PSA Collectors Club?

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Posted By: Dave Snyder

OK, this might be a really stupid question but I'm going to go with it anyway.

I've collected T206's for about 3 years now and have about 200, most of which are graded by either SGC or PSA. I try to purchase most of my cards graded - for obvious reasons - but also because I don;t like the hassle of submitting them for grading. So, I was just on PSA's web site as I'm thinking about cracking a T206 Cobb out of an SGC holder and submitting to PSA (I feel the card is seriously undergraded). I prefer SGC and have submitted 20 or so cards through them on my own, but have never gone to PSA. I was reading PSA's submission guideline's and it says I have to be either a Gold($99) or Platinum($179) collector's club member to submit a card to them? Is this right?

This conceivably could be the only card I submit to PSA and I just can't see spending $100 on top of the $55 it's already going to cost me just to get the card graded.

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Posted By: Mark T

It is useless to get a PSA membership for just one card. They do give you 6 vouchers when you sign up but you need to send a 6 at one time. If you think your Cobb will get 1 grade higher then it may be worth the money.

If you can (or want to) please post a scan of the card and get opinions...

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Posted By: Paul Grubor

Can't you find an authorized dealer in your area? Or, why not take it to a card show where PSA is set up?

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Posted By: Dave Snyder

I did post the card a couple months back and got several opinions suggesting it was undergraded, I just haven't gotten around to it yet. It's an SGC 30 and most thought it would get at least a PSA 4.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...have a conversation with SGC. Try to see them at a show, go to their office if you live close, or just call them on the phone. Get an explanation for why it graded so low. If you really prefer SGC, then a few questions will go a long way.

I've told their senior graders at shows that I disagreed with a couple of cards, and they've always asked to see them again. You will get an explanation.

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Posted By: Dave Snyder

....I live in Massachusetts on the North Shore, so there's literally no place conveneint for me to go to. Perhaps waiting for a show is the best course of action - I'm not in a hurry. Truth be told, I would prefer to keep it in an SGC holder.

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Posted By: Mark T

That would be a big jump in grade. Are you sure there a no wrinkles or a spot of paper loss that can't be seen by just looking. I believe you when you say SGC may have undergraded it.

Most of time there is a reason for a grade given.

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Posted By: sagard

If the card would warrant a two grade bump from PSA, it would probably get the same bump from SGC. Posting a scan would be very helpful.

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Posted By: Dave Snyder

........perfectly clean back too.

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Posted By: Mark T

That is a PSA 4 all the way.


Here is a card i used to own and is a 4 , so you may indeed get a nice bump.


?t=1191852950

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Posted By: Mark T

As i am looking at your Cobb i see a small speckle or dot near the bottom. SGC may have deemed that a (MK) so thats could be why it was downgraded.

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Posted By: cmoking

I think SGC will be at the Shriner's show in November. Show the card to them and see what they say. They've definitely caught stuff that I didn't notice with my cards.

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Posted By: E, Daniel

There appears to be a small horizontal'ish dent/cut to the paper surface immediately to the left of Cobb's right ear. If in fact that surface imperfection is on the card, then the grade is right on or perhaps even slightly generous. If it's just on the holder, it might be interesting if you could post a similarly great scan of the back of the card to pore over.





Daniel

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Posted By: Dave Snyder

I don't think the spot on the lower border is a mark in my opinion. If this card is fairly graded, then it's the nicest SGC 30 I've ever seen. When I bought this, I bought it for the card and I still love the card - obviously. It just gets uunder my skin when I see what I perceive to be lesser cards with better grades. Every time I see an SGC 30 come up on the board, I compare it to this Cobb, and it always wins. There's an SGC 30 Red Cobb in the BIN section on Ebay right now with 3 lines of stamping on the back! These inconsistencies on low/mid-grade cards are the biggest issue I have with the grading companies.

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Posted By: cmoking

Just crack it and sell it as a NM card. Problem solved.

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Posted By: sagard

It looks like SGC blew that one by at least one full grade. Why don't you send that back to them and they will very likely get it right with a second chance.

If SGC has a review process maybe they can point out where the mark or paper loss is, if it exists. Either way you have a beautiful card and the number on the flip does not detract from it in my eyes.

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Posted By: JK

I bet this sgc 30 gives yours a run for the money (a bit of glue residue the reverse).

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Posted By: T206Collector

2 or 3 spider wrinkles you can't see in a scan.

2 spider wrinkles = an SGC 30 and a PSA 2. PSA won't give you a bump.

This is a good thread in favor of third-party grading. It is precisely these kinds of cards that SGC lets you know to be on the look out for hard to see, not immediately evident, flaws.

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Posted By: Dave Snyder

Thanks for the feedback everyone. If there are spider wrinkles, they are so minor you can't see them with the naked eye.

Shouldn't there be a difference between a card with minor surface blemishes (assuming this card has them) vs. cards with major ones? I have probably 50-75 SGC 30 T206's in my collection and all of them look much worse than this. I have 40's that look worse than this and 50's that look similar. If someone can show me an SGC 30 that looks as good as this Cobb, I'd like to see it. Maybe this wouldn't bother me so much if it was a common

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Posted By: T206Collector

As I've said on here a few times...

Grading is like a pyramid -- all SGC 100's or PSA 10's should look identical. The lower down the scale you go, the more variance you will have in a card's appearance. At the bottom, there are countless ways for a card to receive an SGC 10 or a PSA 1. So, the important thing to remember when viewing an SGC 30 or a PSA 2 is that there could be any number of serious problems with the card -- problems that will impact the overall beauty of a card in potentially a number of different ways.

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Posted By: Dave Snyder

The pyramid argument makes sense in theory, but I have two problems with it.

1. Whatever is wrong with that Cobb is not a "serious" flaw if you have to look that long and hard to notice it. You should be able to see an immediate issue with an SGC 30.

2. If one assumes that the majority of T206's that exist are in the low-mid grade range, wouldn't you want a greater range of distiction bewteen them since that's the greatest sample size you have to judge?

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Posted By: quan

beautiful card! although i don't think it merits this much discussion and 2 threads. if i don't see any wrinkle or marking i would crack it out and resubmit.

to answer the original question yes $100 is a steep price to pay for one card...you can use the grading voucher(they give you 6) to submit the card and if you get an easy cs you might be able to keep the other 5. not sure why you're going with psa when your other t206s are in sgc holders...

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Posted By: Dave Snyder

It definitely doesn't deserve 2 threads....this one started out with my question about PSA's collector's club and then several people asked me to post a scan, so I started a different thread. I had no intention of posting it until I was asked.

Also, as stated in my original post, my collection is divided up between PSA and SGC.

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Posted By: Rob

1) beautiful card

2) if you're gonna keep the card, who cares whether the holder says 2 or 10, its a beautiful card and presents nicer than some 3s and 4s. No need to pay someone $100 to tell you what your card would grade in their eyes. Of course, if you're gonna sell it, then financially it'd make better sense to try to get a bump in grade.

3) I could be wrong, but I think if you join the collectors club you get some free grading submittals. So you wouldn't have to pay extra to get it graded on top of the "membership fee". thats how i understand it anyway

4) enjoy the card! or give it to me hee hee

Rob

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Posted By: T206Collector

<<1. Whatever is wrong with that Cobb is not a "serious" flaw if you have to look that long and hard to notice it. You should be able to see an immediate issue with an SGC 30.>>

That's a definitional issue; and a subjective issue. When I see an SGC 30 like that, I know it has spider wrinkles or glue residue. If it was an SGC 40, I would know that there was no glue and only one spider wrinkle. If it was an SGC 50, I would know that there were no wrinkles.

<<2. If one assumes that the majority of T206's that exist are in the low-mid grade range, wouldn't you want a greater range of distiction bewteen them since that's the greatest sample size you have to judge?>>

That is why SGC has a few 'tweener grades (e.g., 20 and 70). PSA certainly doesn't offer that.

SGC would like to have 25's and 35's, but they've run into a big problem in that so many 20's, 30's and 40's have already been slotted -- they run the risk of pissing off their most loyal following.

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Posted By: JK

"If someone can show me an SGC 30 that looks as good as this Cobb, I'd like to see it."

I thought I did.

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Posted By: Dave Snyder

"That's a definitional issue; and a subjective issue. When I see an SGC 30 like that, I know it has spider wrinkles or glue residue. If it was an SGC 40, I would know that there was no glue and only one spider wrinkle. If it was an SGC 50, I would know that there were no wrinkles."

But then you're letting the grade define the card instead of the card defining the grade before you even look at it and it becomes a chicken vs. egg debate. I think the card deserves to be looked at first. If I submitted that scan without the grade and polled the board memebers to guess the grade, I'm willing to bet >90% of the responders would have guessed 40 or 50.

I wish SGC would use 25's, 35's 45's to offer more variety. Who cares if they rub a few people the wrong way - 15 years ago grading companies didn't even exist so it's not like they'd be messing with a time honored tradition.

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Posted By: Dave Snyder

JK - you did......I meant to say a T206 SGC 30.....my bad!

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Posted By: T206Collector

...subjective assessments (i.e., beauty, presentation, aura) and more objective assessments (i.e., 2 spider wrinkles, glue, paper loss, centering, corner damage). Otherwise you lose the value of the grade.

Again, the whole purpose of grading is to let people on both sides of a transaction know what they are getting in terms of condition. It is up to the sellers and buyers to assign monetary values to the card, relying on both subjective and objective criteria. Not all SGC 30's will look the same; and for that reason not all SGC 30's will be priced the same. But that is a function of the marketplace, not solely the objective grade. It is a complex way of saying, don't just buy the holder.

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Posted By: JK

This one is close, its slightly miscut but has sharper corners IMO. I always believed that it should have been a 40, but never tried to resubmit it.(Disclosure - I sold this one a month or two ago):

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Posted By: Fred Y

Dave

As cmoking said earlier, SGC WILL be at the Shriners show in Wilmington on Nov 2-3-4--that's couldn't be much closer to you!

I'm sure Dave Forman will be there---take it right in for an examination!