Let's welcome Charlie Barokas to the Billion Dollar Fraud!

[Fuddjcal]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1348201

Let's all give this jackass a nice warm welcome to PSA's Cavalcade of Stars!!!

[Exhibitman]

Is there going to be a card set?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Is there going to be a card set?

probably a 7 series, 700+ card set

I just want the entire set in PSA 10's. I will wait for 5 months like an ignoramus until it POPS!

[samosa4u]

I think it's great what BODA has done, but don't these guys have anything better to do than to just sit there examining COMMONS all day long? I seriously don't give two sh*ts about Billy Cox and Gene Ronzani.

I want to see something BIG, man! Let's see some trimmed WATERFRONT cards, guys! Show the world some trimmed Mantles, Mays, Robinsons, Ruths, Gehrigs, Cobbs, Clementes, Aarons, etc.

[Republicaninmass]

Happened to see one card in the last page was like a 19k gainer.

[Johnny630]

Johnny Unitas this broke my heart!!!

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=254

Registry is False

Pop Report is False

MarketPlace is False and Highly Manipulated

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I think it's great what BODA has done, but don't these guys have anything better to do than to just sit there examining COMMONS all day long? I seriously don't give two sh*ts about Billy Cox and Gene Ronzani.

I want to see something BIG, man! Let's see some trimmed WATERFRONT cards, guys! Show the world some trimmed Mantles, Mays, Robinsons, Ruths, Gehrigs, Cobbs, Clementes, Aarons, etc.

Have you not been paying attention? The number of five figure cards is staggering. And it's just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Trimmers are going to Target lower value cards because "working on" a card already worth four figures has too much downside. But they are out there if you have been paying attention.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Johnny Unitas this broke my heart!!!

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=254

Registry is False

Pop Report is False

MarketPlace is False and Highly Manipulated

This is the sad thing. A NM card is special. Now it is ruined.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

Trimmers are going to Target lower value cards because "working on" a card already worth four figures has too much downside.

Yeah, this is what I figured. Almost every card that has been outed by BODA is a common. It's definitely a lot more difficult to trim a waterfront card and get away with it. For example, if you trim a Goudey Ruth, then it's definitely going to get measured and looked at by three or four different graders.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Yeah, this is what I figured. Almost every card that has been outed by BODA is a common. It's definitely a lot more difficult to trim a waterfront card and get away with it. For example, if you trim a Goudey Ruth, then it's definitely going to get measured and looked at by three or four different graders.

Ya right!

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by rats60

This is the sad thing. A NM card is special. Now it is ruined.

It will be cracked.....we are back to square one....a fake Opinion Giving Company Could Very Well Slab Again for Some New Favorite Invitational Customer

Registry is Fake

Pop Report is Fake

We know they need us more then we need them our volume has never been higher keep quiet the suckers aren’t going to stop sending us cards
It’s gold Jerry Gold

[Republicaninmass]

A billion is a thousand million. I think we are a little far from that.

Nothing like sensationalism

[Phil68]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Johnny Unitas this broke my heart!!!

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=254

Registry is False

Pop Report is False

MarketPlace is False and Highly Manipulated

With you, Johnny. The Unitas was a gorgeous card just as it was. SMDH

[Phil68]

This whole thing saddens me. Charlie is a photo fanatic, like myself. Spectacular collector. SUCH a nice guy.
Integrity is a very simple thing; it really is. Compromising it becomes a habit for some people, I guess. I don't want to believe this but the evidence is certainly strong. This is the first time this thing has really sunk in. Damned shame.

[Phil68]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1348201

Let's all give this jackass a nice warm welcome to PSA's Cavalcade of Stars!!!

Chuck,
I appreciate your humor. You made me laugh at something that really bums me out. We have to laugh. Meanwhile, I guess the take-away is "don't stop at the holder--LOOK at the card really closely. The holder is only the first step and nowhere near foolproof."

[trambo]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

A billion is a thousand million. I think we are a little far from that.

Nothing like sensationalism

No truer words have been spoken! Seems that the mantra of the OP is "billion dollar fraud."

Saying it hundreds of times doesn't make it so. Appreciate there's some big issues but i'd agree it's not a billion.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I seriously don't give two sh*ts about Billy Cox

Maybe you should try getting to know me before putting your line in the sand.

[perezfan]

Might not be a billion (yet).

But what’s been exposed is merely the tip of the iceberg. I wouldn’t be surprised if that number becomes fact after a couple more years.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Might not be a billion (yet).

But what’s been exposed is merely the tip of the iceberg. I wouldn’t be surprised if that number becomes fact after a couple more years.

Would you take the over/under it's a billion?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Would you take the over/under it's a billion?

I would 100% take the over.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I would 100% take the over.

Didnt they try adding on BO and didnt get to 1 million?

I bet there's a Brazilian trimmed cards

(Pele)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Didnt they try adding on BO and didnt get to 1 million?

I bet there's a Brazilian trimmed cards

(Pele)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I have no idea if they tried that on BO. I really don't watch it that close.

Isn't there a PSA 8 that is several million by itself?

Even if they got to $500K on blowout do you think they have uncovered even 1/2000th of the dollar amount of ALL altered cards, I don't. I would think with all the altered cards out there they would be lucky to have uncovered that percentage so far.

Just my silly honest opinion.

[jmarascojr]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I think it's great what BODA has done, but don't these guys have anything better to do than to just sit there examining COMMONS all day long? I seriously don't give two sh*ts about Billy Cox and Gene Ronzani.

I want to see something BIG, man! Let's see some trimmed WATERFRONT cards, guys! Show the world some trimmed Mantles, Mays, Robinsons, Ruths, Gehrigs, Cobbs, Clementes, Aarons, etc.

You should really take a look at the number of threads over on BO, specifically in the baseball section.... They have outted cards connected to a majority of HOFers you have listed above...

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Didnt they try adding on BO and didnt get to 1 million?

I bet there's a Brazilian trimmed cards

(Pele)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

They outted a couple Pele cards in the last couple of days....

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by jmarascojr

You should really take a look at the number of threads over on BO, specifically in the baseball section.... They have outted cards connected to a majority of HOFers you have listed above...
[/B]

A 1965 Topps Koufax is not a waterfront card and nor is a 1968 Willie Mays card.

If you don't know what a waterfront card is, then search some past threads on this site where collectors discuss them.

The only waterfront card I remember seeing that was trimmed was a 1958 Topps Bobby Hull rookie. I remember the 1952 Topps Mantle as well, but I don't believe that one was trimmed. I think the corners got pressed down or something like that. And then there was that Cracker Jack Joe Jackson which was soaked - that was a bad one too. Otherwise, I have no interest in reading through thousands of pages discussing crappy cards.

[buymycards]

I have been collecting for a long time and I have never heard the term "waterfront" in regard to sports cards.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by buymycards

I have been collecting for a long time and I have never heard the term "waterfront" in regard to sports cards.

I have mainly heard that term from the "no lawsuit" gentleman.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Otherwise, I have no interest in reading through thousands of pages discussing crappy cards.

Why do they have to cater to your needs? Superinflated ego?

[todeen]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

A 1965 Topps Koufax is not a waterfront card and nor is a 1968 Willie Mays card.

If you don't know what a waterfront card is, then search some past threads on this site where collectors discuss them.

The only waterfront card I remember seeing that was trimmed was a 1958 Topps Bobby Hull rookie. I remember the 1952 Topps Mantle as well, but I don't believe that one was trimmed. I think the corners got pressed down or something like that. And then there was that Cracker Jack Joe Jackson which was soaked - that was a bad one too. Otherwise, I have no interest in reading through thousands of pages discussing crappy cards.

Isn't the T206 Wagner Gretzky card altered? It was altered in the 1980s, and slabbed in the 1990s. And about a month ago, I believe Blowout outed a Babe Ruth Goudey card, altered by the former football player.

If I have to take over/under on $1 Billion of fraud, I am taking over. You have to consider that the fraud is running at almost 30 years deep since PSA claimed the Wagner was an 8 NM-MT. How many of these altered cards, even altered commons, from the 1980s, have been sold, resold, resold, resold, resold.....

[ctownboy]

Hello,

1) I absolutely despise the term "waterfront card".

2) If PSA is in on the scam or if they are just incompetent, wouldn't you have to also look at the company stock price in this matter? Whatever is going on and however it is happening, I would think the stock price of the company is much higher now than it otherwise would be if people knew what was going on. If that is true then I would think you would have to add in the difference in stock price which would be part of the total cost of the fraud people are claiming.

David

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I think it's great what BODA has done, but don't these guys have anything better to do than to just sit there examining COMMONS all day long? I seriously don't give two sh*ts about Billy Cox and Gene Ronzani.

I want to see something BIG, man! Let's see some trimmed WATERFRONT cards, guys! Show the world some trimmed Mantles, Mays, Robinsons, Ruths, Gehrigs, Cobbs, Clementes, Aarons, etc.

What about the Johnny Unitas they make 18K on. Or the Mick "Ten" glehoff for 600.

That's the beauty of the gig. make 700 on some no name and move on. It's all in the POP my friend, All in the POP

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

A 1965 Topps Koufax is not a waterfront card and nor is a 1968 Willie Mays card.

If you don't know what a waterfront card is, then search some past threads on this site where collectors discuss them.

The only waterfront card I remember seeing that was trimmed was a 1958 Topps Bobby Hull rookie. I remember the 1952 Topps Mantle as well, but I don't believe that one was trimmed. I think the corners got pressed down or something like that. And then there was that Cracker Jack Joe Jackson which was soaked - that was a bad one too. Otherwise, I have no interest in reading through thousands of pages discussing crappy cards.

This entire card selling business thing is HOME ON THE "WATERFRONT".

It's easily a billion, but is it multi-billion dollar scheme? Some would argue no. It's just a billion dollar fraud, only. So keep on submitting while they sit on their hands over there at your favorite Pop store. While they continue to shear you like a baby lamb.

[btcarfagno]

Is the Namath rookie a "waterfront" card? The one they uncovered was like. $50k fraud in itself I believe.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by todeen

And about a month ago, I believe Blowout outed a Babe Ruth Goudey card, altered by the former football player.

Post it here. The only Ruth I ever recall seeing over there was that Look 'N See card.

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

So keep on submitting while they sit on their hands over there at your favorite Pop store. While they continue to shear you like a baby lamb.

Dude, your posts are funny, but if you don't collect sports cards anymore, then it's time to move on.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Post it here. The only Ruth I ever recall seeing over there was that Look 'N See card.

I had to look it up, but I was correct. Evan Mathis bought it altered, resubmitted, and turned it into a VG-EX 4.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...light=trimming

[todeen]

Evan Mathis also bought a Michael Jordan RC, as a 7, and then resubmitted - or altered it - and turned it into a 9. I would call that a waterfront card.

[midmo]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I want to see something BIG, man! Let's see some trimmed WATERFRONT cards, guys! Show the world some trimmed Mantles, Mays, Robinsons, Ruths, Gehrigs, Cobbs, Clementes, Aarons, etc.

There are tons of them. I just did a quick browse of one of the blowout threads...

1909 E09-1 Cobb - $3,633 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5611

1909 T206 Cobb - $7,709 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=4373

1909 T206 Dahlen - $2,240 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=6197

1909 T206 Street - $4,714 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=6209

1909 T206 Walter Johnson - $9,190 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=4737

1909 E90 Joe Jackson - $1,800 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2456

1909 E95 Cobb - $1,685 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5305

1911 M116 Wagner - $1,561 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5456

1914 Cracker Jack Ty Cobb - $8,350 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5354

1915 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson- $4,340 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5439

1921 Exhibit Ruth - $2,839 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5282

1933 Goudey Gehrig - $2,238 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5250

1933 Goudey Ruth - $936 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=4551

1938 Goudey DiMaggio - $945 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1949

1939 Playball Ted Williams - $1,171 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=4933

1948 Leaf Musial - $5,409 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=926

1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson - $8,705 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=4123

1951 Bowman Mantle - $4,436 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2287

1951 Bowman Mays - $2,456 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2107

1951 Bowman Mays - $64,140 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5934

1952 Bowman Musial - $25,300 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2626

1952 Topps Campanella - $5,028 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2535

1952 Topps Mantle - $5,567
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2333

1954 Topps Aaron - $137,030 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5992

1954 Topps Kaline - $2,951 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5643

1955 Topps Clemente - $6,694 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2342

1957 Topps Clemente - $4,114 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5683

1957 Topps Mantle - $5,119 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=4608

1957 Topps Yankees Power Hitters - $2,665 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=6068

1957 Topps Yankees team - $2,918 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=6077

1958 Topps Clemente - $38,378 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5907

1958 Topps Bobby Hull - $60,000 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5576

1958 Topps Mantle - $4,775 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5585

1959 Topps Unitas - $17,993 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=6332

1960 Bell Brand Koufax - $2,800 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=6273

1961 Topps Jerry West - $3,845 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2327

1961-62 Philadelphia Wilt Chamberlain - $4,844 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2574

1965 Topps Carlton - $1,655 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=6195

1965 Topps Namath - $4,224 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=6185

1965 Topps Namath - $252,000 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5739

1968 Topps Ryan - $1,800 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=4732

1969 Topps Alcindor - $13,926 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=6044

1969 Topps Bench - $11,091 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=6147

1969 Topps Mantle white letters - $18,386 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=5653

1969 Topps Ryan - $1,627 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=6192

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Didnt they try adding on BO and didnt get to 1 million?

They cleared a million easily with just the PWCC thread.

[Republicaninmass]

One billion

Not 10 million

Not 100 million

That's 1000 million

[trambo]

I would imagine if you grabbed all of the trimmed cards from the inception of the hobby to today you may get a billion dollars in value changes. I would also imagine that if you put it to the current situation that you would get far, far less than a billion of improved value. As I said yesterday, just because people keep saying it doesn't make it so. A billion is a bunch. This isn't a billion. Don't get me wrong, it's bad when people cheat but a billion...no way.

I've also been wondering what people's thoughts are regarding the % of cards graded that are actually tainted in some way. I would guess that number to be pretty low but am curious if anyone else had a thought. I'm thinking < 1% of cards graded. No data to support it but it's just my hunch.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by trambo

I would imagine if you grabbed all of the trimmed cards from the inception of the hobby to today you may get a billion dollars in value changes. I would also imagine that if you put it to the current situation that you would get far, far less than a billion of improved value. As I said yesterday, just because people keep saying it doesn't make it so. A billion is a bunch. This isn't a billion. Don't get me wrong, it's bad when people cheat but a billion...no way.

I've also been wondering what people's thoughts are regarding the % of cards graded that are actually tainted in some way. I would guess that number to be pretty low but am curious if anyone else had a thought. I'm thinking < 1% of cards graded. No data to support it but it's just my hunch.

I believe it way way more they %1 of the total population of graded cards that are altered in some way, WAY MORE.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I believe it way way more they %1 of the total population of graded cards that are altered in some way, WAY MORE.

The big major issue to me is so far the Buyers and Auction Houses/Major
Sellers Do Not Care if a card is altered or whom gives them the card to consign its all about if it’s Slabbed By PSA they could care less altered or not. Look at the stupid Numbers things are selling for on Pwcc Mile High and Heritage unless they’re all manipulated bids/sales......Very Will Could Be...One Last Manufactured Run to Pump and Dump their inventories before the Crash......idk it’s trash....makes me sick

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

If PSA is in on the scam or if they are just incompetent, wouldn't you have to also look at the company stock price in this matter? Whatever is going on and however it is happening, I would think the stock price of the company is much higher now than it otherwise would be if people knew what was going on. If that is true then I would think you would have to add in the difference in stock price which would be part of the total cost of the fraud people are claiming.

Let me qualify by saying that I do not understand the stock market well and I have not owned a single share of stock in a publicly traded company for over 10 years (including in a 401k, which I do not have).

In regards to PSA's stock price, I think several things are going on: First, I think the stock market is just like every other "vehicle" out there, in that people do not want to lose money. The world today reminds me very much of 2007. I do not understand why/how the stock market keeps going up, and I fear what is around the corner. People will do all they can to keep the good times rolling, until the bottom falls out. And, like with cards (or anything else that people are significantly invested in), shareholders in PSA want their stock to keep going up; even if that includes blatantly disregarding bad facts and warning signs. So I think there may be some convenient ignorance.

Second, I think there may be actual ignorance. From what I read, PSA has been doing a very good job of censoring and deflecting. They seem to be keeping damage to a minimum for now, hoping this all passes and doubling down on the faulty plan. Thus, I think fewer people know whats going on than we think. And, isnt that what happened to Enron? The stock was a dynamo until one day bad news came out and it sank like a Led Zeppelin? (I am pretty sure thats how they got their name).

So, I think many people dont know whats going, and most that do know whats going on, either dont care or pretend it does not exist.

Third, I think PSA is a fairly thinly traded stock, and I bet the larger stockholders have been somewhat (albeit legally) manipulating the price by either not selling or buying. The value of the stock should not fluctuate too much unless a few major movers, make moves. And perhaps the wise move for a major stockholder of PSA is either to buy, or certainly not sell.

I have come to believe that PSA is both incompetent, and on some level, 100% a part of this, and I would like to see them take a massive hit (and some officers go to country club jail); I do think they get it right more often than not, and I still want my cards in a slab (PSA or SGC), but I do think there is a very dirty thing going on in California. I think that as long as people keep at it, and noise is being made, the truth will catch up to PSA, and that truth will be reflected in the stock price (like Enron).

For this reason, it is crucial that BODA keep exposing all the altered cards, not just the "waterfront" ones, and why it is crucial that us message board(ers) dont disparage those calling out the card doctors and the TPGs that give them wings. The 1914 CJ Jacksons make the headlines, but the thousands of altered commons are what shows the pattern and proves the crime/scheme beyond any doubt.

[Republicaninmass]

I'm not trying to lessen the extent of the fraud. When people make outlandish claims, it actually LESSENS the credibility surrounding the claim. Albeit from the resident pedestrian poster.

[swarmee]

My personal guess is that between 10-20% of PSA graded cards are altered without detection. Looks like David Thorn and Evan Mathis were able to trim uncut sheets and get them slabbed by PSA as originally cut in the 1960s/70s. Again, some of these card doctors have been slabbing a 1000+ cards a year for 10 years each. 10x10x1,000 = 100,000 cards just from these guys. And we're not even talking about all the bleaching, erasures, pressing, etc that isn't as detectable from images without before and after pictures.

Again, it's not like all these card alterers were only submitting five cards at a time. Often, the submissions are 100 cards long with only 3 being outed as trimmed. If you want to believe that the other 97% are clean until given visible evidence, you can. I don't live in Fantasyland.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by rats60

This is the sad thing. A NM card is special. Now it is ruined.

An EX tobacco card used to be the prize of a collection.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

In regards to PSA's stock price, I think several things are going on: First, I think the stock market is just like every other "vehicle" out there, in that people do not want to lose money.

Solid post; the other thing that seemed to goose the stock price was that last year it was kind of floating in no-man's land. Then, right at the beginning of the scandal with PWCC, the stock was finally big enough in market cap to get listed in the top 2000 (or whatever) stocks on its exchange. Therefore, those who invest based on market buckets for diversification and who invest in this exchange bought lots of shares to match the Top 2000. Therefore, there was some increase in the stock price just because the stock price had increased over some arbitrary line where more investors needed the stock.
They weren't necessarily investing in CU/PSA; they were investing in the stock itself. An odd corollary to the whole buy the card/not the flip discussion.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I think it's great what BODA has done, but don't these guys have anything better to do than to just sit there examining COMMONS all day long? I seriously don't give two sh*ts about Billy Cox and Gene Ronzani.

I want to see something BIG, man! Let's see some trimmed WATERFRONT cards, guys! Show the world some trimmed Mantles, Mays, Robinsons, Ruths, Gehrigs, Cobbs, Clementes, Aarons, etc.

funny 'WATERFRONT' is my lingo on this forum for years..

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Solid post; the other thing that seemed to goose the stock price was that last year it was kind of floating in no-man's land. Then, right at the beginning of the scandal with PWCC, the stock was finally big enough in market cap to get listed in the top 2000 (or whatever) stocks on its exchange. Therefore, those who invest based on market buckets for diversification and who invest in this exchange bought lots of shares to match the Top 2000. Therefore, there was some increase in the stock price just because the stock price had increased over some arbitrary line where more investors needed the stock.
They weren't necessarily investing in CU/PSA; they were investing in the stock itself. An odd corollary to the whole buy the card/not the flip discussion.

Thats actually a good time to buy stocks..when they go on the bigger listing where the big guys buy them to diversify...lots of free buyers out there that raise the price..

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by swarmee

My personal guess is that between 10-20% of PSA graded cards are altered without detection. Looks like David Thorn and Evan Mathis were able to trim uncut sheets and get them slabbed by PSA as originally cut in the 1960s/70s. Again, some of these card doctors have been slabbing a 1000+ cards a year for 10 years each. 10x10x1,000 = 100,000 cards just from these guys. And we're not even talking about all the bleaching, erasures, pressing, etc that isn't as detectable from images without before and after pictures.

Again, it's not like all these card alterers were only submitting five cards at a time. Often, the submissions are 100 cards long with only 3 being outed as trimmed. If you want to believe that the other 97% are clean until given visible evidence, you can. I don't live in Fantasyland.

PSA claims to have slabbed 30 million cards. If 5% of these are altered, that is 1.5 million altered cards. That would be $667 per card to equal one billion dollars. And that is not counting problem cards and auto's from SGC, Beckett, GAI, etc. This could easily go over the 1 Billion mark.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by buymycards

PSA claims to have slabbed 30 million cards. If 5% of these are altered, that is 1.5 million altered cards. That would be $667 per card to equal one billion dollars. And that is not counting problem cards and auto's from SGC, Beckett, GAI, etc. This could easily go over the 1 Billion mark.

It so sad but it doesn’t matter one bit. Everything is priced in no prosecution or law enforcement action is going to stop this ........the only way it stops is when the buyers dry up.....period the market will either fix/correct itself or this is just the way it’s going to be.....PSA Auction Houses and Major Registry guys want it this way they don’t want their gravy train to end.

So disgraceful but this is the bottom line facts ......I can’t stomach it anymore that’s why I’ve chosen to sell almost all...I feel better waiting on the sidelines to see what happens