Beautiful E90-1 Mathewson card on e-bay

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Posted By: Brueso

Interesting how the first 8 bids were all by the same person (who only has 8 feedback, 4 of which were for cards that he/she won for $15 max). Well- it's up to around $600 now- but it is a knock out.

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Posted By: Tim Sedlock

That E90-1 Matty has logged quite a bit of travel time. This is not the first time it has been offered on eBay. It has been offered before by a different seller if memory serves. It has recently been on Teletrade as well. And since it is in a PRO holder...BUYER BEWARE! And if it is legit, they why the low reserve for it???

Tim

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

Let me give you a little bit of history on this card. I am a relative of Christy, and I only buy his memorabilia (One HOF Buying Habit is enough! ) I follow the Christy-M auctions as closely as I can, and I communicate with many, many other buddies and fans that I have met on eBay and other venues. This PRO-Graded card has been trimmed and is basically worthelsss. It was originally auctioned off by eBay user "brsz-2" on August 17, 2001 under Item # 1177188057 (I have saved scans from EVERY auction where this card has appeared...look at the scan, then look at the scan of this card, the same smudges and imperfections on the surface of the card are there...it's the same card). In that auction, "brsz-2" actually admitted the card was certified as trimmed by PSA, yet saying "it was still an immacualte card nonetheless". Quite honorably, "brsz-2" was being honest about the card's condition, and there is NOTHING wrong with selling a TRIMMED CARD if you tell people it is a TRIMMED CARD. (In fact, contact brsz-2 and ask him). Sometime after that auction, eBay user "places" came into ownership of it and had it encased by PRO. Interestingly, "places" has been selling many trimmed, worthless cards on eBay in PRO holders. (Go look at her feedback, she has been defrauding people left and right, you'll see that in her negative feedback items she has been getting). I am not slandering anyone by saying this on the Net -- it is in her feedback, and many people have been talking about her activity on eBay selling trimmed cards by having them encased in PRO-holders. The first PRO encasement of that card was numbered PRO 30450222. When "places" was called on her auction by several of the bidders who retracted, she pulled the auction, then had it encased by PRO (again), under PRO number 30457034 (the new holder number you see here, a later number -- interestingly, that first PRO-holder was so poorly done, that PRO had incorrectly labelled the card as an E-91 Set B). Then she had someone else try to sell it off on eBay, or just sold it to someone else for a few bucks (probably the $8 it cost her to have PRO encase it, or whatever they charge). But the word was out by then and the same thing happened. Now, it has apparently been passed off to someone else to see if they can have any luck unloading it. It has no permanent collector value, and I think it is a shame that eBay allows this kind of activity to continue, but perhaps it is because the number of auctions is so numerous, maybe they just can't control this kind of fraud anymore. Even though, I would expect they would disallow someone from continuing after several complaints of fraud against them filed by eBay buyers. A rule of thumb lately seems to be: don't buy anything in a PRO holder. Some eBay user called "psa-card" or "psa-cards", or something like that, has been doing this same thing for quite some time, too. The trick was to take the trimmed card in a PRO holder and put it up for auction, hoping to get hundreds of dollars (or more) for it. Then, along with that card, offer up a common/very cheap card in a PSA holder to make the auction "look sanguine" by having PSA's name in there somewhere. Clever...and, unfortunately, a lot of people got duped by it. Again, look at the seller's feedback and see for yourself. I use THREE graders only: MINT in FL, PSA in CA and SGC in NJ. They are the only three who seem to be quality, consistent and fair, sometimes tough on grading...nonetheless consistent. I've heard and seen enough about the other ones to stay away. Hopefully, the last winner of this Mathewson card bought it because it was pretty, and not because it was authentic, unaltered or worth something. I wouldn't give ten bucks for it. Anyway, happy hunting to all my eBay buddies out there. It's always been a pleasure trading with all of you. (By the way, I wanted to brag a little -- I have a Christy Mathewson bat that I'm finally having encased in a mahogany box with bullet-proof glass, and I may be putting it up on display in Safeco Field soon as a tribute to Christy...this is so much fun... -dan

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Posted By: HalleyGator

And THAT, my friends, is the REST of the story!!!

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Posted By: Brueso

...everyone else would view it as being "worthless" and I could scoop it up for $50 or so. It's a beautiful looking card (trimming notwithstanding) and I haven't seen it as much on e-bay as say, the E92 Mathewson (which is also a beautiful card).

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Posted By: Brian C Daniels

just for the record. Also I have the Matty game used and signed glove you may have seen in auction a few years back. I sold a giant collection of matty stuff in the Executive autions sale of 1994 label " The Matty Collection " if you wish to exchange some information,here is my address:
Cardknowledge@earthlink.net

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Posted By: Doug Allen

Hey Dan,

I would love to get an image and the specifications of your Matty bat. I don't beleive Christy ever signed a signature contract with H&B so I assume it is block letter or a Spalding bat. Our firm put out a bat guide and would love to update our records.

Regards,
Doug

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Posted By: runscott

BTW - I still haven't received that e90-1 Matty, but I will send you a scan as soon as it comes in. Hopefully BCD won't intercept my mail and take his x-acto to it!

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

Seller (Suesvoicenetetc.) sells, buys on e-bay, very respectably, all the time. Commonly in the $1000 range.

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Posted By: Brueso

...how much trimming lowers the value of a card.

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Posted By: TBob

I have communicated with the seller of the Matty (and have had dealt with him before) and he is a stand up guy. He was honestly surprised when the issue of the card's measurements came up in our correspondence. The reason is that he bought the card from teletrade and just assumed there was no problem with the card, vis a vis trimming, because he innocently thought teletrade was a reputable compnay which wouldn't be selling altered cards.
In this case, I believe the seller is o.k. The only problem I have is that after I informed him of the card's problem, he didn't pull it. I am disappointed in that.

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Posted By: brueso

...you would think that any buyer would suspect by looking at the card that it might have been trimmed at some point and wants it anyway.

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Posted By: Jim Freeman

Like Dan Mathewson, I too follow certain types of auctions on eBay very closely. Dan is correct that this card has traveled quite a bit. I think it is safe to say that most collectors know that PRO grading service does not have the best reputation in the hobby. When it comes to PRO graded cards, it is Buyer Beware.

I think it is also important to point out that even though the sellers Dan referred to were selling PRO graded cards, it is unfair to say that their cards were trimmed. Dan should exercise better judgment before drawing such damning conclusions. This is defamation of character and contrary to his claim of innocence, does meet the definition of slander, which could cost him his entire Mathewson collection and more. The only thing that any of us can say about these sellers is that they are "guilty" of selling PRO cards, which is not a violation of eBay's policies, nor a frustration of public policy.
He likes to think that he is still in law enforcement and that eBay is his beat. This behavior is apparently one that has followed Dan while he was employed as a police officer in Seattle. You may find these three articles interesting:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/gay061.shtml>
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/local/html98/cops_19990801.html>
http://www.advocate.com/html/news/021401/021401news08.asp>

The purpose of my post is to warn collectors to use extra care when purchasing baseball cards and about disseminating information based on hearsay. A bit of due diligence can go a long way and prevent costly
mistakes and misinterpretations.

-JF

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Posted By: Jim Freeman

Like Dan Mathewson, I too follow certain types of auctions on eBay very closely. Dan is correct that this card has traveled quite a bit. I think it is safe to say that most collectors know that PRO grading service does not have the best reputation in the hobby. When it comes to PRO graded cards, it is Buyer Beware.

I think it is also important to point out that even though the sellers Dan referred to were selling PRO graded cards, it is unfair to say that their cards were trimmed. Dan should exercise better judgment before drawing such damning conclusions. This is defamation of character and contrary to his claim of innocence, does meet the definition of slander, which could cost him his entire Mathewson collection and more. The only thing that any of us can say about these sellers is that they are "guilty" of selling PRO cards, which is not a violation of eBay's policies, nor a frustration of public policy.

He likes to think that he is still in law enforcement and that eBay is his beat. This behavior is apparently one that has followed Dan while he was employed as a police officer in Seattle. You may find these three articles interesting:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/gay061.shtml>
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/local/html98/cops_19990801.html>
http://www.advocate.com/html/news/021401/021401news08.asp>

The purpose of my post is to warn collectors to use extra care when purchasing baseball cards and about disseminating information based on hearsay. A bit of due diligence can go a long way and prevent costly
mistakes and misinterpretations.

-JF

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Jim,

Gosh, thanks for pointing out those helpful articles that have absolutely nothing to do with any baseball cards or anything to do with this board. Who are you? Are you infatuated with Dan? Do you even collect vintage baseball cards? I also liked the part where you talked about slander and then mentioned how Dan could lose his entire Matty collection. That was especially informative.

As far as Dan and his credibility...A few weeks ago I put a Mathewson card on ebay. I did not know what the card was and said so in the auction description. Dan was kind enough to e-mail and tell me exactly what the card was (1930 Post Cereal) and even how much that card had sold for on ebay in the past. This was very helpful information and I greatly appreciated it. He got nothing out of it. Wasn't trying to buy the card from me, wasn't trying to get anything from me, just one collector helping another. The way this "business" should be.

I also found his post about the E90-1 to be very helpful as well.

I realize that your post was meant to slam (as opposed to "slander") Dan and make him look bad, but I wanted to let you know that it did exactly the opposite. We both know that it had nothing to do with actually warning the rest of us "to use extra care" or whatever it was you said.

I would have LOVED to have sent this message to you by e-mail but of course you didn't post your e-mail address. Mine is ourfirstvacation@yahoo.com. What's yours?

-Ryan

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

Well... First of all, that card has traveled a lot as Mr. Freeman admitted as well. And, that is what I intended to point out.

Mr. Freeman also stated: "When it comes to PRO graded cards, it is Buyer Beware." OK...what I said, exactly, was "A rule of thumb lately SEEMS to be: don't buy anything in a PRO holder." I did not say it as directly or all-inclusively as Mr Freeman did. Yet, I think that is also an important point to consider.

Mr Freeman goes on to state this: "I think it is also important to point out that even though the sellers Dan referred to were selling PRO graded cards, it is unfair to say that their cards were trimmed. Dan should exercise better judgment before drawing such damning conclusions." <Laugh Out Loud> OK...ONCE AGAIN, please go back to my entry so you can see how Mr Freeman is misquoting me. I did not say "they were selling PRO graded cards, and their cards were trimmed". In fact, that would be a damning and unfair "generalization". I did not make that generalization. What I did say is this: "Interestingly, "places" has been selling many trimmed, worthless cards on eBay in PRO holders. (Go look at her feedback, she has been defrauding people left and right, you'll see that in her negative feedback items she has been getting)". That is a direct quote from my entry. Now, if you do go to eBay and look, there are 7 negative entries of this nature (from 7 separate transactions) in the last 8 months of her history. That is significant. Two of them are not in red highlights, as they appear as follow-ups to comments (the buyers found out later that the cards had been trimmed after initially leaving positive feedback upon delivery). Each of these persons were defrauded and they said so, saying the cards were trimmed. Is my repeating their direct comments any different or "slanderous", simply by telling people to "Buyer Beware" and by telling them where to look for that information?? I think not... Many people on eBay are my friends, and I think it's important that we all tell each other about this sort of activity. That isn't "being a cop on the eBay beat..." as Mr Freeman puts it. It's looking out for the well-being of your friends. Mr Freeman may be the type who walks by an incident and says nothing while someone is being victimized, or never stops to help them out. Mr Mathewson is not that type of person.

I clearly included that information because the complaints are in her eBay history and feedback file. Please, go look at it; just go back 8 months or so. Several people complained about being bilked in this manner; and many, many of us have seen e-mails from other people who have also claimed fraud. Else, I would not have put that in writing in this forum.

Additionally, what I pointed out was that the several feedback complaints that one eBay user has in particular, related specifically to this practice of selling trimmed cards in PRO holders. Sorry...it isn't slander if I'm simply relating information which can be researched on eBay. It's right there in living color, right under that person's username by several different people.

I then went on to recommend the professional grading services that I prefer, based on my personal experience with them as well as the comments I hear from other people about grading services. I can pass on those recommendations as well. I like those services, I use them, I prefer them, I think they are great. I'll advise my friends the good places I think they should take a look at and give a try; and I try to tell my friends of pitfalls they should avoid, and why they should avoid them.

With all of Mr Freeman's misinformation, I'm literally scratching my head trying to understand why he is angry and completely misquoting the things I said in my earlier entry, as well as making false statements about my reputation on eBay. Then, I saw the links to articles on my court case with the police department which he included into this forum about baseball cards.

I think Mr. Freeman would like me to be embarrassed for fighting for my civil rights. Or, perhaps for being a cop. Or, perhaps for being gay. Well, I'm not. Otherwise, I wouldn't have ever taken a very tough fight to Federal Court where I knew it would likely get public coverage. Yes, I lost the case, but I went there knowing that "winning in court" was unlikely. Still, I'm very proud of that fight, even as difficult as it was; and the several officers who testified on my behalf (a couple were of very high rank) supported me and what was asserted. When a person fights for his/her civil rights, you do not decide to "fight the fights that can be won. You must fight the fights that need fighting." Some things needed to be documented. And, the key is that the City was put on notice. Myself and the others at that department who had done exceptional jobs for that department, but were treated in a discriminatory manner until we were forced to resign, are hopefully the last ones that the department will treat that way. THAT ALONE was worth the battle. Discrimination is probably the toughest civil claim to prove, especially when the biggest violations are things done carefully and succinctly by high ranking professionals who don't leave an easy trail to follow, or much of one at all. Mr Freeman's comments on this unrelated topic, oddly interjected into a conversation about baseball cards on eBay, apparently is meant to embarrass or degrade me, but I won't be ashamed of myself or my fight for my civil rights. Sometimes, the fight must benefit others who follow later and I believe a person must be selfless and forthright in that regard.

I never expected a baseball card conversation to get to a level where a person with a chip on his shoulder about cops, or civil rights, or gay persons (or all three, who knows...) would take personal, hate/bias matters to such a vindictive level, and try to introduce that subject matter as if it were relevant to the baseball/eBay auctions that were discussed.

Nevertheless, and back to the topic of baseball cards, I still think it is wise for all of us to be aware of the scams on eBay and be kind enough to one another to warn friends when this occurs so they don't end up buying worthless junk. This was simply a "buyer beware" kinda thing, that's all.

My personal apologies to the rest of the readers in this forum for weird tangent that this conversation twisted to -- I only meant to continue a conversation that has been going on for far longer than I have been on eBay myself. My best to you all, even to you Mr Freeman. Quite honestly, even though you seem to misquote a great deal and state misinformation, I hope that nobody on eBay rips you off, as I would hope for anyone else. I simply believe that people should be honest in their transactions and completely disclose everything about their merchandise. And, when persons are not honest, I hope that everyone who recognizes it makes noise about it so nobody else is hurt by them.

-dan

PS. I did notice one other thing, now, before sending this with the "Respond!" key. The system seems to indicate that Mr Freeman's e-mail response address is seattleguy@address.com -- Seattle being where I am from and it's the area where I was a cop for over 10 years. Since I dealt with literally thousands of people in my career as a cop, I haven't made the connection yet...but, being an interesting coincidence, I'm beginning to think that perhaps this could be an unfortunate, personal vendetta of some sort. Again, my apologies to the forum.

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Posted By: runscott

...and I would recommend you get out of both businesses. I didn't have to open the links your provided, to know where you were going with this - someone named Scotty Lyons did the very same thing the last time Dan sent an email out to a group of vintage card collectors.

Dan is interested in vintage baseball memorabilia, and shares his knowledge with the rest of us - it is very much appreciated.

You have a problem - seek help. We don't know you, so keep it between you and your doctor.

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Posted By: David

I agree that Jim's post was cheesy and bordering on the bizarre. The links made Jim look just a tad biased in his argument (Give the benifit of the doubt to PRO? That's a good one).

I think all Jim's post proves is that we must be getting guys from the PSA board.

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Posted By: leon

This is one view my Republican friends might not like. I think there is a place for everyone. Who cares about sexual preference, religion, color, or whatever?...judge a person by how they treat YOU. I am not going to even get into any of the other debates that could surround this except to say that I hope Dan keeps posting, or at least keeps up with the board.....more knowledge is something we can all use....best regards all....

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Posted By: Dr.Richard Koos

....the world record holder in the "How much cash have you stuffed down the toilet on altered Pro-Graded Vintage cards?" wallet-demolition derby. I MUST be able to help out here in some way. After all, I have a doctorates in Medicine and in Pro Graded cards. C'mon out there, let's here it!! Am I the King? Or just the 10 of diamonds when it comes to horse's asses that actually BOUGHT Pro-Graded (Pro-graded being synonymous with spurious, trimmed, re-colored, bleached, stretched, repaired, etc.) cards and STILL believes that this is a legitimate grading service with UNrestored Vintage cards within the holder? If anything inside a Pro-Holder isn't altered, it's by accident, a mix-up on a card the company in question meant to send to SGC or PSA but mixed up in the Pro dung-heap for "in-house" slabbing.
OK, Let's get down to brass tacks. I've got $21.4 thousand paid, into pure Pro graded S**t! Like two angry turds that just won't flush in the feces friendly waters of a toliet, just TWO cards, a 52T Pro 8 Mantle and an E90-1 Pro 7 Jax. Value if real: an EZ $50K+. Actual value: Nothing! What I want to know is if I'm the Champ!! Can anyone else even come close to my self-professed record?

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Posted By: HalleyGator

Thank God the REAL Dr. Koos is not back....

I was scared at first when I saw the "author", but the dripping sarcasm cured me!!

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Posted By: Dr.Richard Koos

....what's your point? Are you inferring that you scare far too easily? If so, I suggest a course of chelated calcium and magnesium supplementation. That will help strengthen and build backbone on anyone who feels they scare far too easily.

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Posted By: HalleyGator

Be VERY afraid!!!

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Posted By: David

The only thing I fear is getting Halley's bill

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Posted By: Jeff Obermeyer

I don't know David... I'm an adjuster for an insurance company, and I fear Halley representing someone and sueing my pants off!

Jeff