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  #11  
Old 08-29-2015, 02:08 PM
TATSR TATSR is offline
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Thanks Dylan for the very cool Johnson page. I recently found this. It appears to have a green tint and bubble. Any guesses as to what PSA what label it? Ad or partially obscured?

Thanks,
Tom

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  #12  
Old 08-29-2015, 03:48 PM
TATSR TATSR is offline
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  #13  
Old 09-01-2015, 12:39 PM
jacksoncoupage jacksoncoupage is offline
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I recently posted this on another board.

Because there are so many different correction attempts, PSA has taken the lazy route and divided them all into 3 categories and even those are three are cross-contaminated at this point.

I have examples like yours in PSA 9 holders that should get the "partially obscured" descriptor but are labeled "completely blacked out" so it's a roll of the dice with them.

When it comes to this card, there are strong arguments to be made that Fleer made many changes to the card between the darkest tinting over the sign and the full blackout background (the final version that has a clean, solid black background). Most collectors argue this is ink variance but I am fairly certain there are legitimate, albeit very similar, changes to the background. This portion of the card's production run is responsible for a lot of the confusion surrounding the card.

This is the breakdown, remember there are variances between them but this is the gist:

-Clear sign (one known copy)
-Visible sign, faint haze/dark tint over sign
-Visible sign, faint haze/dark tint over sign, black bar or strip through MARLBORO
-Visible sign, faint haze/dark red tint over sign, black scribble over MARLBORO
-Visible sign, faint haze/dark green tint over sign, black scribble over MARLBORO
-Semi-visible sign, heavy tint over sign, bubble in upper sign, dark red tint
-Semi-visible sign, heavy tint over sign, no bubble, dark red tint
-Semi-visible sign, heavy tint over sign, bubble in upper sign, dark green tint
-Semi-visible sign, heavy tint over sign, no bubble, dark green tint
-Semi-visible sign, heavy tint over sign, no bubble, dark green tint, black bar or strip through MARLBORO
-Boxed sign, heavy red tint over sign, bubble in upper sign
-Boxed sign, heavy green tint over sign, bubble in upper sign
-Boxed sign, heavy red tint over sign, no bubble
-Boxed sign, heavy green tint over sign, no bubble
-Solid black background, sign appears to be digitally edited - no gap between Johnson's ear and fence/billboard in background.

Again, there are likely versions that exist between these listed here but thisa rundown of the types most likely to be found. Also note that the final corrected version (solid black background) is often affected by yellow/green print dots of various quantity and size but as with most print dots, they are random and therefore not cataloged by me as official running changes to the card.
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  #14  
Old 09-03-2015, 08:11 AM
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bnorth bnorth is offline
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Dylan have you seen the clear sign one in hand? I have only seen pics of the one in the PSA slab and it looks altered to me.

I say it looks altered because the only part of the sign that is clear is the white part. The rest of the sign looks exactly like the lightest red tint version. I would think if it was real and unaltered the whole sign would be nice and clear not just the part that can easily be made clear.
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  #15  
Old 09-04-2015, 02:17 AM
jacksoncoupage jacksoncoupage is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
Dylan have you seen the clear sign one in hand? I have only seen pics of the one in the PSA slab and it looks altered to me.

I say it looks altered because the only part of the sign that is clear is the white part. The rest of the sign looks exactly like the lightest red tint version. I would think if it was real and unaltered the whole sign would be nice and clear not just the part that can easily be made clear.
No, I have never seen one in person. In fact, the only clear example I have seen is the one at the bottom of my blog post on them and I don't know if it's in a holder or not. I recall from emailing with the guy that it hadn't been slabbed but that was 5-6 years ago.

I have always been skeptical on it but also open minded to the possibility of a clear version existing as the earliest versions appear to have received some tinting to mask the sign. So likely somewhere, even if only in pre-production samples, a clear version would exist. That and the fact that only a few copies of the Checklists with positions have been confirmed to exist tells me there are 1989 Fleer varieties produced in extremely low numbers.
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  #16  
Old 11-03-2015, 10:14 AM
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Rookiemonster Rookiemonster is offline
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I have the 1989 fleet glossy black randy Johnson and Ripken
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  #17  
Old 01-29-2016, 10:52 AM
Hatorade Hatorade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage View Post
When it comes to this card, there are strong arguments to be made that Fleer made many changes to the card between the darkest tinting over the sign and the full blackout background (the final version that has a clean, solid black background). Most collectors argue this is ink variance but I am fairly certain there are legitimate, albeit very similar, changes to the background. This portion of the card's production run is responsible for a lot of the confusion surrounding the card.
There is a feature that isn't on any of the common cards (Full blackout background) that I've seen, but that is on every one of the error cards I have(Over 1000 and climbing) that I think could put to rest any claims that ink variance is the difference and not wholesale changes Fleer made to the editing process of card. If PSA would use this it could at least stop them from labeling some of the heavily tented errors as Completely Blacked Out. Unfortunately, the Ad On Scoreboard and Ad Partially Obscured labels will still be butchered by them.
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  #18  
Old 01-29-2016, 01:03 PM
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bnorth bnorth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatorade View Post
There is a feature that isn't on any of the common cards (Full blackout background) that I've seen, but that is on every one of the error cards I have(Over 1000 and climbing) that I think could put to rest any claims that ink variance is the difference and not wholesale changes Fleer made to the editing process of card. If PSA would use this it could at least stop them from labeling some of the heavily tented errors as Completely Blacked Out. Unfortunately, the Ad On Scoreboard and Ad Partially Obscured labels will still be butchered by them.
Welcome to the forum! Glad someone besides myself hoards the error versions. I am guessing you are talking the little red swirl on the non blacked out versions.
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  #19  
Old 01-29-2016, 02:15 PM
Hatorade Hatorade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
Welcome to the forum! Glad someone besides myself hoards the error versions. I am guessing you are talking the little red swirl on the non blacked out versions.
No, the red squiggle on the bottom right of the card you're referring to is on all cards with red tininting, but isn't on the majority of cards with green tinting. There is a small black hair like marking on all the error cards and not on any of the CBO(common) cards.
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  #20  
Old 01-29-2016, 03:25 PM
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bnorth bnorth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatorade View Post
No, the red squiggle on the bottom right of the card you're referring to is on all cards with red tininting, but isn't on the majority of cards with green tinting. There is a small black hair like marking on all the error cards and not on any of the CBO(common) cards.
I will have to grab a stack and look for the small black hair. Been a while since I have looked at any of them. Did just get a 9 card binder sheet full of error versions in a big junk era purchase including a couple really dark green scribble versions. Never looked close to se what version of the scribble they are.
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