Who are the 10 most important collectors in hobby history

Here is our list based on their contribution to hobby history and the breadth and scope of their collections. There were 50 collectors on our short list.
We did include dealers who also collected. What do you think?

1. Charles Bray
2. Sir Edward Wharton Tigar
3. Buck Barker
4. Lionel Carter
5. Richard Egan
6. James Copeland
7. Frank Nagy
8. Barry Halper
9. Dr. Robert Wesiberg
10. Mark Rucker


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List
bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com

[terjung]

I can't imagine a top ten without Burdick if hobby contribution is a consideration.

[iggyman]

What about Howie "T206" McCormick??? Did he even make the cut?

Lovely Day...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by terjung

I can't imagine a top ten without Burdick if hobby contribution is a consideration.

IMHO, Burdick will always be #1.

Of Bruce's list I would not quite say the exact same ones. I would take out Copeland....easy choice there. I have never heard of Wesiberg (which doesn't mean much but I would like to think I have at least heard of the name to be in the top ten) so I would take him out and I would take out Mark Rucker. I would probably put in Larry Fritsch for several reasons....and maybe even good ole Lew Lipset. That would round out my 10, with the others Bruce listed. Just my opinion and I am sure there are some collectors I might be forgetting.......Nice question.

Here is my first take on it.....

1. Jefferson Burdick
2. Sir Edward Wharton Tigar
3. Buck Barker
4. Lionel Carter
5. Richard Egan
6. Larry Fritsch
7. Frank Nagy
8. Barry Halper
9. Lew Lipset
10. Charles Bray

[brianp-beme]

I am familiar in varying degrees with 9 of the 10 gentleman listed, but who is Dr. Robert Wesiberg--I don't recall hearing his name before (and is it possibly spelled 'Weisberg'?).

And of course Burdick should be listed.

Brian

[iggyman]

Barry Halper has lost a great deal lot of credibility lately (deservingly so). Because of that, I wouldn't exclude him from the top ten and slide Walt Corson in his place.

Lovely Day...

[usernamealreadytaken]

You guys are forgetting

"America's most important buyer of rare, high grade baseball memorabilia."

[barrysloate]

Everybody on those lists are either deceased, no longer in the hobby, or only peripherally involved. Aren't any of the present day collectors worthy of mention?

[rdixon1208]

Hobby contributions I understand, but what does the "breadth and scope of their collections" have to do with being important?

[bbcard1]

Just my opinion, but you (or me) are the most significant collector in the history of the hobby. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be beholding to those who studied or compiled masses of information, but ultimately this is a personal journey. Is it solitary? Anything but. What we truly accumulate, other than cards, are experiences, friendships, relationships and connections with others. We only own the card for a while. If we pass on a love for the game and an appreciation for the hobby, we have been significant. I have read Burdick's work. I sort of knew Frank Nagy who by all accounts was great. My brief correspondence with Lipset was more negative that positive. To me the most significant collector I met was Keith Miller, who taught me to be honest in all my dealings and to help others out when you can. I have been encouraged by a collector named Ed Woodard who taught me not to keep my stuff locked up...that I should share it every chance I get.

[teetwoohsix]

Great post bbcard1 !!!

Clayton

[JasonL]

a few of you that I like, and then I suppose some of the other ones already mentioned.

[oldjudge]

In order of importance:

1.Wharton Tigar
2.Jeff Burdick
3.Lew Lipset
4.Barry Halper
5.Richard Masson
6.Frank Nagy
7.Buck Barker
8.Keith Olbermann
9.Lionel Carter
10.Charles Bray

Honorable Mention: Rich Egan, Larry Fritsch, Keith Mitchell, Don McPherson. The best collections ever are, I believe, held by a few modern collectors.

[sb1]

Given enough time and opportunity that order will change

[Robextend]

I am not sure where he ranks all-time, but Randy Stuckemeyer had quite the collection.

[David W]

I would think Barry Halper for amassing such a vast and diverse collection (authenticity questions aside), Dr. James Beckett for his collection and his price guides and how that changed the hobby from circa 1980 to 2000, and PSA for introducing the grading system to the hobby, which like it or not, has transformed the way cards are bought and sold the last 10 years.

Also Larry Fritch has to be on there somewhere. Just about everybody has bought something from Larry Fritch at some time in there life.

[GoSoxBoSox]

Originally Posted by Yankeefan51

Here is our list based on their contribution to hobby history and the breadth and scope of their collections. There were 50 collectors on our short list.
We did include dealers who also collected. What do you think?

Just wondering, who exactly is "our" and "we" you speak of? Are you speaking for a group of collectors who you polled eslewhere besides here on N54?

I don't mean to sound ignorant by asking these questions. I only ask because I have read a number of your posts and you always seem to be speaking for some group of people?

Thanks in advance for your answer.

I like the list pssted by oldjudge except that I don't know what Keith Olbermann has done for the hobby (not necessary the order he posted them in)? I'm not saying he did nothing. I'm just saying I don't know what he has brought. I do think Fritsch & Randy belong there plus another current collector who I'm sure doesn't want his name mentioned here. My honorable mention might be Marshall Fogel considering his memorabilia. If Halper is considered Marshall should be as well, IMO.

[oldjudge]

Tom-I was ranking collections as much as contributions to the hobby. Keith has one of the greatest collections ever and he has written some very informative hobby articles. While both Marshall and Randy have great collections, I don't think they are in the same class as some of the others mentioned.

[barrysloate]

Tom- Bruce refers to himself in the first person plural. When he says "we" he means "I."

[rdixon1208]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Tom- Bruce refers to himself in the first person plural. When he says "we" he means "I."

Which is about the most annoying thing I've ever read.

[Orioles1954]

We rank myself in the top 10.

We made a mistake in not including Burdick- in fact he was on the top of a list of 50 collectors who served as our short list

We agree that Larry Fritsch (although we only knew Larry as a dealer more than as a collector) and Don MacPherson should be somewhere in top 10-15

Again one of the criteria that we used was contribution to the hobby.

As for more other collectors who are alive and kicking (or recently deceased) albeit,not all of them are active, our list would includes

Jim Blumenthal
John Buonaguidi
Tom Collier (deceased- we think)
Mark Cooper
Ken Felden- best memorabilia collection we ever saw
Marshall Fogel
Larry Fritsch
Dan Gantt
Gerry Glasser
Dennis Goldstein
Jim Horne
Scott Ireland
John Kasmaian
Larry Kelley
Terry Knouse
Lew Lipset
Rob Lifson
George Lyons (now deceased)
Marc MacRae
Dan McKee
Charlie Merkel
Joe Michaelowitz
Gar Miller
Jay Miller
Lew Newman
Bob Richardson
Corey Shanus
Barry Sloate
Don Spence
Don Stenibach (now deceased)
Robert Thing

[HRBAKER]

Us am confused by all of this.

[Cooptown]

I know Halper has some questionability arise to some of the items, but what exactly is the question? Forged jerseys? Autographs? Cards?

[tbob]

I have to add Mark Macrae and Lionel Carter.
How can you have a top 10 without these two? Mark knows more about PCL cards than anyone in the hobby and has always been willing to share his knowledge. Carter was a hobby pioneer. 'Nuff said.

Hi T Bob

Lionel Carter was Number 5 on our list

Happy Labor Day !

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

[Chris Counts]

I'm not sure he would qualify as a collector, and from my dealings with him, I'm not even sure he liked cards, but it seems like there has to be a place on the list for Goodwin Goldfaden. Does he qualify as the first card dealer ever?

[wake.up.the.echoes]

.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

In the honorable mention category I would have to add John England. When he sold his collection to Fritsch it took three North American moving vans according to the old SCD story on the sale to move it to Wisconsin.

During a phone visit with Larry he told me that his personal collection more than doubled with the purchase.

After years of buying trips to John I would have never known. He did put me in touch with Wharton-Tigar when I told him I would like to find some old tennis cards back in the late 70s. That was a fun experience!

[philliesphan]

can name three to five people who should be on a list like this, but they want their privacy, and we help them maintain it by not ranking collection competition in threads like these.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DzX18o-zsA
(perhaps the inspiration for Bruce's plurality)

Whilst we recognize your point of view on privacy, everyone on our list (s) wrote about the hobby in magazines like The Card Collector or Trader Speaks, and/or often advertised or they were large bidders at major public auctions.

Therefore, there is nothing wrong about naming said people. There are no secrets in this hobby. We have over 2000 articles on sports collecting
and over 500 back copies of baseball memorabilia trade publications
dating back to 1927. Furthermore, at each of early Sotheby's auctions
and early Leland auctions- we tracked the winning floor bidder and recorded his name so we could trace history of the items.

Many of the 30+ major items that we obtained since the 2010 National came from individuals who are not visible at all, but own world class collections.

We hope you see our point. If one spends thousands of hours tracing hobby publications, talking to collectors and dealers and reviewing magazine ads
and auction catalogs,,,one certainly has the right to publish a list.

Given the number of responses from other Board Members, we would say that Philliesphan that you are "out in left field" on this issue.

We await your response.

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List
bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com

[Peter_Spaeth]

i could well be wrong, but I think it would be very difficult given the nature of the hobby to amass a leading collection so far under the radar that it would not be common knowledge at least in general terms.

[GoSoxBoSox]

Philliesphan couldn't be more right when he says there are at least 3-5 people not on your list that should be way up on your list. And I agree with him that it is only right for us to respect their wishes by not calling their names out in public.

Yankeefan51, all of you over there need to calm down. There is no reason for any of you to say that just because he told all of you the truth.

[Leon]

I can't imagine all of these anonymous folks being so helpful to the hobby? If they are so helpful why the anonymity? Isn't that counter to what is being discussed? Also, I am taking the title literally. For me, the most important collectors aren't the ones with the most money that can buy whatever they want to. I don't begrudge them whatever they want to do but I just don't think buying a large collection necessarily helps the hobby. I guess it does in the sense that it keeps it moving but I like to think of helping the hobby as actually helping collectors. If the anonymous people are big registry guys then I would say they are great for the registry, might be really nice guys and collectors, but I am not sure that helps the hobby in general...though that can definitely be argued and I could see the other side of that argument too. Interesting discussion....way to go Brucii

[Wesley]

What about Marshall Fogel? In addition to having a great collection, he is ready to spearhead a nonprofit hobby watchdog organization. That is a pretty significant contribution to the hobby.

[GoSoxBoSox]

I agree with what you said Leon. I admit that I was not looking at contribution to the hobby as much as breathe, depth, etc. of their collections when I say there are at least 3-5 people who should be on that list.

To be honest, I assumed (wrongly) that this second list that the Brucii posted wasn't about contributions to the hobby because there are more than a couple people on that list that I don't know about having contributed much if anything outside of having huge collections? I could be wrong. I'm just saying I don't know what they contributed that was so great? I don't want to be disrespectful by calling out their names but there are some obvious ones to me. I'm not bad talking them because they sure as hell don't owe "the hobby" anything. They should be enjoying it like the rest of us.

If I'm wrong please go down the list and explain to me what each of those people contributed to the hobby outside of compiling huge collctions? You can skip obvious people like Burdick, Fritsch, Lifson, J. Miller and Lipset. Outside of those five gentlemen I would love the education so I can give each of these men the proper respect they deserve.

Thanks in advance.

Tom

[GoSoxBoSox]

Originally Posted by Wesley

What about Marshall Fogel? In addition to having a great collection, he is ready to spearhead a nonprofit hobby watchdog organization. That is a pretty significant contribution to the hobby.

He needs to do it first to deserve the honor. Of course, it should also have a positive impact

[GoSoxBoSox]

Since there are a couple of dead people listed on list B can we (meaning Bruce) just merge both lists into one list? It would be great to use that one list to show who contributed what to the hobby.

Thanks!

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by Wesley

What about Marshall Fogel? In addition to having a great collection, he is ready to spearhead a nonprofit hobby watchdog organization. That is a pretty significant contribution to the hobby.

Don't forget that seminar on "how to handle your investment portfolio of sports memorabilia" he held.

[teetwoohsix]

IMO, some of the most important collectors in hobby history are the ones who so kindly provide us with their knowledge and insight about the cards they love and collect, and share pictures & scans of cards we may never get a chance to own. Collectors who run websites devoted to the cards we love (Net54,oldcardboard,T206.org,etc.) and who write books (Jefferson Burdick-ACC,,,, Jay M.,Joe G., and Richard M.-The Photographic Baseball Cards of Goodwin & Company 1886-1890,,,Scot R.-Inside T206,,,,,Lew Lipset-The Encyclopedia of Baseball (all volumes),,,,,etc.

I think the title of this thread could've been " Who has had the most impressive collection in hobby history".

Clayton

[Leon]

I hate to be so agreeable, because it's not generally my nature, but you guys are absolutely correct. What we are discussing really needs to be split into two, as one is not really dependant on the other.

1. Who has/had the best baseball card collection?
1b. Who has/had the best sports memorabilia collection?

2. Who has/have contributed most (positively) to the baseball card hobby? (I am being specific on purpose)

Defining the questions would lead to different answers, most times, and I can understand and would even stick up for a collectors right to be private. It's their collecting...more power to them. On the other hand, to contribute positively to the hobby, it might be difficult to remain anonymous or behind the scenes.

regards

[GoSoxBoSox]

All would be interesting conversations.

I am particularly interested in a thread that addresses "Who has/have contributed most (positively) to the baseball card hobby?" and what was the contribution and impact? I think everyone can learn something on a thread like that and it would not be nearly as self-serving as the original thread topic was meant to be.

Edited to add: Right after Jefferson Burdick I would like to nominate Elliot Bassin for putting Net54 on the map

[teetwoohsix]

+1

[Peter_Spaeth]

Finding and buying cards, and selling them as a collector, was made easier by a quantum leap with the advent of ebay, so I would nominate Pierre Omidyar.

[GoSoxBoSox]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Finding and buying cards, and selling them as a collector, was made easier by a quantum leap with the advent of ebay, so I would nominate Pierre Omidyar.

True, true Peter. I guess we should probably set out by saying the contributions should be specifically made for this hobby (card collecting). If not I can see people adding the inventors of paper, camera's, ink, printing presses, etc. I wouldn't call any of these people, nor Pierre, great sportscard hobby contributors. Just my opinion, of course. But I can see both sides of that argument.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Like him or not (hi Jeff!) Bill Mastro was a driving force in establishing the auction as a fixture in the hobby.

[calvindog]

Bill is an awesome dude. I hope he can be Best Man at my 14th wedding someday.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by Yankeefan51

Hi T Bob

Lionel Carter was Number 5 on our list

Happy Labor Day !

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

Thanks Bruce, you too. I somehow missed Carter's name, long day at work

[tbob]

Originally Posted by Hot Springs Bathers

In the honorable mention category I would have to add John England. When he sold his collection to Fritsch it took three North American moving vans according to the old SCD story on the sale to move it to Wisconsin.

During a phone visit with Larry he told me that his personal collection more than doubled with the purchase.

After years of buying trips to John I would have never known. He did put me in touch with Wharton-Tigar when I told him I would like to find some old tennis cards back in the late 70s. That was a fun experience!

Yes, old John He was one of my partners when we bought "The Southern Find," the largest discovery of Coupons ever made (I believe). I met John in the early 80's. John owned a card store in Fort Smith, Arkansas located on the second floor of Vivian's Bookstore. At one time his collection was outstanding. He had an unbelievable collection of tobacco and caramel cards and had (arguably) the largest and most complete collection of Zeenuts ever put together, although Mark M. told me it wasn't quite #1. It had to be close. I remember when he began to get disinterested in cards and sold his collection to Larry Fritsch for a huge sum. He still had his store inventory and ran a business for several years but it seemed like his heart wasn't in it and eventually he sold the business. I spoke to him a few years ago and he is completely out of card collecting and his obsession is now jazz records and he has a ton. I always wondered if he regretted selling his marvelous collection. He was a set completist and I bet his collection of cards could have rivaled anyone's.

[Jewish-collector]

Bruce started a similar thread back about 2 years ago.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ial+collectors