probably used by another player which is common for players to share bats. The Rose index bat is a bat ordered by the team for whoever to use.

[JoeDfan]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

But that isn't doctoring.. Your torre bat was probably used by another player which is common for players to share bats. The Rose index bat is a bat ordered by the team for whoever to use.

Yeah, but both have the correct uniform numbers on the knob? So I just presumed someone must have added the numbers to make it look more legit.
My problem is that I have learned just enough about bats to get myself in trouble sometimes.

The seller of Torre called my attention to it specifically, and I actually thought the bat looked awesome, so I bought it anyway. He wasn't trying to mislead me or anything.
And the Rose guy offered to take it back; but again, it is a pro model Rose, so I kept it. It looks nice, and was a fraction of the cost of a Rose gamer.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by JoeDfan

I collect game used and vintage bats. I have one Joe Torre that failed at PSA, I think Taube said the pine tar wasn't right or something, if I recall.
I also have a Rose S2 index bat that he didn't like the pine tar.

So I am guessing yes, if there is money in it, probably you can doctor it.

Lately, I have seen some (crude) attempts at Hanna Batrites on eBay. I think at least one fooled someone. No doubt they are just going to get better at it.

Regarding bats, I believe that I heard John Taube say, somewhere, that he will use a magnifying lens/ microscope to look at some of the labels and names on bats to look for signs that the bat was stamped many decades ago rather than days ago. So, I have assumed that some people have been producing some pretty convincing, brand new, vintage game used bats.