POLL: IN or OUT: YES or NO

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by rats60

Joe Jackson has been waiting 82 years. They haven't waited long enough in my opinion.

Joe Jackson's transgression was much worse. He participated in a plot to throw the World Series to gamblers. No comparison...although I would probably vote for Joe to get in.

[bnorth]

Bonds-yes
Clemens-YES

Neither cheater more than whoever your favorite player is.

[HRBAKER]

That's the easiest way to excuse lying and cheating, assume or assert that everyone did it.

[Leon]

no

no

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

That's the easiest way to excuse lying and cheating, assume or assert that everyone did it.

Well, aren't you assuming that Clemens did it? As far as I know (and correct me if I'm wrong), he never failed a test.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Well, aren't you assuming that Clemens did it? As far as I know (and correct me if I'm wrong), he never failed a test.

Neither did Lance Armstrong.....Or at least he never failed any after the Nike people talked to the UCI people.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's the same old tired debate, but the same people who get all sanctimonious about roids still revere guys who popped amphetamines like Aaron and Mays.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's the same old tired debate, but the same people who get all sanctimonious about roids still revere guys who popped amphetamines like Aaron and Mays.

Ruth ate hot dogs. That's my kind of guy.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by steve B

Neither did Lance Armstrong.....Or at least he never failed any after the Nike people talked to the UCI people.

Armstrong admits it, Clemens denies it.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Well, aren't you assuming that Clemens did it? As far as I know (and correct me if I'm wrong), he never failed a test.

Maybe after a four year stretch in Boston where he was 40-39 with an ERA around 4 he discovered the Canadian Fountain of Youth. Just as plausible I guess.

At the end of the day these guys decided to do what they did, they were already greats. Those of us who think no didn't make them do it. They have already enjoyed all of the good things that flowed from it, the adulation, the fame, the contracts and the mockery of the record books. Now they are left to deal with the baggage.

I am certain they will get in.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Joe Jackson's transgression was much worse. He participated in a plot to throw the World Series to gamblers. No comparison...although I would probably vote for Joe to get in.

Strongly disagree. .375/.394/.563/.956 5 runs 1 HR 6 RBIs 0 errors in 8 games. If that is "throwing" the World Series, then Bonds "threw" 3 NLCS with his .191 BA and 3 RBIs in 20 games.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by rats60

Strongly disagree. .375/.394/.563/.956 5 runs 1 HR 6 RBIs 0 errors in 8 games. If that is "throwing" the World Series, then Bonds "threw" 3 NLCS with his .191 BA and 3 RBIs in 20 games.

I know Jackson had the great stats which leads one to believe he changed his mind along the way. But he did take money from the gamblers, didn't he? The first installment was split among the eight players.

Look, I don't condone cheating and personally hate it. But I also hate the incredibly mediocre players that are getting into the Hall in the place of the tainted superstars. Trammell and Morris were fine players but debatable for entry. I guess it's just my general disdain for the HOF.

[botn]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I know Jackson had the great stats which leads one to believe he changed his mind along the way. But he did take money from the gamblers, didn't he? The first installment was split among the eight players.

Look, I don't condone cheating and personally hate it. But I also hate the incredibly mediocre players that are getting into the Hall in the place of the tainted superstars. Trammell and Morris were fine players but debatable for entry. I guess it's just my general disdain for the HOF.

Hi Barry,

Then Jackson should be punished for stealing money but let's assume he did participate in throwing the series, despite his stats saying otherwise, we are comparing a player's indiscretion over 8 games compared to those who cheated over several hundred games.

Maybe it is time for us to accept that there are really very few superstars in the game who are not cheating but that should not mean we look the other way for the guys who did cheat to become superstars. Bonds was HOF material before he used. I don't think we should be acknowledging his (or anyone else's) accomplishments knowing he broke the rules to achieve them.

Greg

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's the same old tired debate, but the same people who get all sanctimonious about roids still revere guys who popped amphetamines like Aaron and Mays.

I'm not understanding the greenies argument at all. You can still take the modern equivalent of greenies and play right now so long as you have a prescription. You can't take HGH or anabolic steroids at all, prescription or not. It's not an apt comparison.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I'm not understanding the greenies argument at all. You can still take the modern equivalent of greenies and play right now so long as you have a prescription. You can't take HGH or anabolic steroids at all, prescription or not. It's not an apt comparison.

Using amphetamines without a prescription became a federal crime in about 1970. Do you think the pile of greenies in the clubhouse until baseball banned them in 2006 (I think that's the right date) was all by prescription? So we're cool with players who committed a federal crime repeatedly, but not with players who used HGH?

[clydepepper]

Here are two weird ideas:

1.)The ONLY voting will be done by current Hall-of-Famers.


and / or


2.) Elect Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, etc.,

but only INDUCT Them POSTHUMOUSLY!

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Using amphetamines without a prescription became a federal crime in about 1970. Do you think the pile of greenies in the clubhouse until baseball banned them in 2006 (I think that's the right date) was all by prescription? So we're cool with players who committed a federal crime repeatedly, but not with players who used HGH?

Are you saying Mantle, Mays and Aaron were using greenies in the twilight of their careers post-1970? Mantle had already retired. Mays and Aaron were on their last legs.