PWCC Statement on Recent Card Trimming Concerns

[calvindog]

What Peter is trying to say is that federal mail and wire fraud statutes don’t cover the entirety of all criminal fraud statutes.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by calvindog

What Peter is trying to say is that federal mail and wire fraud statutes don’t cover the entirety of all criminal fraud statutes.

thanks for helping these few gentlemen that are very confused about stealing $$$ from people being criminal.

[T206Collector]

The reason you need the interstate commerce piece -- mail and wire, etc. -- is to get into Federal jurisdiction. But, you can sue civilly or file a criminal complaint against PWCC relying on Oregon State Law (ORS 687.011):

"Fraud or misrepresentation" means knowingly giving misinformation or a false impression through the intentional misstatement of, concealment of or failure to make known a material fact or by other means.

Here's a direct link for filing an on-line complaint (notice that the website contemplates that you can file the complaint from any state, not just Oregon):

OREGON DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE Consumer Protection Fighting Fraud.


https://justice.oregon.gov/consumercomplaints/

There is a space for identifying the entity you are complaining about if it is a website, as opposed to a brick and mortar shop.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Some of you guys have a really short memory. Remember the Joseph Pankiewicz threads? Cards going from 7s to 10s? Whatever came of that? Other than being exposed, nothing. If you're not sure what I'm referring to, just search this site by that name.

Same thing will happen in this case. Nothing. I keep repeating it, but most don't want to hear it. The grading companies are in on it. It's all fixed. I alluded to that over 5 years ago (post 429 in the thread below). Still the same 5 years later. Nothing changed, nothing will change. Most are focusing on the wrong parties involved instead of focusing on PSA. Until the focus is put on PSA, nothing changes. One thing I can say is that Brent has posted a few times about this subject. How many times has PSA posted? And that's all good. Keep ignoring PSA's involvement and using their service and buying their cards. We'll have this same conversation in another 5 years when another doctor is caught.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?p=1274471

[vintagetoppsguy]

I think most here would be happy if Brent and Moser went to prison and were paid a visit by "Bubba" every night. I don't blame you if that's how you feel. But let's say that does happen. Problem solved? No! For every Moser that's caught, there is another to take his place. You guys just don't get that. As long as the doctors can get numeric grades on doctored cards, it's going to continue to happen. So the problem isn't with the doctors, it's with the TPGs. If they did their job, none of these threads would even exist, right? Sorry you don't want to see PSA take the fall and the value of your cards take a hit, but that's what's going to have to happen to see change occur. Otherwise we can continue to have these same old tiring discussions year after year.

[Peter_Spaeth]

David I am hopeful the magnitude of this will make a difference, but like you I am far from confident in the outcome.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Some of you guys have a really short memory. Remember the Joseph Pankiewicz threads? Cards going from 7s to 10s? Whatever came of that? Other than being exposed, nothing. If you're not sure what I'm referring to, just search this site by that name.

Same thing will happen in this case. Nothing. I keep repeating it, but most don't want to hear it. The grading companies are in on it. It's all fixed. I alluded to that over 5 years ago (post 429 in the thread below). Still the same 5 years later. Nothing changed, nothing will change. Most are focusing on the wrong parties involved instead of focusing on PSA. Until the focus is put on PSA, nothing changes. One thing I can say is that Brent has posted a few times about this subject. How many times has PSA posted? And that's all good. Keep ignoring PSA's involvement and using their service and buying their cards. We'll have this same conversation in another 5 years when another doctor is caught.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?p=1274471

A new grading company (or SGC if it has the gumption and $$$ to go for it) comes into being employing the newest technology PROVING that a PSA graded card is altered. The card is then returned to PSA under the grading guaranty. Perhaps PSA will fight it tooth and nail. But (in theory) they should loose (assuming there are not statute of limitation or privity problems with invoking the guaranty). As noted in previous posts, the potential exposure to PSA will far exceed its reserves for this contingent liability, and might be great enough to wipe them out.

As a practical matter, this scenario is how I see change coming. But even if such a new grading company comes into being, it will still require the next step of enough misgraded cards being exposed to create the market reality that a card slabbed under the old method will not hold its value until regraded.

With 5, 6 and 7 figure cards now the new norm, how can such a new grading system employing the newest technology eventually not come into being? I believe it is only a matter of time. And at that point, I think accountability will not be far behind.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

A new grading company (or SGC if it has the gumption and $$$ to go for it) comes into being employing the newest technology PROVING that a PSA graded card is altered. The card is then returned to PSA under the grading guaranty. Perhaps PSA will fight it tooth and nail. But (in theory) they should loose (assuming there are not statute of limitation or privity problems with invoking the guaranty). As noted in previous posts, the potential exposure to PSA will far exceed its reserves for this contingent liability, and might be great enough to wipe them out.

As a practical matter, this scenario is how I see change coming. But even if such a new grading company comes into being, it will still require the next step of enough misgraded cards being exposed to create the market reality that a card slabbed under the old method will not hold its value until regraded.

With 5, 6 and 7 figure cards now the new norm, how can such a new grading system employing the newest technology eventually not come into being? I believe it is only a matter of time. And at that point, I think accountability will not be far behind.

I don't see any privity issues, that guarantee as worded seems to clearly run to any owner of the card, not just the original submitter. Indeed I think that was the whole point, to facilitate market confidence.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't see any privity issues, that guarantee as worded seems to clearly run to any owner of the card, not just the original submitter. Indeed I think that was the whole point, to facilitate market confidence.

I don't disagree. Just mentioned it for the sake of completeness.