Let the bidding frenzy begin......

[nolemmings]

While the line can be blurry, there is certainly no comparison between a 24 hour, poorly/vaguely- described auction on Ebay and a major auction house's featured item in a two-week auction directed expressly at our hobby. None.

I do not believe in outing any auctions, but it is fair to suggest that a major auction house that sends out specific-target advertising and catalogues and provides such a lengthy time for discovery and thus bidding is not really capable of being "outed". This is particularly true if you're talking about a T206 Plank. Of course, this is not what happened in the Ruth m101-6 ebay auction.

It does become more complicated if the seller is a less-prominent auction house. Also, I have seen little gems buried in multi-card lots in major house auctions, some added late to the catalogue/website, that should not be "outed", IMO.

There may not be an absolute rule against exposing ongoing auctions and probably should not be. However, as Pete said, it is a matter of etiquette. When in doubt, don't out.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

My Hero!

On second thought, I think that the following rules should be implemented effective immediately :

#1 - It shall be against the rules to "out" any auction, by anyone, including the seller.

#2 - All auctions shall be run by me before they are posted on ebay or any other company site, or published in any catalog, so that I can see what they are, and if I want to buy the item, please refer to rule #1

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

On second thought, I think that the following rules should be implemented effective immediately :

#1 - It shall be against the rules to "out" any auction, by anyone, including the seller.

#2 - All auctions shall be run by me before they are posted on ebay or any other company site, or published in any catalog, so that I can see what they are, and if I want to buy the item, please refer to rule #1

Ahhh, ego reinforcement. Love it . I actually have a list I'd like to run by you, but it violates rule #1.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

Ahhh, ego reinforcement. Love it . I actually have a list I'd like to run by you, but it violates rule #1.

Drats! Foiled!

Revision of rule #2 :

#2 - All POTENTIAL auctions shall be run by me before they are posted on ebay or any other company site, or published in any catalog, so that I can see what they are, and if I want to buy the item, please refer to rule #1

That's better.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by glchen

One other thing that I don't quite understand is some arguments for this have been framed around "well, you just wanted to get a steal, which is why you didn't want the auction outed?" Are people jealous when other board members get good deals or something? I don't understand this point. For example, when Leon got a particular good deal on a Tobaco Angola card for Ruth that did not list Ruth in the ebay listing, I was not jealous. I was unhappy that I did not know about that auction so I didn't bid on it, but I was happy for Leon and the other board members who put in the work to troll through ebay listing after listing to find these great cards.

I don't think people get jealous about people getting good deals, speaking for myself, I'm happy for people when they get a great deal. Like I said earlier, I understand why people don't want auctions outed. I am not confused about the benefits to some of an auction being missed by the majority.

I bet you wouldn't mind if the auction was only "outed" to you via a PM, and you and only you had a chance to bid on it. Would you be morally upset by that type of outing? Of course not. But, if it's outed to the whole board, it's a sin.

Sincerely, Clayton

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Drats! Foiled!

Revision of rule #2 :

#2 - All POTENTIAL auctions shall be run by me before they are posted on ebay or any other company site, or published in any catalog, so that I can see what they are, and if I want to buy the item, please refer to rule #1

That's better.

Doug,

You're still my Hero .

[Bigdaddy]

'Outing' an auction is somehow considered bad?? So letting a card sell for less than the market value is good? Is that good for the seller?? Is that good for the community as a whole - artifically holding down realized prices so that one person can get a 'good deal'?

We're mostly free-market supporters here, right? Why would the community want to suppress demand for anything?

I don't get it, unless I'm only out for ol' #1 and you have 'outed' the auction that I was planning to get a steal on.

[ctownboy]

For those who think "outing" an auction is OK, I say you are wrong.

If you don't have the time (or are too lazy) to comb through page after page of over-priced cards or shiny new junk on eBay, I ask WHY you should get the advantage of bidding on or buying a card you did little to no work for?

If I person puts in the time on eBay to find an under-priced gem then I think they should get the reward for that effort.

I mean, how would YOU like it if YOU were to go to the National and spend hours walking the aisles and YOU found something under-priced in a dealers case and, just as YOU were going to buy it, I stepped up and said VERY LOUDLY, "Wow, look at how low priced this rare card is?". Would YOU be upset about that?

Look, people think it is OK, to drive around neighborhoods looking in garages with their doors open and out in the countryside for parked cars that might be for sale at bargain prices.

People think it is OK to study and learn about real estate and then go looking for bargain properties to buy.

People think it is OK to comb the Wall Street Journal or look on line for under-priced stocks that they hope to buy and make a profit on.

Hardly anybody begrudges these people their time and effort (work) that they have put in to these endeavors in hopes of making a profit so what is the difference about a baseball card?

If YOU were the guy who found the rare car or the under-priced piece of real estate or stock, how would YOU feel if, after all of YOUR time and effort, somebody else came along and let a heck of a lot more people know about what YOU had found and THAT caused the price to increase?

Personally, I would be pissed. I think the SAME consideration should go for outing auctions.

The only way I think an auction should be outed is if there is a misrepresentation that can be or should be corrected (for auction houses) or, if on eBay, a seller is trying to sell a fake or reprint and we think people should know about it so that they don't get ripped off.

That is just my two cents on this issue.

David.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

People think it is OK to comb the Wall Street Journal or look on line for under-priced stocks that they hope to buy and make a profit on.

And when people give a recommendation on CNBC or some other news network, people don't go in an uproar if it was their stock that they were watching.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

If I person puts in the time on eBay to find an under-priced gem then I think they should get the reward for that effort.

That is true. They should get that reward, if they choose. Then again, it's their information and they can also divulge it, if they choose. In this case, the OP put in the time on eBay to find an under-priced item (just as you described above), so it's his information to do with as he pleases. If he wants to keep it to himself, he has an opportunity to be rewarded for his efforts. Or if he wishes to divulge the information, so be it - it's his information because he put in the time/effort as you described.

[Bigdaddy]

One thing that Ebay has done is to bring together buyers and sellers (from around the world) and let the market determine the price of an item - better than almost any other mechanism that I can recall in my limited experience.

For every buyer that gets a 'steal', a seller loses a potential profit. If a fair price is agreed upon, then both parties walk away content.

I guess I just don't see what's wrong with letting the market work efficiently.

So yeah, I'd be bummed if I had a beeline on a mis-catagorized card on the Bay and thought I was going to get it for some less-than-fair price, but I've got no right to whine and complain because someone out-bid me.

[ullmandds]

David...well said!

[T206DK]

cry-babies .....man !!! these are baseball cards guys....not stocks,bonds,gold,real estate,or anything with real value. A card in an outed auction is only worth what someone is willing to pay. I , unfortunately could not trade the chevy dealer up the road some T206 hall of famers for a new car. he told me I had to have real money

[ullmandds]

If a patient came into my practice and had a box of tobacco and caramel cards...and no insurance or cash...id happily trade my services for cards.

Cards are currency...you are incorrect!

[atx840]

Anyone know if this is scrap or not...thanks.

[ctownboy]

Jake,

Yes, a person who had already purchased that stock would certainly be happy if a person went on CNBC to tout it and it apreciated in value because of the recommendation. But that is not what happened with the Ruth card and you (and others) don't seem to understand this. The Ruth card didn't sell and THEN the auction was outed, the Ruth card was still up for grabs when the info came out about it.

This would be like YOU doing research on a stock and putting in a market order tonight and going to bed feeling happy about the potential profit you were about to make because of the effort YOU had put in and THEN finding out tomorrow morning that you DIDN'T get the stock at the low price you thought you were going to get it at because at 9:15 A.M., an analyst went on CNBC and touted it as a raving buy because of whatever reason.

Vintagetoppsguy,

If a person were interested in this Ruth card and thought it was flying under the radar and was, thus, under-priced, WHY for Heaven's (or Pete's) sake would they come on this board and out it? Why wouldn't they just keep quiet until AFTER the auction had ended?

T206dk,

"cry-babies .....man !!! these are baseball cards guys....not stocks,bonds,gold,real estate,or anything with real value. A card in an outed auction is only worth what someone is willing to pay. I , unfortunately could not trade the chevy dealer up the road some T206 hall of famers for a new car. he told me I had to have real money."

Really? Cry babies? These cards are NOT stocks, bonds, gold, real estate or anything with real value?

WOW!!!!!

Let me ask you this? If you wanted to buy this card and had the choice of paying $4,000 dollars or $10,000 dollars which would you choose? Would YOU be upset if for some reason somebody else caused you to pay the additional $6,000 dollars?

If you OWNED this card which would you rather have, the $4,000 or the $10,000? In either case, that $6,000 dollars IS REAL MONEY!!!!!

If I had $10,000 to spend on cards and could buy this Ruth I would be happy if I only had to pay $4,000 dollars for it. Because that would mean I had $6,000 dollars to spend on OTHER cards.

If I OWNED this Ruth, I would be happy if the price jumped from $4,000 dollars to $10,000 dollars because that would mean I HAD an extra $6,000 dollars to go to the car dealer and buy a car with.

Finally, for those who don't think outing an auction is such a big deal because, in the end, the seller gets more money for what they are selling, do YOU pay full price at a business when THEY are having a sale? I mean, YOU wouldn't pay less for something that a business is selling because if you did that would mean that business wasn't getting as much money as they should be getting.

David

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

Jake,

Yes, a person who had already purchased that stock would certainly be happy if a person went on CNBC to tout it and it apreciated in value because of the recommendation. But that is not what happened with the Ruth card and you (and others) don't seem to understand this. The Ruth card didn't sell and THEN the auction was outed, the Ruth card was still up for grabs when the info came out about it.

This would be like YOU doing research on a stock and putting in a market order tonight and going to bed feeling happy about the potential profit you were about to make because of the effort YOU had put in and THEN finding out tomorrow morning that you DIDN'T get the stock at the low price you thought you were going to get it at because at 9:15 A.M., an analyst went on CNBC and touted it as a raving buy because of whatever reason.

I actually was talking about if the stock was on someone's watch list and not yet bought. All info for public stocks are just that "public". You and I have the same access to the same information. Obviously fees are charged for expert opinions and analysis, but the basis is still there.

The same applies with eBay, this isn't some arbitrary estate sale in Wichita Kansas. This is a listing on a website that everyone and anyone can lookup. Every listing on this website can be found by anyone. If someone finds a listing people might be interestead in it is his privilege to report, keep it to himself and/or tell a select few.

If I had the option to have

A) all listings placed well, described well and scanned well.

B) all listing placed poorly, described poorly and scanned poorly.

I would choose A every time. I would prefer every person to have an equal opportunity to purchase every item.

[teetwoohsix]

David- since you are throwing out hypothetical situations, let me present you with this hypothetical:

I stumble upon a rare Ruth card that isn't listed correctly on ebay. I know that there may be 30 to 40 board members who would love to bid on the card, but I'm not sure that they even know about it. I have no intentions of bidding on it myself, and it's a 24 hour auction. I just worked all day, and don't have the time to PM every board member I think would love to bid on this card, being that the auction is already underway.

Do I bring the auction to the boards attention, thus giving my fellow board members a shot at the card they may not have known about-or-do I not say anything?

I'm not saying this is the reason the thread was started, but would love to hear your take on this hypothetical. Thanks-

Sincerely, Clayton

[smotan_02]

If you're not using the ebay mobile app for your phone or tablet, your missing out on one of the best tools to help you find great deals. There I outed all the great deals at once...

[rainier2004]

I guess my slant is different. I have really collected only CJs the past couple years with the 1914s worth anywhere from 1.5 to 10xs the value of their 1915 counterparts. Sometimes 1914s would be listed as 1915s most of these sellers didnt know the difference and Id email them to correct it. I guess I feel I had the same motivation as the "outers" here, but emailing the seller seemed more appropriate than posting on the front page here...and Ive found a lot of CJ collectors never verify the year on these sales. I just dont see why someone would out the auction...and if we all did that wouldnt the front page be filled with these?

[ctownboy]

Clayton,

In the situation you described, if you found the card and they didn't and you have no interest in the card then you shouldn't say anything. If so think so many people are interested and all of them missed it then that is their fault.

I mean, if you were to out it by private messaging people, how would you decide who you PM'd first? Because whoever was PM'd earlier would have an advantage. If other people found out you were PM'ing people about this card, don't you think they would be upset if you sent the message to another person before them?

The only two solutions I see as possible with your scenario are these:

1) Do nothing. If you found this card, have no interest in it and the other board members didn't find it then that is their bad luck.

2) If you have the means, buy the card yourself and then either relist it on eBay in the proper category with the proper description and tell other board members about it in the proper B/S/T area or send it to an auction house which deals in sports items. That way everyone who is interested has a chance at the card.

Number two might seem crass but YOU did the work and found the card and YOU would be reaping the benefits.

This past Summer, I missed out on a T206 card with a brown Hindu back. The cost was all of $5 dollars. The sad thing is, I KNEW about this card for a couple of years.

This person had a yard sale about three years ago and I asked if they had any sports stuff. This guy said his Dad had collected some cards and he took me into his garage. There I found a literal stack of boxes and albums of cards. Most of the stuff was newer shiny crap but he had, by some way, found some older cards too.

In one box on top of the stack were the older cards he had found. There were three T206's in that box. The one with a brown Hindu back (a common), another common with a Piedmont back and then a common with a large chunk out of it. I asked if any of these cards were for sale and he said yes but he would have to do some investigation and get back to me (since his Dad had recently died). I gave him my name and number and left. I never heard back from him.

Flash forward to last Summer. My Mom tells me that her neighborhood is having a community sale and she wants me to help her clean her yard up and dig through the attic, closets, basement and garage to find things to sell at the sale she is going to have. I think about the guy with the cards and make a mental note to go see if he is 1) still living in the house, 2) still has the cards and 3) has decided if he is going to sell the cards and for how much. Unfortunately, I got busy (and tired) doing all of the work Mom wanted me to do and didn't have a chance to get to the guy's house before the sale started.

So, after I helped Mom get all of her stuff out the morning of the sale, I drove to the guy's house and yes, he still lived there, yes, he still had the cards and yes, he was selling them. I looked around and found two of the three T206's. I asked about the third and he said he had sold that one earlier in the morning.

So, because of my own mistake, I cost myself the chance to buy a brown Hindu backed T206 for $5 dollars. I had the information and didn't act on it. I didn't act on this info for three years out of respect for the guy's Dad having died and the seller not knowing if he wanted to sell or not. In that time period, collecting the different backs has become more popular and brown Hindu's have gone up in price. I kick myself every time I think about this. But whose fault is it? MINE!!!

I did the work but failed to follow through. Somebody else obviously didn't and they got the benefits of it.

To make this long story short, I think the people who do the work should get the benefits of that work. That, to me, means if YOU dig through the pages of eBay and find something YOU think is undervalued then either YOU should take advantage of that situation or just let it go. If other people don't find it then that is their tough luck. Outing an auction just makes hard feelings for all involved. So, what people don't know wont hurt them and wont cause a stink on this board.

David

[Jlighter]

Ctownboy- your comparisons are not really apt. Your comparing a small town sale that only a few people would be at leisure to access, to a widely and heavily used public website.

[Leon]

The one thing I hope members take away from this thread, is the fact that there really can't be a rule about outing, other than it's against the rules to out your own auction, or conspire with someone to do it for one of theirs. At this stage in our forum I think (I could be wrong) most of our rules, or instances of no-rules, are sound. That being said the best way to stay current is to always entertain other ideas. There has to be a better mousetrap!! (well, maybe)

[cubsfan-budman]

In a practical sense, I only see positives from outing an auction, as long as its adhering to Leon's rules (i.e. don't out your own auctions):

1. The seller got the price that they deserved
2. The buyer got a card they wanted (that they may not have known about)
3. Other bidders didn't get the card, but they also didn't spend $10.6k

So, its "wins" all around in my opinion

[Leon]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

...So, its "wins" all around in my opinion

I dunno, ask the guy that paid 10.6k if he would have preferred it be outed or not.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by Leon

I dunno, ask the guy that paid 10.6k if he would have preferred it be outed or not.

Indeed. Maybe he didn't know about it until it got outed?

Also, it's been mentioned in another thread and seemed to get pretty unanimous support: don't bid more than you're willing to spend.

Pretty good rule of thumb.

Finally, why is the buyer more important than the seller? Everyone is concentrating on what a great deal COULD have been had on this card. Isn't the seller entitled to getting what the card is worth?

Again, assuming the buyer didn't go into debt or something to buy the card, everyone got an equitable deal here.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

Indeed. Maybe he didn't know about it until it got outed?

Also, it's been mentioned in another thread and seemed to get pretty unanimous support: don't bid more than you're willing to spend.

Pretty good rule of thumb.

Finally, why is the buyer more important than the seller? Everyone is concentrating on what a great deal COULD have been had on this card. Isn't the seller entitled to getting what the card is worth?

Again, assuming the buyer didn't go into debt or something to buy the card, everyone got an equitable deal here.

Hey, there is a reason there is no rule. I am just saying, if I were the buyer I would prefer not to have thousands of unnecessary collectors looking at what I am bidding on and talking about it. It probably did work out better for the seller. Of course the seller is entitled to every penny he can get....but it is his/her responsibility to get the most for it, not ours. I will reiterate, these are all reasons there is no rule. Happy collecting....

[ullmandds]

This is getting kinda old...but...in this case the buyer did not do his due diligence on selling the card...he did not assign an acc designation to it...did not mention the manufacturer/maker of the card...his description was vague and therefore he did not deserve full value...in my opinion. It is not the buyers job to market and promote someone elses auction.

[teetwoohsix]

Thanks for the reply David.

I totally understand where you are coming from, and agree on some points. In your scenario though, you knew about the cards for a couple of years. In my scenario, the 24 hour auction is already underway.

I get the points about someone doing a lot of combing through ebay (you say this is the hard work) and finding a possible steal-and then someone else outs the auction, and you are now competing with many instead of a few- but,even if you are only competeing with a few, you still may get blown out of the water by one of those few having deep pockets-thus, your hard work doesn't give you any reward, only frustration. There's no guarantee either way that you will win the card.

As far as PM'ing board members- I'm sure this happens all of the time. I may not have an interest in a card, for whatever means- but, may PM another member who I think may want it- is this wrong? You are saying I should just buy the card, and offer it to him myself?

I think where you lose me is when you say if the person doesn't do the work, for any reason, they should not have a shot at the card. I say this because (keep in mind, 24 hour auction) somepeople work 8,10,12 hours a day-then, they come home and deal with wife and kids, etc- maybe don't have the time to scour pages of ebay etc. But, they work hard in life and would love to spend their hard earned money on this card in the 24 hour auction. I think that person should have as much of a chance to buy the card as the person sitting on ebay all day with the time to scour the pages....after all, ebay is open to everyone nationwide.

In another post, you kind of described two types of people, one who didn't have the time to search, and one who is lazy. Of course no one wants the lazy person to win but unfortunately ebay auctions don't work that way-it's all about who is willing to spend the most money-period.

No one in life wants to feel that the reward of all of their hard work will be reaped by someone else. But I guess to me when looking at cards/hobby I don't equate it with a grueling 10 hour day at work (I know some people here who sell will disagree with that statement ) - meaning, a hobby should be fun, not some cut throat "I found it first, F everyone else, too bad for them they didn't find it, it's ALL MIIINNNEEE" type of thing.

Anyhow- I've never outed an auction. But, truth be known, I don't really care. I've just found this to be an interesting thread where it comes down to ethics and morals, and seeing where people agree and disagree.

Thanks again for the reply-

Sincerely, Clayton

[ullmandds]

I think where you lose me is when you say if the person doesn't do the work, for any reson, they should not have a shot at the card. I say this because (keep in mind, 24 hour auction) somepeople work 8,10,12 hours a day-then, they come home and deal with wife and kids, etc- maybe don't have the time to scour pages of ebay etc. But, they work hard in life and would love to spend their hard earned money on this card in the 24 hour auction. I think that person should have as much of a chance to buy the card as the person sitting on ebay all day with the time to scour the pages....after all, ebay is open to everyone nationwide.

This argument makes no sense to me at all?!?! If someone works 10-12-whatever hours/day and then has to tend to their wife and/or kids...this is the life they have chosen. If one chooses to go to the gym for 4 hours after working every day and as a result doesn't take the time to scour ebay for deals on vintage bb cards...why the hell should they reap the rewards of someone who puts in the time? Makes absolutely no sense!

pete

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

This is getting kinda old...but...in this case the buyer did not do his due diligence on selling the card...he did not assign an acc designation to it...did not mention the manufacturer/maker of the card...his description was vague and therefore he did not deserve full value...in my opinion. It is not the buyers job to market and promote someone elses auction.

Love the attitude. "If you don't know what you have, you *deserve* to get taken advantage of!".

[glchen]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

Love the attitude. "If you don't know what you have, you *deserve* to get taken advantage of!".

Geez, you're such a good person, how come you don't go through some ebay auctions, and if they are badly described, scanned, or miscategorized, out them on the main board so the poor seller doesn't get taken advantage of?

[ullmandds]

Not exactly...this guy knew what he had had significant value...he chose not to take 5-10 minutes to research it...the card says f and m on the bottom...had he googled babe ruth f and m he most likely would have found some info on this card...including recent sales prices.

How much effort would this take? Not much?

If one is a go getter...a hard worker...he/she deserves to reap the benefits of his/her hard work...as compared to the lazy one...who in my opinion does not deserve the same!

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by glchen

Geez, you're such a good person, how come you don't go through some ebay auctions, and if they are badly described, scanned, or miscategorized, out them on the main board so the poor seller doesn't get taken advantage of?

Just curious here, Gary...any reason you're taking this thread so personal? Peter seems offended as well...even thinks the thread is getting old and still comes back and responds.

I see both sides of the spectrum here, but since there is obviously two sides that have legitimate arguments, why try really hard to make your point...it's already been made!

[HRBAKER]

Some would say that it is proper etiquette to alert a seller who does not know what he has of what he has. You know, Do Unto Others. Our definition of etiquette is oft times defined by self interest, purely human.

Good points made on both sides of this issue. I agree with Leon we don't need a rule. I have no idea if 10,600 is a good or bad price. I am however happy that he didn't end the auction early in response to an offer trying to take advantage of his lack of information. That's just me.

[ullmandds]

I guess to me it's the ethical dilemna?! I have a very high moral/ethical standard...and I expect the same of others...which I know is ridiculous especially in this hobby and on the internet...but I still do! And I believe in fairness...and that hard work is rewarded.

If anything I should be glad the auction was outed as it reaffirmed the value of my f and m ruth! But being the sick f$ck that I am...fairness trumps money in my book!

[glchen]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

Just curious here, Gary...any reason you're taking this thread so personal? Peter seems offended as well...even thinks the thread is getting old and still comes back and responds.

I see both sides of the spectrum here, but since there is obviously two sides that have legitimate arguments, why try really hard to make your point...it's already been made!

Sorry, Mike, it's not personal. And I had already told David that I would refrain from posting any more in this thread. However, to me, at least, some posts seem so idiotic, I feel like I have to respond. I get it. One person's idiotic response is another person's common sense reply.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I think where you lose me is when you say if the person doesn't do the work, for any reson, they should not have a shot at the card. I say this because (keep in mind, 24 hour auction) somepeople work 8,10,12 hours a day-then, they come home and deal with wife and kids, etc- maybe don't have the time to scour pages of ebay etc. But, they work hard in life and would love to spend their hard earned money on this card in the 24 hour auction. I think that person should have as much of a chance to buy the card as the person sitting on ebay all day with the time to scour the pages....after all, ebay is open to everyone nationwide.

This argument makes no sense to me at all?!?! If someone works 10-12-whatever hours/day and then has to tend to their wife and/or kids...this is the life they have chosen. If one chooses to go to the gym for 4 hours after working every day and as a result doesn't take the time to scour ebay for deals on vintage bb cards...why the hell should they reap the rewards of someone who puts in the time? Makes absolutely no sense!

pete

Yeah you are right-they deserve NOTHING. To hell with them and the life they "chose".

And, what's "putting in time"? You assume it took hours and hours to find the card. What if the person found the card in 3 seconds of searching?

It's not an argument, by the way- I presented a hypothetical question and got an answer. I responded, no one is arguing.

Sincerely, Clayton

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Some would say that it is proper etiquette to alert a seller who does not know what he has of what he has. You know, Do Unto Others. Our definition of etiquette is oft times defined by self interest, purely human.

Good points made on both sides of this issue. I agree with Leon we don't need a rule. I have no idea if 10,600 is a good or bad price. I am however happy that he didn't end the auction early in response to an offer trying to take advantage of his lack of information. That's just me.

+1...you read my mind about etiquette. Although I don't believe it's our job to inform any certain seller about their auction, I believe in doing the right thing if I can help it.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I also don't understand some people's opinions on this matter. In my opinion...outing a vaguely advertised...24 hr ebay auction of a rare...high dollar ruth card is NOT comparable to someone "outing" a plank in one of the major auction houses where the auction may last for weeks...not even in the same ball park.

To me it's a matter of etiquette...and some people don't seem to know/care what this means?!

And this, you talk about "etiquette", morals, ethics- but you find it ok to constantly disrespect people who collect T206 cards. Is that the kind of "etiquette" you are referring to? Just wondering.

Sincerely, Clayton

[triwak]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

...the card says f and m on the bottom...had he googled babe ruth f and m he most likely would have found some info on this card...including recent sales prices.

Question: I could never find the "f and m" anywhere on this card. I actually was somewhat confused as to how everyone knew immediately what this was. I thought is was an Exhibit at first. Just curious?

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by triwak

Question: I could never find the "f and m" anywhere on this card. I actually was somewhat confused as to how everyone knew immediately what this was. I thought is was an Exhibit at first. Just curious?

Not all M101-6s have the F.M. designation. You can tell by the picture and the way the name of the player is written. When I saw the listing on here I immediately knew what it was.

[ullmandds]

i guess one other way to look at this is that some of you feel that the seller was entitled to full retail value for this card...even though he did not do due diligence in selling it.

If all transactions that occurred in this hobby occurred at full retail...there would be no hobby! Someone has to get a card/item for less money in order to resell it for a profit?

My ribbing t206 collectors is just that! I realize it's hard to detect inflection/tone on the internet...but I mean no harm.

[HRBAKER]

Not mine:

[ullmandds]

my bad...no f and m on the card...nonetheless a google search for babe ruth cf ny yankees would yield an image of a graded m101-6 ruth.

[teetwoohsix]

A hobby is supposed to be fun, and not so "cut throat". I guess that's why outing this auction doesn't seem like the ultimate sin to me. But, I understand the reasons why people are against it.

I try to keep in mind that we (or at least I) am specifically talking about this 24 hour auction- not a typical 7 day auction, where everyone does have a chance to take the time to search. Maybe this is where things are getting crossed.

Sincerely, Clayton

[Jlighter]

Heres another

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

i guess one other way to look at this is that some of you feel that the seller was entitled to full retail value for this card...even though he did not do due diligence in selling it.

If all transactions that occurred in this hobby occurred at full retail...there would be no hobby! Someone has to get a card/item for less money in order to resell it for a profit?

My ribbing t206 collectors is just that! I realize it's hard to detect inflection/tone on the internet...but I mean no harm.

That seems to me much less like a hobby and much more like a business.

[Bored5000]

To me, there really isn't any way of knowing how much the final price was impacted by posting the information on here. Sure, the price jumped initially when the auction was posted on here. But how many people were set to snipe the auction?

Way back on page on one or two, there was a poster that said he saw the auction before it was mentioned on here and wasn't going to let the card go cheap. I just don't believe a $10,000 card with "Babe Ruth" in the auction title is going to slip by the entire collecting community and go for a massive discount. Maybe if it was a high-dollar rarity of a more obscure player, but not Babe Ruth. I can imagine not many people search for "Slow Joe Doyle" or "Louis Lowdermilk" daily on eBay, but "Babe Ruth" is another story.

[Prof_Plum]

I'm fairly confident in saying that if all the auctions in which I bid were outed, I'd have both less money and fewer cards. Neither of which would please me.

The best way for me to compete against those with deeper pockets is to scan Ebay better than the next guy and to find the mislabeled/misspelled etc cards. The two cards I put in the February pick up thread were both obtained this way.