52 Mantle's. Will they sell for asking?

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

I believe it's a common occurrence. If the AH's don't want to verify payment to VCP, maybe VCP should ask for verification? Especially when the price is more than 10% over average. If AH can't verify, VCP doesn't post.

Agreed with above post, though doubt it will happen. This would be similar to using a home appraisal, throwing out first payment defaults. VCP I believe already does eliminate the highest and lowest sales when the compute their average.


If someone doesnt pay for their house 29 years, and 11 months down the road, is THAT still a sale?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Agreed with above post, though doubt it will happen. This would be similar to using a home appraisal, throwing out first payment defaults. VCP I believe already does eliminate the highest and lowest sales when the compute their average.


If someone doesnt pay for their house 29 years, and 11 months down the road, is THAT still a sale?

All depends but its not like a legit cash deal (assuming its arms length transaction)

If somone bought a psa 5 topps mantle for 70k due to a credit card advance that he never paid and another psa 5 topps mantle went to market i know i would of wanted to know that information. When funds are borrowed to pay for things it brings up a lot more factors to me. Someone that borrows money may need to sell the card fast and attempt to flip it to pay back the loan and take risk of a loss versus a cash investor as one example. I know when a house is foreclosed on (after a recent purchase) and sold by the bank the expected new sale price from the bank will be less than the prior sale in many occasions. If no money is ever borrowed on a home there is no risk of the foreclosure fire sale.

[Republicaninmass]

What ebay sales via about paypal bill me later?

[irv]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

but again, my argument is that you can easily 'sell' something as an auction house and it not be an outright lie if money doesnt change hands.

I disagree. Like your housing analogy, whether it's the actual new owner or the bank, papers were signed and money from either the new owner or the bank did exchange hands somewhere.

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

The point was that I dont agree its an outright lie if an auction house says they 'sold' a card on their website when looking at past listings if money didnt change hands. I used the analogy of the housing market. That is all. Thanks

The buyer could have easily said he would pay a million for the card. Does that mean the card sold for a million? Talk is cheap, and even a handshake means very little this day, and neither means anything unless money actually changed hands.

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I addressed this. It was banks money not the person's money.

There was fraud on the banks

In the baseball card market we dont know if the card was actually purchased or just sold unless the auction house tells us but in both cases the card was indeed 'sold'

No it was not. Again, no signatures, face to face meetings took place, etc, etc, etc, with the card in question.

If money did not exchange hands, then there is no sale, and with no sale, they have no right to say the card sold for that amount.

Personal story. I had listed a snowmobile for sale quite a few years ago for a $1000.00 dollars. I had an out of town person call me and tell me they would take it for that amount sight unseen and would be there in 2 days to pick it up.
In the meantime, I had 2 guys come by for a look and see and they said they would take it for $800. I told them, although I didn't feel very good about it (greed got the best of me!) that I had a guy who was going to give me a $1000 for it in 2 days.

2 days came and passed, and you guessed it, the original person, who said they would buy it for a $1000.00 was nowhere to be found? I called and received no answer so I called the other 2 guys who offered me $800 but they had already purchased another sled.

Long story short, I ended up only getting $650 for it. When my friends asked what I "sold" my sled for, I told them $650 dollars,,,,,,,,,, not the $1000.00 the first guy said he would purchase it for.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I disagree. Like your housing analogy, whether it's the actual new owner or the bank, papers were signed and money from either the new owner or the bank did exchange hands somewhere.

You also agree to terms on the internet auction sites to be legally liable for your winning bids. Its an agreement you click online which is the same as a signature


The buyer could have easily said he would pay a million for the card. Does that mean the card sold for a million? Talk is cheap, and even a handshake means very little this day, and neither means anything unless money actually changed hands.

Its not about talk, theres a LEGAL OBLIGATION, why dont you win every lot at the next REA auction and not pay since talk is cheap and money wont change hands. However you wont do that because you dont want to be sued for your agreement that you had signed for online and agreed to the rules. You would owe the amounts of your winning bids.



No it was not. Again, no signatures, face to face meetings took place, etc, etc, etc, with the card in question.

If money did not exchange hands, then there is no sale, and with no sale, they have no right to say the card sold for that amount.

Thats not correct. Its sale you can get sued on by the auction house. You agreed to pay and its a sale. Otherwise, lets see you win the next 1952 Topps Mantle and not pay and see what happens.

Personal story. I had listed a snowmobile for sale quite a few years ago for a $1000.00 dollars. I had an out of town person call me and tell me they would take it for that amount sight unseen and would be there in 2 days to pick it up.
In the meantime, I had 2 guys come by for a look and see and they said they would take it for $800. I told them, although I didn't feel very good about it (greed got the best of me!) that I had a guy who was going to give me a $1000 for it in 2 days.

2 days came and passed, and you guessed it, the original person, who said they would buy it for a $1000.00 was nowhere to be found? I called and received no answer so I called the other 2 guys who offered me $800 but they had already purchased another sled.

Long story short, I ended up only getting $650 for it. When my friends asked what I "sold" my sled for, I told them $650 dollars,,,,,,,,,, not the $1000.00 the first guy said he would purchase it for.

Well if you could find the guy and could prove he agreed to pay you that money you could of sued him. However, unlike an auction house you never got a commitment in writing and probably didnt know his name and location and probably not worth your time to pursue.

Lets take in another step, people agree to pay rent (lets say $1000), then dont pay the rent at the end of the month. Money didnt change hands, but cant you tell the next prospective renter that the last renter was 'paying $1000 a month' That wouldnt be an outright lie.

Remember we are going by whether the auction house is saying an outright lie when selling a card and saying it sold for X amount but money didnt change hands. If we have to point to specific instances on each end to make an argument for our side than its not an outright lie. I didnt say its a good thing what they are doing but its not an outright lie is my argument.

[Stampsfan]

How 'bout them '52 Mantle's up for auction?

Think they'll sell for a good price?

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

How 'bout them '52 Mantle's up for auction?

Think they'll sell for a good price?

lol, +1

[irv]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Lets take in another step,,,,,,,,

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and agree to disagree.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by irv

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and agree to disagree.

Yeah its all in fun. Its one thing to respond to buy something on craigslist to someone to buy a lawnmower and not show up and the seller doesnt even know your name etc and another to bid in a Heritage Auction for a 30k card and not pay...there is definite risk of a lawsuit for damages against you in the auction situation as its deemed you 'purchased' the card.

I not sure if anyone on Net54 has any story about being the high bidder on a card over 10k and then not paying at an auction house like Heritage as I would be interested to see how it was handled..