Some helpful suggestions for new collectors

[the 'stache]

I've been seeing some decisions made by newer collectors/members as of late-decisions that could end up costing them a lot of money. This concerns me greatly, because while I'm sure we've all been tempted by cards that turned out to be too good to be true, there is a wealth of knowledge among the collectors of Net 54, and these types of decisions need not ever be made. We can't get rid of the unscrupulous people that infect our hobby, as much as I'd like to. But, we can help educate new collectors on how to largely avoid these people.

So, what I'd like to do is to create a sort of living, breathing "help" topic, one that anybody can contribute to, in an effort to help our newest members avoid getting burned by bad decisions. There are people in this hobby, unfortunately, who will try to make a quick buck on those who are trusting, and perhaps a tad uneducated. It is a sad fact of life that wherever there is money to be made, a predatory element will come 'a running. These aren't real hobbyists. These people don't sit at home lovingly looking through their collections, recalling days spent at the ballpark with Dad. They don't think of the stories attached to cards passed down from one generation to the next. These people don't daydream about owning a '52 Mantle, or a '55 Clemente. They see the almighty dollar sign, and don't care one iota about the people they might be swindling out of their hard-earned money. Well, I feel that it is our responsibility to do all we can to help people who are new to the hobby. This is supposed to be a fun escape from the daily grind. For thirty minutes a day, an hour a day, or however long we all spend reading on Net 54, or working on our hobbies at home, this is supposed to be a safe place where we can get away from the negativity that far too often pries its way into our lives. And there has been a lot of talk here recently about shill bidding, and auction house principals involved in highly questionable activity. It's left a bad taste in a lot of mouths. Well, the more good, educated, discerning collectors, the better off it will be for all of us.

First of all, I do not claim to be an expert. I have collected baseball cards on and off for a long time. I spent some fifteen years collecting when I was younger, and I came back to the hobby about five years ago. The majority of longtime posters on Net 54 have far more knowledge than I do. But, I spent a great deal of time learning before putting my money on the line, so I hope that I can share some pearls of wisdom that will make the hobby safer for people just starting out. Because, nothing will ruin baseball card collecting forever like spending a chunk of change on a card you've always wanted, only to find out you've been duped. I want to do all I can to help prevent this from happening. When I worked as a stockbroker, my job was to not only help my investors trade, but to provide education at the same time-to give them the tools they needed to make sound decisions. As an ethical man, I took my my fiduciary responsibility very seriously. As a collector, I take the responsibility of helping my fellow enthusiasts any way I can. My inbox is always open should one of you have a question. If I can help, I will.

So, here then, are some suggestions I'd make to anybody starting out in our wonderful hobby. I encourage all the members of our forum to chip in anything they see fit. I will update these first few posts as needed in an effort to collate the information in a manner that is most helpful.


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I. The Starting Kit

One thing I would strongly recommend to any new collector is a "starter kit", of sorts. These items help collectors make sound decisions when buying cards, or examining cards when considering sending them in for grading. Obviously, you cannot first examine a card that you are buying from an online seller, but we'll get to them in a bit.

A starter kit shouldn't be expensive to put together. Some of these items you will already have. The others...well, think of it this way. You're willing to spend a good deal of money on baseball cards (within your own budget). Why would you not spend a small portion of that budget on the things that can help protect you when buying these cards?

I've assembled some of the items I use whenever I go to the card shop, or get a new card in the mail. I buy pre-war, vintage and modern cards, so I've included all the things I use on a regular basis. The first is a ruler. Self explanatory item. Many pre-war cards will have size variances, and that does not necessarily mean that the card you are holding with the perfect edges and corners is the product of some nefarious deed. That is determined by a card examination. But for vintage cards, and certainly modern cards, there should be very little variance, especially when you are dealing with current technology. Learn about the cards you are buying, what their standard dimensions are, and if said card(s) ever exhibit any variance in size. A 1956 Topps card will not have the same dimensions as a 1957 Topps card. This information is widely available on the net, and should be easy to find. Next up is a black light. Black lights are highly useful tools, and every collector should own one. Under a black light, a card that has been altered will be much easier to spot. Think about a 1971 Topps card, for example. The cards are notorious for chipping along their black borders. If a seller has taken a marker to darken the edges, the card might command a higher price, as it will have more eye appeal. This colorization will appear under the black light. So, too, will more involved alterations, like bleaching, or cards that have had corners rebuilt with added paper. Anything not native to the card will likely stand out upon closer inspection. Next up is a jeweler's loupe. I use a Bausch & Lomb 10X loupe, as well as a small magnifying glass (5X). The loupe will be your best friend as a collector, and at about $10 on Amazon, it's a no-brainer to get one. With it, you will be able to see conditional flaws that might lower a card's value, flaws that might not be as obvious to the naked eye. You can also use it to spot reprints, or flat out fakes. If I go to my card shop looking for a particular card, I will usually take a common of the same year along for comparative purposes. Then, I can compare things like paper grain and printing technology side by side. Sometimes, you will want a more powerful magnification (more on that later), but 95% of the time, a loupe will do wonders for you. I've also included an eyeglass wipe and a silica gel dehumidifier pack. The wipe I use when handling Bowman Chrome prospect auto cards, as they are notorious for collecting fingerprints. I wipe those, very carefully. If the wipe is clean, it will not scratch the chemical treatment on the Chrome card's surface. These are especially useful if sending Chrome cards in for grading. They can improve the surface grade. The silica gel pack is for my bank safe deposit box. Two of those can be purchased on Amazon for about $15. One of these is big enough to keep any humidity from affecting my cards. My bank keeps its vault climate controlled-but, I never take any chances. I change these out every few months, and it only takes a few hours of baking them in the oven to reset them. Plus, they contain no cobalt (II) chloride, which has been known to cause cancer.

[the 'stache]

II. Baseball Card Supplies

The next thing you want to put together after your starting kit is a collection of basic supplies you will need to store your cards safely. I've pictured what I use, but your mileage may vary. The company making the items you buy may differ, but the basic items themselves are pretty much a constant.

In the lower-left corner of the above picture, I've got two items I use on the majority of my cards: Ultra Pro "penny sleeves", and "top loaders". The two brands I see most often used are Ultra Pro and BCW. "Penny sleeves" are sheets of polypropylene that fit perfectly around the card. There are several different sizes, so make sure that the size you purchase will fit the cards you are collecting. These are acid-free, archival quality that will not interact with the paper or inks used in cards. They are typically considered inert. The "top loaders" are rigid plastic sleeves that the card + "penny sleeve" can slide down into. Together, these two items provide a good amount of protection to cards. They protect the surface from scratching, and any damage that might otherwise occur when handling a card. Corner and edge damage of any kind will lower a card's value. And the rigid top loaders help protect the card from bending. I take it a step further, and use Ultra Pro team bags (upper right). The top loaders slide nicely into these, and then the top can be bent over, and sealed shut with the included adhesive seal. I have boxes of cards stored in this fashion. My more expensive modern cards will usually go into hard cases, like Ultra Pro "one touches" (not pictured). These are hard cases that have a recessed area for one card to fit into, as well as recessed corners to prevent contact damage. They are held together at the top by a magnet. These I then place into Ultra Pro one touch bags (center). These have the same function as the team bags, and when sealed, they protect the one touches from being scratched, and prevent them from opening. It's an added level of protection. The one touches with gold magnets have UV protection, so cards and autographs are less likely to fade if exposed to sunlight. I never leave my cards out, though, so that's not an issue. If you are ever going to display cards, they should be protected by UV glass, and kept out of sunlight as much as possible. Finally, I have two different "card savers", sizes I and II. These are flexible sleeves that many prefer for card storage. By squeezing on the side, the saver opens at the top, allowing the card insertion. When released, the saver closes snugly on top of the card. These are preferred for shipping cards to grading companies, as they prevent the cards from sliding around inside the saver. They literally will not move at all. But the material used does not cause any scratching to the card surface. I prefer Cardboard Gold savers, but it's merely a preference developed from using them first. The Card Saver "I" are the larger of the two, and I use these to store a good portion of my vintage cards. The Card Saver "I" product I use to store my ungraded tobacco cards (ie T206) and gum cards (ie 1934 Goudeys). They have the same archival qualities.

Additionally, you will need some sort of box(es) to store your cards in. There are the standard cardboard boxes that will hold 930 standard-sized cards, all the way up to 5,000 count boxes. While there are, again, various companies that produce these, I go with BCW. These are great for storing sets of modern cards, or large amounts of commons.

For more valuable cards, I prefer to use chipboard boxes (see above). They provide more protection, and are really nice looking, certainly much more appealing than a cheap cardboard box. When looking through older threads, you may see a company called MJ Roop mentioned. They were, to my knowledge, one of the first companies to make these kinds of boxes, in either chipboard or wood. They went out of business a few years back, but since then, a few companies have started producing the same high-quality boxes. The ones I use are from A Box Factory. The chipboard boxes cost about $50 each, and I believe they will offer discounts if more than a few are purchased. They also offer the same boxes with wood construction. These would, obviously, be even more durable, and offer greater protection, but they cost more. If you are going to take cards to shows, that would be the way to go. If you are just looking for boxes to store your cards at home in an attractive manner, the chipboard should be sufficient. Another company that I've recently discovered is Liongoods. I have not used them, so I cannot comment as to the quality of their product, but they offer a wide variety of storage options. I am quite happy with my A Box Factory purchases, so I can recommend them. Perhaps other forum members that have used Liongoods could comment on their quality. Just as an aside, I have no connection to any of the companies I am referencing, nor am I receiving any compensation. I wanted to make that clear. I am just providing helpful information.

One other topic, one that has been discussed at length in different threads on Net 54, is the storage of high value cards. There are two basic schools of thought here. Keep those cards at home, and insure them, or put them in a bank vault for safekeeping. There are numerous kinds of safes, from the $100 varieties made by a company like SentrySafe or FirstAlert, all the way up to custom Jeweler's Safes that can cost several thousand dollars. These safes can offer a variety of features, like protection against fire and/or water damage, and any decision made to keep cards at home must be considered carefully. Many members of Net 54 combine a safe, and collector's insurance, allowing them to view their cards whenever they want. The other option is to keep these cards at a bank, in a safe deposit box. While this might be less costly, there are downsides, potentially. Obviously, one such consideration is how readily available the bank is. A bank is only open certain hours of the day, and it might not be close to home. If you work a 9 to 5 job, that bank might close before you can get there. Some collectors store their high value cards in the bank, and take high quality scans of said cards. These can be viewed any time. The scans can also be used for insurance purposes. Then, there is the size factor. My bank has different sizes of safe deposit boxes, but I could never store a large collection there. Use the forum search function, and you'll find extensive discussions about this topic.

[the 'stache]

III. Educational sources

Once you've assembled your starter kit, and your supplies, it's time to start learning about the cards you want to buy. You can, of course, do all these at the same time, but it's important to have the items you need before the cards start coming in.

There are a plethora of books, magazines and online articles to assist you in learning about the hobby, no matter what your focus will be. You might decide to collect cards from one era only, or, you might be like me, and collect from all three. "Pre-war cards" consist of cards produced starting in the Nineteenth Century all the way up until the beginning of World War II. "Vintage cards" are those produced starting after the beginning of World War II up until the year 1980. And modern cards encompass those produced from 1981 on. 1981 was a landmark year for the hobby, as Topps saw their virtual monopoly on baseball cards vanish with the reintroduction of Fleer cards, and the addition of the Donruss company. Then, in 1989, Upper Deck joined the hobby. These are general guidelines that will help you decide what publications you want to collect.

I've included several different books and magazines I've purchased in learning about the hobby. I was perhaps a tad cautious before beginning. I literally spent five or six months reading, and asking questions, before I started buying cards. In the upper left corner is The Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards by Lew Lipset. This was a combined issuance of 3 volumes he'd previously released. You can still find this occasionally on EBay. I think I spent $30 on mine. It's a veritable treasure trove of information for pre-war baseball cards. It covers, in great detail, cards produced before 1900, as well as tobacco and candy cards produced before the start of World War II. Lew covers all the sets released, as cataloged by Jefferson Burdick in his American Card Catalog. Mr. Burdick was the first person to sit down, and create an organizational system identifying all the different pre-WWII sets. Cards with an "N" prefix covered cards issued prior to 1900. "T" cards included the sets of cards which could be found in packs of tobacco. "F" cards were found in packages of food and ice cream. "D" cards were found with baked goods, including bread. "E" cards were found with caramels, "R" cards with gum, etc. The book includes background information, as well as checklists. It's an essential item for collectors of old cards, and infinitely fascinating.

The little white booklet in the picture is The Sport Americana T206 The Monster, by Bill Heitman. Bill Heitman was the first to call the T206 set "the Monster". It's nearly four decades old by now, but it's an essential read for those who collect the set. It breaks down the set by print run, and by back. The checklist has been expanded since 1980, but it's still one of the best resources for understanding how the set is constructed. It can still be found on EBay, occasionally, for $15-20.

I've also included the book Judging the Authenticity of Early Baseball Cards by David Cycleback. David is a member of Net 54, and a widely respected expert/scholar in art, artifact and photograph authentication. While the book relates specifically to pre-WWII baseball card production, the lessons learned are invaluable to collectors of all eras. He goes into the use of black light in spotting alterations, as well as comparing the printing techniques (ink), card stock and paper of different samples under high-power magnification (microscopy utilizing 50X to 100X power). More than even these specifics he provides, his book gets the collector thinking in the proper frame of mind. He teaches the hobbyist to be a discriminating buyer, introducing the importance of discerning between authentic, reprint, and fakes. I've included a link to his booklet on sale at Amazon.

Lastly, I've included examples of two different magazines, the first being The Vintage and Classic Baseball Collector (which is no longer being produced), and Old Cardboard Magazine, which is still in production, with new issues coming out once a year. The VCBC back issues are commonly sold on EBay. Old Cardboard can be purchased on their site. I have linked directly to their order page. I have a collection of about 20 issues between the two titles, and they are both outstanding. They're fun reads, and they're highly insightful.

In addition to these printed books and periodicals, there are a lot of great websites devoted to the collection, including Sports Collectors Digest. They also have their own publication. Many other vintage and pre-war sites can be found in the vintage links page on our site. Lastly, there may be no better resource for collectors than Net 54. Learn to use the search function on our forum. If you've got a question, then chances are it's already been asked here before. I use our search function and Google together, and have never had an issue finding what I'm needing. It's good etiquette to look first, and then ask if you're unable to find what you're looking for.

[the 'stache]

III. Tips For Getting Started

Once you have everything you need-the starter kit, the supplies to store your cards safely, and the information to familiarize yourself with the collecting niche you've decided upon, it's time to start buying cards.

I. The very first piece of advice I'd give to a new collector is to start small. Though that T206 Cobb, or 1953 Bowman Color Mickey Mantle might wow your socks off, those cards will cost quite a bit to acquire. And, if you're going to buy one of those cards, you really want to know what you're doing first. I referenced creating a "starter's kit" earlier, and provided a small list of items that every collector should have. I would also add baseball cards to that list. I've created a small collection of commons for all the years I am collecting, and whenever I buy a card from a particular set, I compare any card I get in to the common card. These commons won't be expensive. You don't even need a high quality common. In fact, it's probably better if the commons have a little bit of wear. I even purchase a few pretty beat up cards from each decade, ones exhibiting issues like water damage, creases and wrinkles, paper loss, edge and corner damage.

II. Get to know the cards you are buying. Say you've decided you want to collect 1953 Bowman Color cards. Great choice! Before you go buying a Stan Musial, a Mickey Mantle or a Pee Wee Reese, pick up one of those commons I referred to. You want to become familiar with the card stock used to produce your favorite set. Look at the common card under magnification. Learn to recognize how the edges of these cards look under your loupe. This section on the Net 54 website serves as an introduction to spotting alterations, forgeries and reprints (scroll down the page to see this). One of the biggest problems you will be faced with as a collector is trimming. Trimming is a form of alteration where a card with "soft" edges is sliced off, slightly, to create the appearance of a sharper edge (or corner), which, of course, would make the card more valuable. Take one of your commons, an x-acto knife, and a ruler, and cut along the edge. Look at the cut edge, and compare it to one that has not been cut. Examine the edges for signs of chipping, a natural byproduct of normal card production. While there are other things to be looking out for (ie bleaching, re-papering of cardboard loss, soaking, etc), trimming is one way an unscrupulous seller can try to pull a fast one on a buyer. A trimmed card immediately lowers the card value, though it might improve upon its visual appeal. If sent to a company like PSA, Beckett, or SGC, a card grader would recognize this alteration, and label the card as altered. Never assume that a card you've purchased is unaltered. It's your money, and a proactive collector will experience less heartache. By familiarizing yourself with the look, and the feel of the cards you are going to collect, you immediately reduce the likelihood that you're going to get taken for a ride. You can even do as I do, and "smell" cards when you get them (if they're not entombed in a graded card slab, of course). That's not a joke. A 40 or 50 year old card will have a different smell than a card that was produced a month or two ago. While printing technology has advanced quite a bit from 1953, that can also work for you. A reprinted card might look like the real thing at first glance, but if you are careful, and using all of your senses, you should be able to tell the difference. The smell, the feel, the appearance--something will just "feel" different. Just remember, once you've done your due diligence, it's okay to ask questions. You can examine something and still not be sure. It's always smart to ask for help, especially when you're going to spend a considerable amount of money on a single card for the first time. If you're not sure, start a topic on the correct forum (here for vintage cards, and the main forum for pre-war). If it's an auction you're unsure of, provide a link, and as much information as you can. If it's a card you're looking to buy in person, take a picture (or, even better, a scan) of the back and front of the card, preferably without any top loader, etc (if this is feasible). Reprints and forgeries will each have tell tale signs, and experienced collectors will know what to look for. By asking questions, you will learn from the knowledge and experience of veteran collectors. These gems you learn will help protect you. Knowledge is power, and the scam artists out there are counting on an uneducated buyer to make their money.

III. Buy from only trustworthy sources. So, you're looking to buy that killer 1957 Topps Roberto Clemente. You've been looking on EBay, and boom, there it is. You click on the link, and the card you see is beautiful. Do you click on the buy it now, and shoot off a few hundred bucks of Paypal to the seller?

No. God, I hope not. At least, not until you've done some real scrutinizing.

The first thing you should do is look at who you're buying from. If you're seeing a seller with the user name Somenewguy101 (5), you need to be on your guard. Is it possible they are a legitimate seller, and the card you are looking to buy is authentic? Of course. Even the most trustworthy sellers on EBay started out at one time, so a low feedback score is not indicative of a person's trustworthiness. Likewise, somebody with a 10,000 feedback score (and a 100% approval rating) is not guaranteed to be selling the real deal. Let me allude back to my investment experience. You've all heard of Bernie Madoff, correct? He was an investment advisor that swindled millions from his clients. Before his crooked ways were exposed, he had a good reputation, and wealthy investors trusted him with their money. Never assume. Don't let a 100% approval rating lull you into a false confidence. You need to be like a CSI, weighing all the evidence. You need to be looking at the EBay post (or wherever you are looking to buy) itself. Is this a picture that somebody pulled off the net, and slapped into their auction? Or, does the picture have their user name on EBay included with it? There's a site that does searches by image called Tineye. You provide the image URL (web address), and it scours the web for that same picture. If you're buying a card, and the identical picture is coming up thousands of times, then you have to consider if you're not looking at a reprint. Is the seller providing multiple, clear pictures of the card (and card slab, if it's graded), or is there one blurry picture of the card in one of those lucite card blocks of doom? Read the information included in the auction. Are they dealers? Or, did they "find this card in their grandfather's attic"? Use common sense. Look, too, at the seller's EBay history. Have they sold similar vintage baseball cards before? If not, that in and of itself does not mean they are up to no good. But if they sell like-valued cards, then it increases the likelihood that the card is authentic. All of this is important to read, and consider. If you have questions, or concerns, contact the seller! A legit seller will provide information, and additional pictures. A scam artist won't respond, or they'll come up with an excuse as to why they can't provide other pictures. And look over the pictures that are provided. If it's a PSA 8 you're buying, does the card's condition exhibit what you'd expect for the grade? As an example, here's a visual representation of how PSA grades their cards. This shows several different 1952 Topps Mickey Mantles, one at each different grade level from Gem Mint 10 all the way down to Poor 1. If it's a graded card, are there frosted borders to the slab? Is the slab damaged? Does the flip look...off? Is the typography used inconsistent with the font PSA has long-used? Is the spacing off between letters and numbers?

If after all of this, you're still not sure, ask for help on the forum.

The B/S/T (buy/sell/trade) on Net 54 is an excellent place to buy and sell cards. This is a community of hobbyists, and we do all we can to police the B/S/T, and the hobby itself. But you should always keep your guard up. Listen to the little voice in your head. If something doesn't feel right, ask for help, or don't buy. Unless you're hot for a one of a kind card (or an ultra rare issue), chances are there will be another example of the card you're looking for available very soon. A good collector never acts irrationally. Patience is a virtue.

This is a great hobby. But, as with any other investment, a certain amount of education is necessary to trade, buy and sell safely. Don't ever let yourself be pressured into doing something you're not comfortable with. Use your resources. In doing so, you'll avoid getting taken advantage of.

IV. Lastly, have fun! Remember why you love baseball, and collecting cards in the first place. The hobby can be a little intimidating in the early stages. There are some really valuable cards that change hands. Remember, this is something to do for your enjoyment. It's not a competition. Don't ever hesitate to ask for help when you have questions. Read the forum, and contribute. "Pay it forward" if you can. Once you've been collecting for a while, share the knowledge you've acquired, and help those who are just starting out. That's the kind of spirit this hobby needs more of.

If you have any questions, please feel free to message me. I check the forum at least every few days, and I'm happy to help.

Bill

[the 'stache]

One additional thought regarding graded cards. It is very important to maintain a healthy level of skepticism whenever buying cards, even those that have been graded, and "slabbed" by reputable companies like Professional Sports Authenticator (PSA), Beckett, and Sportscard Guarantee (SGC). Never assume that a card is authentic because somebody else tells you it is. There are people out there that try to make money off of unsuspecting collectors, using these graded card cases to further their scams.

This is what PSA's slab looks like without a card, or a "flip" (the printed portion at the very top of the slab which includes the name of the player, the year and company that has produced the card, the card number, and the grade.)



Placed against a black background, you can see what the plastic slab looks like. Upon inspection, you want to be on the lookout for abnormally "white" portions of the slab, which can be indicative of the slab "being popped". This is referred to as frosting. While a little bit of light frosting is common in the production of these slabs, more pronounced frosting is often the first sign that a slab has been tampered with. And when I mean tampered with, I mean opened to remove the original card, and replace it with a lesser quality card, or a fake. Though the slabs vary from one company to another, common practice is to "sonically weld" the top and bottom pieces together, forming a strong seam. These seams can be exploited, however. There are videos on Youtube you can look up to show how this is done. Basically, an x-acto blade, and a screwdriver head, weaken the seam, and pry it open. Besides the bright white frosting that is evident, you also want to test the strength of the slab itself. Holding the top portion of the slab (near the flip), and the lower portion, try to gently bend the slab. If there is any give, you want to immediately examine the card itself. Even if there is not any give, you still want to examine the flip along the seam, looking for signs that it's been cracked, and re-glued. Look for micro-fractures.

Keep in mind, too, that occasionally, the TPG (third-party graders) change their flips. They might alter how the information is layed out, or add additional information to the flip. If you are unsure about a flip, search the internet to find examples of old flips. Or, ask somebody on the forum to take a look at it.

Scammers try to steal from buyers with these graded cards in a few ways. One approach is to crack open a legitimately-graded card, so they can remove the card, and replace it with a card of lower quality. Say, for instance, the scammer has a 1957 Topps Mickey Mantle that PSA has graded an 8. They would pop this, and replace it with a 6, and sell it as the 8. The card would command the higher price an 8 would fetch on the open market. This is where the examination of the slab, the flip, and the card itself are important. Another approach scammers use is to replace the legitimate cards with reproductions, either reprints, or forgeries. Reprints will often have the word "reprint" included on the back of the card somewhere (but not always), and the cards will often exhibit some minor difference from the original. Be on the look out for alterations to the card backs where the word "reprint" would normally be found. In this example, a legitimate slab + flip are used to sell a card that is not authentic. Lastly, the other option crooks have is to use slabs and flips that have been created for the purpose of stealing from the consumer. These do not come from the legitimate TPGs. They are produced in other countries. The flips, too, will be faked. This is where a loupe is helpful. Examine the typography utilized on the flip, and compare it to an authentic example.

The mantra of "buy the card, not the holder" should ring in your head whenever you buy a graded card. If you are buying a card in person, examine the card itself, the slab and the flip. If you are buying a card online that has been graded, look over the pictures provided...carefully. Does the card entombed in plastic match the grade on the flip? Does the slab exhibit any examples of tampering? Does the flip, and any hologram used, look right? And as always, does the seller pass the sniff test?

I don't want new hobbyists to be frightened by the information I am sharing. This is a great hobby, and the vast majority of people who collect are in it for the right reason. You just need to always be on the defensive. You need to be proactive. Even if you are buying a valuable card from a trusted seller, still go through these steps. Because while the TPGs go to lengths to insure the safety of the public, card graders are human, and can make mistakes. Never assume that your seller's card is authentic. Sellers can be duped, too. They can buy cards they think are legitimate, and a careful scam artist might be able to fool even the most seasoned seller if they are doing considerable volume.

Establish good habits, and they will serve you well. When you buy cards online, know what kinds of protection your payment method(s) offer. Don't assume, ask! And be aware of what price the card you are looking to buy has been commanding. You can use VCP (vintagecardprices.com), or even look at EBay history for an idea. If somebody is selling a card that usually goes for $1,000 for $400 buy it now, something is amiss. The old mantra of "if it's too good to be true, it probably is" applies to our hobby, too.

[Vintagevault13]

Bill,

Great stuff. I know this took some time to put together. Definitely some invaluable info for the new collector. Love the idea for a running help thread. At the rate that technology is advancing, I am sure we will have an even greater need in the future to protect ourselves against the unscrupulous people that are unfortunately out there trying to make a quick profit.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[irv]

I haven't read all your posts yet, Stache, but I will definitely be coming back too!

Can't thank you enough for putting all this info together to help all us newbies or the uneducated.

Appreciate it very much!!

[ALR-bishop]

Great, now I have to go out and buy some more stuff

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Great, now I have to go out and buy some more stuff

I think this far into the game, you're safe, Al.

Thanks, guys.

If you new guys have questions you'd liked answered, especially things you think other newer collectors might not understand, please--fire away here. The first couple of posts will remain pretty much as they are, unless I add to them (which is always a possibility). But after that, the discussion can go anywhere. I could always use the last page I reserved as a list of questions, and I could direct link to the post where the answer is provided.

Just remember, there are no stupid questions. What might seem silly to you, at first, might end up helping somebody greatly down the road. So, don't hold back!

[pawpawdiv9]

Not to mention the many other grading companies out there besides PSA, SGC and Beckett.

[steve B]

I'd add that part of the starter kit should be a type set of sorts. One common from each set in the era you want to collect. And it doesn't need to be in really great condition, in fact it's probably best to include a few worn cards and at least one beater. None of these should be graded!

That way you can get the feel of the cards, and see how various problems look on that eras cards. Some are layered, others aren't.

One of the things I see constantly with fakes is that the faker tries to make the card look "old" but the old thicker cardboard of the 50's creases differently from a new bit of similar cardboard, and the layering will usually be different.

For example, a 50's card gouged on the front will show the brown cardboard behind the thin layer of the front. Many fakes are prints pasted to modern cardboard that's the wrong color. So a 50's card with a gouge showing white cardboard in the gouge is almost certainly fake. (This applies to prewar too a T206 with damage showing brown cardboard is fake as that cardboard was white all the way through. )


When I started everyone had stacks of 50's cards that were basically loose with maybe a rubber band keeping the stack together. So everyone back then got to handle a LOT of cards. That gives one a good idea when something seems "off"

Steve B

[jkray25]

Awesome info!!

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[egri]

Awesome info Bill, and thanks to everyone who has posted so far.

I'm interested in learning more about how to distinguish forged signatures from real ones. I think I have a pretty good grip on the bigger names that are frequently questioned here, but how do you go about authenticating the bench players and minor stars? Is there anything that is a particular giveaway that a signature is forged?

[KingFisk]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

(reserved)

Bill, this is awesome. I imagine this is going to be a great resource for years to come. Thanks for doing this.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by steve B

I'd add that part of the starter kit should be a type set of sorts. One common from each set in the era you want to collect. And it doesn't need to be in really great condition, in fact it's probably best to include a few worn cards and at least one beater. None of these should be graded!

That way you can get the feel of the cards, and see how various problems look on that eras cards. Some are layered, others aren't.

One of the things I see constantly with fakes is that the faker tries to make the card look "old" but the old thicker cardboard of the 50's creases differently from a new bit of similar cardboard, and the layering will usually be different.

For example, a 50's card gouged on the front will show the brown cardboard behind the thin layer of the front. Many fakes are prints pasted to modern cardboard that's the wrong color. So a 50's card with a gouge showing white cardboard in the gouge is almost certainly fake. (This applies to prewar too a T206 with damage showing brown cardboard is fake as that cardboard was white all the way through. )


When I started everyone had stacks of 50's cards that were basically loose with maybe a rubber band keeping the stack together. So everyone back then got to handle a LOT of cards. That gives one a good idea when something seems "off"

Steve B

Steve, I did address this very thing a little further down in the guide:

I. The very first piece of advice I'd give to a new collector is to start small. Though that T206 Cobb, or 1953 Bowman Color Mickey Mantle might wow your socks off, those cards will cost quite a bit to acquire. And, if you're going to buy one of those cards, you really want to know what you're doing first. I referenced creating "starter's kit" earlier, and provided a small list of items that every collector should have. I would also add baseball cards to that list. I've created a small collection of commons for all the years I am collecting, and whenever I buy a card from a particular set, I compare any card I get in to the common card. These commons won't be expensive. You don't even need a high quality common. In fact, it's probably better if the commons have a little bit of wear.

That's exactly how I started. And I agree, the more worn, the better. A little further in the same part of the post, I recommend that starters take an x-acto blade and a ruler, and trim part of the edge (on a worn card, obviously). This allows them to compare what a factory cut edge looks like, and how it differs from an altered edge.

Great thinking on your part. Learning how to spot alterations is more important than ever.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by egri

Awesome info Bill, and thanks to everyone who has posted so far.

I'm interested in learning more about how to distinguish forged signatures from real ones. I think I have a pretty good grip on the bigger names that are frequently questioned here, but how do you go about authenticating the bench players and minor stars? Is there anything that is a particular giveaway that a signature is forged?

Scott, I am by no means an expert on signatures. I know there are companies that authenticate cards/balls/flats, etc that have been signed, but they are not foolproof. Search on JSA (James Spence) and PSA-DNA certified. While they add their professional opinions, I do not believe that opinion offers any kind of guarantee, which is problematic, in my opinion. That's why, for the most part, I only buy signatures on cards that have been certified by the manufacturer, ie Bowman Chrome prospect autos. These cards are signed in the presence of a company official to guarantee their authenticity. A finite number of the cards exist, and they are unique to the signed variety.

There is a real science behind authenticating signatures. If you are looking to buy a particular autograph, you'd be well served to find an exemplar for that person, and compare the auto you want to the exemplar. The problem is that over time, a person's signature can change. So, that's not foolproof. And though the exemplar might match the auto you're looking at, there are elements that a forensic analyst who specializes in signature authentication will see that you or I would not. They will consider physical evidence (the "flow" and angle of the signature, pen pressure, idiosyncrasies specific to the person's signature, etc), as well as provenance. That's real important when buying am historic signature-provenance. How did the seller come to own that signature? If you have somebody selling a signature of, say, Babe Ruth, and they have a sales receipt from a major auction, and that auction shows that the signature came from the Ruth family, that, then, would be pretty much air-tight provenance that the signature was legitimate.

My recommendation would be to take this question to the posters in our autograph forum.

Autograph forum

I would be very leery of buying signatures from players if I didn't witness them personally. I realize that there are many who are no longer living, and collecting their autographs would be a great addition to a collection. Just be very careful. I'm hoping the people who do this sort of thing on a regular basis will be able to give you some helpful advice on how to proceed.

Good luck!

[KCRfan1]

Valuable information for someone new to the hobby and great reminders for us who have been collecting for a while.

Thank you Bill!

Well thought out and explained.

[invest]

Thank you for posting!! I wish I would have had this info when I started collecting!!

Very valuable and all in one place

[egri]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Scott, I am by no means an expert on signatures. I know there are companies that authenticate cards/balls/flats, etc that have been signed, but they are not foolproof. Search on JSA (James Spence) and PSA-DNA certified. While they add their professional opinions, I do not believe that opinion offers any kind of guarantee, which is problematic, in my opinion. That's why, for the most part, I only buy signatures on cards that have been certified by the manufacturer, ie Bowman Chrome prospect autos. These cards are signed in the presence of a company official to guarantee their authenticity. A finite number of the cards exist, and they are unique to the signed variety.

There is a real science behind authenticating signatures. If you are looking to buy a particular autograph, you'd be well served to find an exemplar for that person, and compare the auto you want to the exemplar. The problem is that over time, a person's signature can change. So, that's not foolproof. And though the exemplar might match the auto you're looking at, there are elements that a forensic analyst who specializes in signature authentication will see that you or I would not. They will consider physical evidence (the "flow" and angle of the signature, pen pressure, idiosyncrasies specific to the person's signature, etc), as well as provenance. That's real important when buying am historic signature-provenance. How did the seller come to own that signature? If you have somebody selling a signature of, say, Babe Ruth, and they have a sales receipt from a major auction, and that auction shows that the signature came from the Ruth family, that, then, would be pretty much air-tight provenance that the signature was legitimate.

My recommendation would be to take this question to the posters in our autograph forum.

Autograph forum

I would be very leery of buying signatures from players if I didn't witness them personally. I realize that there are many who are no longer living, and collecting their autographs would be a great addition to a collection. Just be very careful. I'm hoping the people who do this sort of thing on a regular basis will be able to give you some helpful advice on how to proceed.

Good luck!

Thank you for the response Bill; it is very helpful. There is a card I'm looking at buying for my project that I will probably post over on the autograph forum for opinions. I think it is good, but I've been wrong before.


Thanks again. I wish I'd had the good sense to ask for help more often when I was starting out. It would have saved me a lot of grief.

[the 'stache]

You're welcome.

One more piece of advice-if you do end up buying, make sure to have a rock solid contingency plan in place, in case you, the members of our forum, or even an expert, determine the signature has been forged. I would never pay for a high value collectible with cash. I'll reference a discussion Bob E. had earlier on our forum. The short of it is that he was sold a Mickey Mantle (graded) where the slab had been popped and resealed. The card was authentic, but was apparently doctored.

The important thing to take from the discussion is that he made the purchase through American Express, and once he had concrete proof that fraud existed (sending the card in to PSA for a reslab), Amex covered what would have been a loss. I'd have to go back and review the current guidelines for purchasing through Paypal, but I think the same (or a similar) policy holds, provided that you bought the card as a good/service. I know that some members of our forum feel comfortable occasionally sending Paypal as friends & family, as it saves on fees. I trust the members of our forum, and consider many of them friends. But when I buy anything, be it a movie, or a $500 baseball card, if I am using Paypal, I do it via goods and services. I pay extra to cover the fees, so the seller receives the whole amount they are expecting. It's smart business. Communicate with the seller ahead of time that you want to use Paypal, and that you'll do goods & service, but send extra so they don't receive the full amount. I use The fee calculator to tell me how much to send.

Let us know here what you ultimately decide, and, if anything, what you learn about the signature.

Originally Posted by egri

Thank you for the response Bill; it is very helpful. There is a card I'm looking at buying for my project that I will probably post over on the autograph forum for opinions. I think it is good, but I've been wrong before.


Thanks again. I wish I'd had the good sense to ask for help more often when I was starting out. It would have saved me a lot of grief.

[the 'stache]

I greatly appreciate the thank yous, and feedback thus far. Just know that if I don't respond specifically to a post made from this point forward, it's not because I'm missing what you've said. I see them.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

I greatly appreciate the thank yous, and feedback thus far. Just know that if I don't respond specifically to a post made from this point forward, it's not because I'm missing what you've said. I see them.

You are the MAN! I have just purchased:

1. Bausch & Lomg 10X Loupe
2. Magnifying Glass
3.Encyclopedia Of Baseball Cards
4.Judging the Authenticity of Early Baseball Cards
5. Black Light

Now Im gonna work on buying some more commons. I LOVE THIS HOOBBBY!

[steve B]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Steve, I did address this very thing a little further down in the guide:



That's exactly how I started. And I agree, the more worn, the better. A little further in the same part of the post, I recommend that starters take an x-acto blade and a ruler, and trim part of the edge (on a worn card, obviously). This allows them to compare what a factory cut edge looks like, and how it differs from an altered edge.

Great thinking on your part. Learning how to spot alterations is more important than ever.

DOH! I'll have to reread everything. It's been that sort of week Not thinking well with the cold I've got and should have known it was coming when I forgot to eat the breakfast sandwich I bought Friday.

My cluelessness aside, I think it's an important enough idea to put out there twice.

I like the idea of trimming beaters to see the difference between edges. Even most G-Vg cards still show the proper factory edge.

Steve B

[jchcollins]

Incredible info. Thanks!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[egri]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Let us know here what you ultimately decide, and, if anything, what you learn about the signature.

I won the card this afternoon. With shipping it was only $30.95, and I paid with AmEx so all good on that end. I posted it in the autograph forum asking for opinions, and one guy had a list of five points that he said pointed to it being authentic (creased card, poor pen, common player, personalized, smeared) so I'm very confident that it's real.

With regards to that particular signature, it is of Cardinals outfielder Harry "P-Nuts" Lowrey. I noticed Lowrey either signed autographs as ' "P-Nuts" Lowrey' or "To (fans name) (Best wishes/regards/something similar) Harry "P-Nuts" Lowrey". My guess is the former were obtained in person; the latter TTM, when Lowrey would have had the fan's name in front of him and time to sit down and sign those extra words. In terms of flow and length, it matched up well with the ones on SCN.

[Exhibitman]

Nice idea, 'stache. I would add: EDUCATION!!!!!

Did I stress that enough?

Not just knowing the cards but knowing the market for them. Rare may = obscure or valuable. Just depends.

Humility is another. If anyone thinks they can just jump in and make big lucrative deals I want some of what you are smoking. There are people here who've been doing this for decades and they will confirm that big deals are rare and not on eBay or Craig's list.

I've been a collector and dealer since I was twelve back in the last century and I learn new stuff about cards all the time. The knowledge you acquire over time and with experience enables you to assess a new (to you) card. I recently bought a set of 19th century nonsport cards I'd never seen before. No idea who made them. But I could see after decades of analyzing cards that they were vintage engravings. I flipped the set for nearly 20x what it cost me. My point being that although I'd never seen those cards before I have handled a lot of 19th and early 20th century cards and engravings so I was able to assess the set on the spot.

One more tool to have: your smart phone. I routinely search for cards and prices at shows. It has saved me a lot of money to be able to show a dealer what the card is going for on eBay. Or to confirm for myself what an item looks like and that it is a screaming deal. Case in point: there was a card I literally took off my want list before the last National because one had sold at auction for so much more than I wanted to pay. I found one at the show, same condition, for 40% less. I was able to confirm my recollection of the price via VCP on the spot and picked it up. When it comes to cards Orwell was wrong: ignorance is not bliss.

[Jcfowler6]

1. Take the card out of the sleeve and examine it before buying it.
2. Be careful who you share your collection with.

Two things that I did wrong early on.

Have fun!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nat]

Thanks for putting this together!

One thing that would be really useful would be information about traits of various sets and traits of common reprints or fakes. For example, 33 Goudey cards should be completely opaque when held up to a bright light - nothing gets through them. And, for another example, cracker jack reprints often have a sharper difference between player jersey color and the card border than originals do, and will sometimes have the words "Cracker Jack" very close to or even cut off by the border. This wouldn't replace getting to know a set yourself, but it would be some guidance. If someone who was an expert on set X posted what they know about it, and an expert on set Y posted about that one, this wouldn't be too hard to set up.

[Mark70Z]

Bill,

This is great information for not only a new collector, but someone who's been collecting for a while. Thanks so much for taking your time and giving us some great advice; much appreciated.

[Leon]

A few weeks ago I was at a local show. I saw a dealer who I now well and he had 2 T206s and a 1935 Ruth 4 in 1. The Ruth was raw and in a screwdown holder. It had a huge stain all across the back of the card. I asked the dealer if he had taken the card out of the holder and he said no he had only gotten it a day ago. The stain on the back would have made it a nice front but very poor back card, and it would be relegated to a 1 holder. We made the deal for all 3 cards. When I got home, a few days later, I took the Ruth out of the holder and there was no stain at all on the card. It was all on the holder. I think it will grade a 3+ and maybe a 4. I told him about it at another show yesterday (Klein's local show) and we both laughed. He still made money and now I will too, if I sell it.

Originally Posted by Jcfowler6

1. Take the card out of the sleeve and examine it before buying it.
2. Be careful who you share your collection with.

Two things that I did wrong early on.

Have fun!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DaClyde]

For an absolute beginner, on the subject of autographs, I would also recommend someone learn to tell real autographs from facsimile autographs that are simply printed as part of the card.

--Learn which sets already have facsimile autos on them. Pay special attention to those team-issued photos that might have a blue facsimile signature on a black & white photo...those seem to trip up a lot of sellers.

--Find some resources for knowing what various players autographs look like (Google images at the very least).

--Be able to tell the difference between an real autographed baseball and one of those team-issued printed facsimile auto baseballs (that have all the signatures nicely lined up, all in black, all the same relative size).