1961 Dice Game

[craigpw]

Thought I'd relate a sad story. In 1991 I was offered 12-15 Topps Dice Game cards all in near mint or better condition and reasonably priced. For some reason I decided to buy just one and let the others go. Here's my one Topps Dice Game card, please post images of other Dice Game Cards.

Thanks,
Craig

[hcv123]

12-15 - I thought only Larry Fritsch had that kind of supply!? I don't have any, but I know a couple of other board members who have some - guys??

[toppcat]

I'd love one but suspect the pricing has passed me by....

[ALR-bishop]

Bob and Larry both have some. I just have the Kaline I posted in the proof thread

[sflayank]

hi
i have pascual but im still a buyer
let me know if u want to sell
thanks
larry

[Mark70Z]

I "need" the Brooks Robinson dice game card, but just couldn't afford it, or even justify the expense, when it came up in auction a while back. In the H&S action the Brooks went for around 19K if I can recall correctly.

So, whoever owns a Brooks Dice Game card, remember the Brooksie single player collector is in "need", or "want" if you want to be picky about it...

[Mark70Z]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Bob and Larry both have some. I just have the Kaline I posted in the proof thread

Al,

Please post it here too; you know we love your Kaline Dice Game card!

[cardinalcollector]

Is Bill White confirmed in this set?

I had the Earl Battey card; bought it in Willow Grove in 1984 or 1985, sold it in the early 1990s. My recollection is that I was offered several others, but I was such a "mint fanatic" that I passed on them due to condition. The Battey wasn't mint - it had the typical staple holes - but it had nice corners and the staple holes were nearly invisible.

I had similar experiences with 1955 Topps Stamps and 1970 Topps Cloth Stickers (and several other more "common" test issues). I managed to find groups of each from dealers like Mid-Atlantic Coin, Rosen and Morris, then "cherry-picked" the nicest ones and turned my nose up at the others, not realizing how rare they were. Again, I sold these and most everything I had around 1991, some through SCD ads and some to Levi Bleam.

When I first got on the internet in 1997 and then eBay a year later, I thought I'd be able to find and replace all the stuff I regretted selling. Didn't happen.

[ALR-bishop]

Neat story Karl. I have just one each of the 61 Dice, 55 Stamps and 70 Cloth. Along with the 66 Punch Outs and recently posted 71 Rookie Artists Proofs, they seem to be the rarest of the unissued Topps test sets.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by Karl Mattson

I had the Earl Battey card; bought it in Willow Grove in 1984 or 1985, sold it in the early 1990s. My recollection is that I was offered several others, but I was such a "mint fanatic" that I passed on them due to condition. The Battey wasn't mint - it had the typical staple holes - but it had nice corners and the staple holes were nearly invisible.

I had similar experiences with 1955 Topps Stamps and 1970 Topps Cloth Stickers (and several other more "common" test issues). I managed to find groups of each from dealers like Mid-Atlantic Coin, Rosen and Morris, then "cherry-picked" the nicest ones and turned my nose up at the others, not realizing how rare they were. Again, I sold these and most everything I had around 1991, some through SCD ads and some to Levi Bleam.

When I first got on the internet in 1997 and then eBay a year later, I thought I'd be able to find and replace all the stuff I regretted selling. Didn't happen.

I sold 1 I regretted - I had the 1966 Mays punchout. "stole" out of a Rosen auction of all places ~20 years ago. Sold it for a nice profit (~1k) to a Mays collector shortly after. Huggins and Scott just auctioned it off for I think about 23k

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Neat story Karl. I have just one each of the 61 Dice, 55 Stamps and 70 Cloth. Along with the 66 Punch Outs and recently posted 71 Rookie Artists Proofs, they seem to be the rarest of the unissued Topps test sets.

I wasn't even aware of the Artists Proofs in the 1980s, and the 1966 Punch Outs weren't on my radar, either. Besides the '61 Dice, '55 Stamps and '70 Cloth, my other grail was the Plaks - I had 12 or 13 of them, and searched like crazy for the others, some of which I know now probably never existed.

In 1984, my company (Cargill) actually transferred me from Minneapolis to an office right in Willow Grove - I think I spent my transfer bonus at a card show the first weekend. There were shows within driving distance pretty much every weekend back then.

I don't recall many other collectors pursuing test issues at the time, and most of what I turned up was through persistence - always giving out updated want lists to dealers, badgering Rosen and Morris on the phone, taking out SCD classified want ads (which actually netted me quite a few items).

I bought my 1955 Stamps from Mid-Atlantic, but only after going to their office/warehouse and asking if they had any oddball stuff. Someone (Rex?) led me to a room, left me there alone and told me to come get him if I found anything of interest. I found 7-10 stamps, but only 3 were uncreased or not miscut. At the time, I don't think anyone knew if they were a legitimate test issue. My recollection is that I just took the 3 nicest ones and paid $10-$20 each for them.

To illustrate how much of a "mint freak" I was, even though I collected everything Topps from 1951-1989 (I got as far as 85% complete, all NMMT and centered, before throwing in the towel), I wouldn't buy any of the 1960 or 1964 tattoos because of the tears they virtually always had. Around 1989, I finally bought a small stash of unissued 1964s from someone that were minty fresh, but I only kept the Killebrew - I finally had it graded a couple of years ago. I think I also agonized about the centering on the 1974 Puzzles, but finally put a set together after it became clear that no centered versions existed for several of them.

Originally Posted by hcv123

I sold 1 I regretted - I had the 1966 Mays punchout. "stole" out of a Rosen auction of all places ~20 years ago. Sold it for a nice profit (~1k) to a Mays collector shortly after. Huggins and Scott just auctioned it off for I think about 23k

Holy cow! I'm not sure I want to know if any of the stuff I had is worth that much today!

Owning rare or unique items, even if only briefly, is a special kick, ain't it? Even when family and friends think you're nuts.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by Karl Mattson

Holy cow! I'm not sure I want to know if any of the stuff I had is worth that much today!

Owning rare or unique items, even if only briefly, is a special kick, ain't it? Even when family and friends think you're nuts.

It is. I appreciate knowing that I was in the chain of ownership. Still have a number of items that fit the bill.

What I really love about those family and friends think I'm nuts thing is when I tell them about selling something that they thought I was nuts for buying at a huge profit - I don't usually hear about how nuts I am at the end of those stories :-)

[ALR-bishop]

The Plaks were a plague on me for some time until Mile High came up with a bunch of them and I was able to fill out the set. The checklists also go for a lot these days.





Another tough issue

[moeson]

Karl, I know what you mean about the 1974 Puzzles. I'm not sure why the catalogs even give pricing for MT centered Ryan or Allen puzzles. Having once had the privilege of owning and opening several boxes, I'm pretty sure they never made it out of the pack that way.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Mark70Z

I "need" the Brooks Robinson dice game card, but just couldn't afford it, or even justify the expense, when it came up in auction a while back. In the H&S action the Brooks went for around 19K if I can recall correctly.

So, whoever owns a Brooks Dice Game card, remember the Brooksie single player collector is in "need", or "want" if you want to be picky about it...

I often use the air quotes when I tell someone I "need" something.

[ALR-bishop]

"It's easy to sit there and say you need more money. And that's what I like about it, sitting there, rocking back and forth, and wanting that money "....Jack Handey

[bobsbbcards]

LOVE the Dice Game cards, Bob. I'm assuming those have no staple holes, since they're graded so high?

From what I've read over the years, there are possibly 3 or 4 copies of each card in existence? One with staple holes, one factory cut, 1 cut from a sheet, and another still in sheet form? Anyone know if the sheets each had a complete set?


Al, the Plaks are probably still my favorite test issue. When Mile High came up with their "find", I was tempted to finally complete the set, even though it would have cost something crazy compared to the $300 or so I spent on the 13 I owned way back when. I settled for just getting a Killebrew.

You may recall, a couple of years ago I wrote on this forum that I believed I once owned a Drysdale Plak, which was apparently a false memory. What nags me, however, is I've been telling the story of owning a Drysdale Plak ever since getting on the internet in '97, which was only 6-7 years after I sold my collection. It's probably still a false memory, but if so, I at least feel confident it's not because of old age.

[ALR-bishop]

Karl--you could turn out to be right. I hope not .

The same issue exists on the 67 Punch Outs. Like the Plaks, SCD had a checklist but no one had ever found several of cards with listed captains. They then changed the listing to say the missing captains likely did not exist. Then one of the missing captains showed up. I think Mays, which may have been a prototype like the Robinson 3D. I think Larry here got that. So my completed set may be one short. . Unless the Mays was a prototype, in which case it could be viewed as separate from the set, like the Robinson.

I think Bob and Larry have both also completed the 67 Stand Up set. I am still 3 short on that one

Bob-- those Dice cards look great. You should post a couple of your 70 cloth.

ALR-bishop: Karl--you could turn out to be right. I hope not .


Yeah, probably not much chance. For what it's worth, I'm confident I never owned any of the other missing players from that set.

Does anyone know if Levi collects/hoards this kind of stuff? Or would he have just flipped anything I sold him 20+ years ago? If by some chance I owned something unique back then and sold it to him, would he have shared that info with the collecting community over the years? I guess I could try and reach out to him, but I'm afraid he'll say he has no recollection of me and put all my memories in doubt.

My collection paled compared to yours, Bob's and Larry's, but I've never seen any Tests on eBay or in any auctions that I felt certain once belonged to me.

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I think Bob and Larry have both also completed the 67 Stand Up set. I am still 3 short on that one

I assume you guys mix-and-match and don't distinguish between the proofs and the die-cuts? Is it even possible to put a set together of only one type?

[ALR-bishop]

Levi has some stuff on the Registry, and I am pretty sure he has his own collection which likely includes a lot of rare material. I correspond with him a bit on the stuff I am still looking for, but have never asked him if he has any of it himself .

I have found that when I send him questions or observations to his email on his web site, I get fairly prompt responses unless he is at a show ( levi@707sportcards.com)

[cardinalcollector]

Has anybody ever seen a Bill White dice card? He's been checklisted for years, I've never seen a photo.
Al or Bob?

[ALR-bishop]

Nope. I am still looking for his 59 "traded" card

[Mark70Z]

Originally Posted by Karl Mattson

From what I've read over the years, there are possibly 3 or 4 copies of each card in existence? One with staple holes, one factory cut, 1 cut from a sheet, and another still in sheet form? Anyone know if the sheets each had a complete set?

Can anyone weigh in on the estimated amount of copies in existence as noted above? In the Brooks example the only one I've personally ever seen was the example with the staple holes in the top of the card. Does anyone have another example? If so, I'd love to see a scan/picture of the card and/or sheet or if they have ever seen another example so I at least know there are more out there...somewhere.

Also, one more thing, these are completed cards printed both on front and back. They're not like, for example, the ''67/'68 Topps discs where they are all basically proofs. So with these cards being complete wouldn't you think there would be some type of proofs out there for these particular cards?

[Mark70Z]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I often use the air quotes when I tell someone I "need" something.

Ha! "Maybe" I got it from you I really can't recall how I ever started to use quotes like that.

[Mark70Z]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

"It's easy to sit there and say you need more money. And that's what I like about it, sitting there, rocking back and forth, and wanting that money "....Jack Handey

Al,

I'm not sure if this quote is in reference to me or not, but it sure sounds like it may be. So, let me make a few comments if you are referring to me. First, I do need more money so you've got me there, but I do not and don't plan to purchase in the future a rocking chair, a La-Z-Boy maybe, but not a rocking chair. Secondly, I would not think about wanting more money rocking back and forth in the newly purchased La-Z-Boy, I'd think about that '67 Disc sheet, or maybe the '74 Topps Deckle sheet w/Brooks included, something in that regard.

Also, if you'd like to reference me in the future, please make it a sports quote, I like sports quotes and what would be even cooler would be a Brooksie quote.

[ALR-bishop]

Mark-- the quote was not directed at you and although it deals with money I was relating it to the discussion of rare cards many of us here wish had or hope to get. It applies to me as much as anyone

Karl-- I mix and match on the 67s, but I think Larry is mostly die cuts. not sure about Bob, but think they both have full sets

[Mark70Z]

Al,

I hope you know I was just joking anyway...

[bobsbbcards]

Originally Posted by Karl Mattson

I'm assuming those have no staple holes, since they're graded so high?

Correct. No staple holes. My Frank Robinson has staple holes, and my Mick was the sheet cut one. I think Larry's Mick is the factory cut/staple hole version. From what I hear, Larry Fritsch (or son) has the uncut sheet.

I have a complete set of the proof (think, no die cut) Standups. Sort of the poor-man's version.

[sflayank]

67 stand up set is all die cuts..have a few proof..not really working on that
plaks i have mays with staub and howard on it i believe..other 4 probably dont exist but who knows
punchouts 197 different out of 198...i lost one cant find a replacement for it
5 captains that were listed do not exist
dice game 10 different...out of 13 ive seen got outbid on mays and wagner(bob)
5 cards of each i believe...1 sheet, 1 cut sheet 1 set of staples, 2 factory cut
1955 stamps have 17 different
67 discs complete
67 giants discs complete
68 discs only have 7 in foil form a few more in proof form

[toppcat]

Larry I would love to see your list of 55 Stamps

[ALR-bishop]

Larry--are you source for 55 Stamps listed in SCD ? If not, how does your list compare.

You also have some of the 66 Punch Outs, right ?

What 67 dupes do you have ?

A guy selling on ebay put together a full set of the 67 Stand Ups in proof and die cut format. He sold them with a mock up of the empty box that sold at auction some time back ( Larry - did you get that ? ). All the cards came in mock up wrappers. There were also easels . They were very well done. From a scan you could not tell them from the real proofs. He sold them clearly labeled as Reproductions and I have not seen him list them again, but it would make me cautious in buying any further proofs for the 3 I still need. I did buy one of each of the sets he put up on ebay, with a box, wrappers and easels

[sflayank]

the 55 stamps i have...+3 dupes
BOONE,GOMEZ,SHEPARD(2),MOSSI,POLLETT,SKINNER(2)
SPOONER,SKOWRON,PENDLETON,JOLLY,HOFMAN,WHITE
JABLONSKi(2),CUNNINGHAM,HADDIX,TREMEL,VALENTINE
66 punchouts
skowron/flood
robinson/mcmillan
mays/conigliaro\
grant/callison
67 standups all die cut...have some proofs not working on that set

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Larry--are you source for 55 Stamps listed in SCD ? If not, how does your list compare.

You also have some of the 66 Punch Outs, right ?

What 67 dupes do you have ?

A guy selling on ebay put together a full set of the 67 Stand Ups in proof and die cut format. He sold them with a mock up of the empty box that sold at auction some time back ( Larry - did you get that ? ). All the cards came in mock up wrappers. There were also easels . They were very well done. From a scan you could not tell them from the real proofs. He sold them clearly labeled as Reproductions and I have not seen him list them again, but it would make me cautious in buying any further proofs for the 3 I still need. I did buy one of each of the sets he put up on ebay, with a box, wrappers and easels

Al are these the same as the 3-D easels?

[ALR-bishop]

Dave---sorry I misremembered what he put together. No easels. Here is a scan of the box and packs he made and a copy of each type of card, die cut and proof, next to my real ones

[judgejules1]

18822_med_thumbnail.jpg

[judgejules1]

Originally Posted by sflayank

the 55 stamps i have...+3 dupes
BOONE,GOMEZ,SHEPARD(2),MOSSI,POLLETT,SKINNER(2)
SPOONER,SKOWRON,PENDLETON,JOLLY,HOFMAN,WHITE
JABLONSKi(2),CUNNINGHAM,HADDIX,TREMEL,VALENTINE
66 punchouts
skowron/flood
robinson/mcmillan
mays/conigliaro\
grant/callison
67 standups all die cut...have some proofs not working on that set

I'm new to this board, but it's nice to find out who my mays/conigliaro went to. I put that up with Huggins and Scott.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by judgejules1

I'm new to this board, but it's nice to find out who my mays/conigliaro went to. I put that up with Huggins and Scott.

When/what got you started? Are you still actively collecting? Looking to sell?

[Gmrson]

I was offered the Brooks Robinson back around 1983 from Greg Businneau for $350. Quite a bit of money for a 17-year-old, but I had always bought all the other Brooks Robinson test issues that Greg had offered me. I asked for a couple days to get the money together which he agreed upon. The LCS owner I worked for didn't want me to miss out on it and agreed to give me a pay advance. I called Greg the next morning after the date he offered it to me but yet gotten rid of it. I never saw another one until a Huggins and Scott auction a few years ago. I also turn down everything else Greg offered to me since there was nothing like this. Although, I probably would've jumped if it was a really were piece but at that point my collection had advanced pretty well.

Craig, are you the same Craig W. that bought dozens of 81-83 Fleer proof sheets off me back in 1987?

[Mark70Z]

Mike,

I don't know if I have asked you already or not, but was the '61 Dice Game Brooks that was offered the same as the one listed in the H&S auction? Would be cool to know how many actually exist.

On a side note, has anyone ever discovered any proof items related to the Dice Game?

[Gmrson]

Sorry Mark, I never got to see the card or hear who bought it.

Originally Posted by Mark70Z

Mike,

I don't know if I have asked you already or not, but was the '61 Dice Game Brooks that was offered the same as the one listed in the H&S auction? Would be cool to know how many actually exist.

On a side note, has anyone ever discovered any proof items related to the Dice Game?

[bobsbbcards]

This was a fun thread to revisit, so I thought I'd post my Drysdale to bring it back to life.

[Mark70Z]

Bob,

Thanks for reviving the thread.

By the way, anyone have the Brooks Robinson dice game on here?!? I saw the one that went in H&S years ago, but unsure who picked it up. Also, is there any more Brooksie dice game cards out there?

[sflayank]

Well at least i know wagner and drysdale have a good home

[brian1961]

Originally Posted by bobsbbcards

This was a fun thread to revisit, so I thought I'd post my Drysdale to bring it back to life.

Bob, I cannot pass up the chance to say thank you for posting the scan of your mesmerizing 1961 Topps Dice Game Don Drysdale. I have loved this shot of Big D most of my life. This beautiful photo embodies everything I love about Don. The superlatives just gush forth, Bob. Simply put, I just love this card.

You know, when a card of a great player like Don is rare, but ugly, I just don't care for it. However, when it's ultra rare, and ultra beautiful, that becomes what Humphrey Bogart said in THE MALTESE FALCON, "the ah, stuff that dreams are made of". Thanks again, bro! --Brian Powell

[bobsbbcards]

Originally Posted by brian1961

Thanks again, bro! --Brian Powell

You're quite welcome.

Some of you may not know that most of the 1961 Topps Dice Game cards were lifted off the small B&W side pictures from the 1960 set. Here are the 1960 cards of the 18 players comprising the Dice set. Let's play "How Many Match?"

[bobsbbcards]