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  #1  
Old 06-12-2013, 09:35 PM
oldmanvintagecards oldmanvintagecards is offline
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Default Most Undervalued Boxing Card/Set

What is everybody's most underrated/undervalued boxing card/set? What card do you think is just a ticking time bomb waiting to explode in value? Obviously this is going to be a card that you have or want because part of the fun of collecting is playing the market: buying low and hopefully selling sky high! So what is everyone's choice for the boxing card or set that is going to explode in value and why?

My choice is a 1964 Simon Chocolates Cassius Clay in mid to high grade, if high grade even exists! I personally believe this is his true rookie card because it is the first card that nobody can make an argument for it not being a card, like the Hemmets and Rekord pictures haha. Besides it being his rookie, the Simon Clay is extremely rare and almost never comes up for sale. The ones that do make it to auction almost all have destroyed backs from being glued in to albums or if they weren't protected by the albums are almost all near destroyed. The highest graded copy is only a PSA 4 and there are only 6 total copies graded. I have been looking for any copies I can find and there just aren't many at all. I have one that should beat out the PSA 4 but will probably only grade out to a PSA 5 or 6 max. That is my card I think is going to explode in value once collectors realize how rare this Clay card is and how impossible it is to find in even mid grade. I have another lower cost card that I think could become fairly expensive if people ever find out about it. After looking for months for a copy of this card there are 2 auctions for it ending on Monday. I will.mention that card after I hopefully own a couple of them, for under $5 haha. They aren't boxing but they aren't big 4 sports cards either.

What's everyone else's? A lot of times extrely rare cards never rise in value because no one knows about them. Let's get people to know about your rare cards you think, or want, to rise in value!
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  #2  
Old 06-13-2013, 12:23 PM
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I could tell you but I'd have to kill you afterwards

There's lots to choose from...Whether it is rare overseas type cards or obscure prewar American regional issues. IMO you really can't go wrong with scarce cards of all-time greats of the sport in career-contemporary issues. I don't predict values but some of the cards I enjoy having are cards like these:







I figure if I enjoy them others will too and that will work to my advantage in the future if I ever decide to sell my collection. I'd say learn what you can and then trust your eye.

I also consider good photos to be a great deal right now.



In the future collectors are going to look back on the era of the great newspaper archive liquidations the way collectors who started in the last ten years look at the late 1970s for baseball cards.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 06-13-2013 at 12:26 PM.
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  #3  
Old 06-13-2013, 02:33 PM
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Love that Monzon card.

I've got both of those Ali Malaysia playing cards, but without that style of numbering on the front. That seems unusual from what I'm used to seeing with that issue, though I think there's tons of different variations on those.
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  #4  
Old 06-13-2013, 04:22 PM
oldmanvintagecards oldmanvintagecards is offline
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Adam, I have a few of the Malaysian Ali cards. They are awesome cards. What year is the Dempsey Oh Boy Gum card?
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  #5  
Old 06-13-2013, 05:41 PM
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Late 20s.
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  #6  
Old 06-14-2013, 08:37 AM
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Like the Schmeling photo. Monzon's red girdle looks kind of scary to me.
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  #7  
Old 06-14-2013, 01:49 PM
oldmanvintagecards oldmanvintagecards is offline
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Adam, what year is the Hocus Focus card of Marciano? Is it 1959 (I believe?) like the other Hocus Focus cards? I have been looking for a card of his that predates his 1951 Ringside or if that is not possible then I am looking for a non-Ringside card of his from 1951. I am trying to keep common cards out of my rookie collection.
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  #8  
Old 06-14-2013, 01:56 PM
oldmanvintagecards oldmanvintagecards is offline
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Doesn't anyone have any other cards that they think are great buys, or have any great success or extreme failure stories with collecting and hoping for a rise in value. I always try to do about a 50/50 split of collecting cards that I like and trying to buy cards because they are too good of a value to pass up. When I purchase for value I try to flip the cards quickly, so that I can use the profits to buy cards that I like and not care about value.
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  #9  
Old 06-14-2013, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmanvintagecards View Post
Adam, what year is the Hocus Focus card of Marciano? Is it 1959 (I believe?) like the other Hocus Focus cards? I have been looking for a card of his that predates his 1951 Ringside or if that is not possible then I am looking for a non-Ringside card of his from 1951. I am trying to keep common cards out of my rookie collection.
1955/56. You might be thinking of the Hocus Fokus cards from Germany. It is most definitely not common; I've seen only a few. Great info on the set:

http://toppsarchives.blogspot.com/se...0Hocus%20Focus
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 06-14-2013 at 02:14 PM.
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  #10  
Old 06-14-2013, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmanvintagecards View Post
Doesn't anyone have any other cards that they think are great buys, or have any great success or extreme failure stories with collecting and hoping for a rise in value.
I don't think you are going to get much of an answer to this question because you are in essence asking that anyone who cares about investing in cards divulge to you his investment strategy, which is not exactly the smartest thing to do with a potential competitor.
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  #11  
Old 06-15-2013, 10:25 PM
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My choice would be 1965 Lampo cassius Clay with the text back.
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  #12  
Old 06-22-2013, 12:12 PM
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2010 Ringside Round 1 Onyx Turkey Red. These things are going for a lot. So are the Gold variations which are 10/10. Been offered a lot for mine so I threw a couple on ebay wth some crazy prices to be a clown Not far from what I have been offered though...

Last edited by nameless; 06-22-2013 at 12:15 PM.
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  #13  
Old 06-30-2013, 04:07 PM
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Default Undervalued cards...

In my opinion, prejudiced as it admittedly is, almost all of Muhammad Ali's early cards (read: pre-1990s) continue to be undervalued, especially those from the 1960s-70s. Further, although the many of the more recent Sport Kings/Ringside and resurrected Leaf Company's issues which had certified Ali autographs incorporated into them may have realized some decent prices off and on, I think that in the not so far distant future those prices will be looked back upon as having been undervalued in worth over all...especially if, when and after the inevitable comes to Ali as it comes to all of us eventually. Compare what even Ali's earliest cards currently go for with certain star athletes in the other main sports and especially Michael Jordon's rookie cards. Among my favorite Clay/Ali cards are:

1. 1965 "Orange Background" Clay--tooted as being produced in Sweden, very few are ever seen and even less have survived in any real kind of great overall condition. While these may have been imported into Sweden and also distributed there, this card was actually produced in Holland originally, mislabeled here as being of Swedish origins in slabs by grading companies.

2. 1967 "Serie M.L.H." 3 known Clay cards; #s 48, 49 & 50. These were also produced in Holland and say so; backs with a "Cowboy Gum" graphics. These were originally produced by the Dandy Gum Company.

3. 1967-69 "Monty" Clay- here in the US suddenly referred to as "Perfetti" of Italian candy origins, but if any were distributed with Perfetti Italian candies, they were imported into Italy and used yet were actually produced in Denmark by Monty Gum. Both Holland's Dandy and Denmark's Monty companies produced HORDES of 'candy/gum' cards from among which many were imported by other countries' companies for their own marketing uses. That makes these other countries "distributors" of them, not originators. They exported their productions to Sweden before the Swedes began producing their very own "candy card" series; known to have done so into Canada, France, and Italy as well...who sometimes added their own stamped graphics or whatnot to their blank backs.

4. 1967 Spanish "Campeones Y Estrellas" album card is another favorite; still don't know who produced it originally though.

5. For U.S. favorites, I've always liked the 1975 large size two cards issued by "St. John's Ice Cream." This pair one seldom sees offered either.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 13. 1964 (Holland) Orange Clay @ 300 copy.jpg (67.8 KB, 178 views)
File Type: jpg 1967 Holland copy.jpg (70.2 KB, 175 views)
File Type: jpg 1967 Holland (B) copy.jpg (28.5 KB, 176 views)
File Type: jpg 37. 1967-69 MONTY (aka Perfetti-Ital) "C. CLAY" @ 300 copy.jpg (66.5 KB, 176 views)
File Type: jpg 1975 St. John's Ice Cream @ 72.jpg (24.1 KB, 175 views)
File Type: jpg '75 St John's Ice Cream @ 72.jpg (17.0 KB, 174 views)
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  #14  
Old 06-30-2013, 04:19 PM
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Default Forgot to add the '67 Spanish issue's image ...

There are quite a few other South American, Mexican, Spanish heritage and other country's Clay/Ali issues from the late 1960s and 1970s that have been surfaced across the last 10 years or so, too. What I'm trying to do right now is decifer the extent of the 1975 Malaysian/Singapore origin Ali/Bugner commemorative Playing Card series myself, but I think that topic is worthy of starting its own whole new topic post if anyone is interested and might care to help me out.

Here is the Campeones Y Estrellas I forgot to include last time...
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File Type: jpg 32. 1967 Campeones y Estrellas @ 72.jpg (34.1 KB, 177 views)
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  #15  
Old 06-30-2013, 08:15 PM
eagles33 eagles33 is offline
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Great info. Thanks! We're all of the perfetti cards issued as part if panels of we're some factory cut.
This sold for quite a but in eBay a while back. It was the only time I've seen it

Last edited by eagles33; 06-30-2013 at 09:54 PM.
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  #16  
Old 07-01-2013, 06:29 PM
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One of the 1975 St. James Ali's sold for $202.50 in February 2012. Only time I've seen it offered on Ebay:



Yes I am obsessive enough to save screen shots of listings...
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 07-04-2013 at 10:27 AM.
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  #17  
Old 07-02-2013, 02:42 PM
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Default N310 Mayo's

Over 100 year old set with major stars and very tough even in mid grade.
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  #18  
Old 07-02-2013, 05:51 PM
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Default UNCUT 4-CARD w/ "MONTY" CLAY...

I've only seen this Monty Gum-Clay (aka: "Perfetti" Italy distributed) as a single before that recent 4-in-1 panel post. I'm speculating, but believe they were issued as factory-cut singles; the 4-in-1 panel likely being a sample sheet, or part of some larger uncut multi-card sheet. Anybody know differently, it'd be much appreciated if you would share so with us.

May I ask what fully was offered as an eBay description for that 4-in-1 panel?

There was a seller on eBay some time back liquidating a HUGE, extremely diverse issue years and topics' selection, Monty Gum card collection for an overseas friend of his, aged late 80s, who'd been collecting Monty issues for as long as that friend could remember. Among them were also uncut sheets, so we do know Monty either let such go or persons had access to them. I have to wonder if Monty would let such uncuts or partial panels also go to Italy except as possible sales samples.

The first time I ever saw one of these Monty-Clays was in 1996; my friend Bill Deaett (now deceased) had one he gotten off some (undisclosed) contact in Italy, saying he'd been sitting on it for a couple of years before then trying to find out more info about it first. He and I both attended the IBHOF Inductions in NY that year, with exhibitor tables at its Collector Show.

He showed me the card just before we two separately made the trip (and only because he intended to bring the card there to the show anyway, not for sale--but just to see if anyone knew anything about it.) Nobody did, but one big and highly advanced Ali card collector who saw it displayed made an offer for it that Bill said later he simply "couldn't refuse": $1,500.00

Since then, I've seen and tracked at least around (9) different other examples of it myself by chance. Only (3), and not counting Bill's which was NrMt, I would say were in the highest grade conditions. The real and full story completely behind this "Monty Produced" Clay still remains clouded.
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:47 PM
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Default THE MOST Undervalued Ali-Related Card ... ?

Thought I'd share it with you...because I created it.

Deceased (Dec. 2007) Boxing Historian, Hank Kaplan, was a very good friend of mine from the time we first met in Graziano's Lounge in Canastota, NY, at the 1991 IBHOF Induction Events weekend and right up to his passing. He was my primary mentor and key motivator encouraging me to keep working on the Ali Global Card Review project from the first time I mentioned working on it.

He was also the Chairman of the Selection Committee for IBHOF annual inductions and, as such, was not eligible to be nominated for induction himself by anybody else on that committee ... until the end of 2005 when he was talked into stepping down from his Chairmanship position so he could in fact be inducted into the IBHOF the next year, in 2006.

I had made the annual trips to the HOF's inductions for 9 years straight, 1991 to 2000, missed 2001, was there for 2002, then missed the next
three. When I heard Hank himself was being inducted in 2006, there was no way I was going to miss that one. I contacted him early and asked his permission to create a 2006 IBHOF Induction Commemorative card of him, 100 total hand-made, offering to meet him up there early to give him 75 of the 100 I would produced for his own use, my keeping 25 to help cover its production costs. He not only gave me permission, but then sent me the two photographs he would like me to use for it when I mentioned I wanted it to be simple without any text back, just mainly images with minimum face text. Hank's on its front; he is pictured with a young Clay along the ring ropes at the 5th St. Gym, Miami, in Chris Dundee's Gym on the card back.

Hank had an intimate relationship with both Dundee brothers before, during, and after Clay/Ali first came to Miami and turned Pro. He was officially the 5th St. Gym's PR Man and posed Ali for his very first "Cassius Clay" Promotional Cards--one pose of which became the basis for Ali's 1960's Exhibit card.

Of the (25) 2006 Induction Promos I kept of Hank's that year, I made sure to freely distribute about (10) of them to select dealers and exhibitors who also attended that year's IBHOF Collector Show--so that the card would legitimately acquire the providence of being considered in the future to be one of the only true IBHOF Induction Commemorative Promo-Cards that were ever released and distributed during one of the Hall's annual events. I don't really know what Hank did with any of the (75) other examples I gave him the Thursday before his Induction, but knowing him I'm sure he was generous in distributing some during and afterward. He got a real kick and was delighted when he was given them.

I saw one pop up on Ebay.UK a good while back. It auctioned off for a little over $4.50; as I figure it they cost me not just many, many hours to create but ran over twice that (min. $9 apiece) in material-supplies, etc., to do so.

Regardless I was personally involved or not, I think it is fair to nominate this 2006 Hank Kaplan/Ali-Back IBHOF 2006 Induction Promo as possibly being among THE most "undervalued" Ali cards out there today...such is life.
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File Type: jpg Kaplan 2006 IBHOF Promo copy.jpg (45.5 KB, 130 views)
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:31 PM
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i dont think any boxing cards are going to 'explode' cassius clay is probably one of the only ones worth buying maybe, just because he transcends boxing and is into the mainstream consciousness. all the other champions, including old time champions, cards can be had fairly inexpensively compared to their counterparts in baseball.
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  #21  
Old 07-03-2013, 10:18 PM
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Default Cards of value.

I've been collecting boxing for quite some time. The items that will increase in value will be determined by influential marketing more than condition and rareity. I also want to say that I am not an Ali bootlicker like so many. I do not and will not collect any Ali cards because I believe he has done tremendous harm to boxing and the society in general. When I was young and impressionable I thought he was cool. But than I grew up. Just look and listen to his rants and insults to opponents and than tell your kids what a great example of decency he is.
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  #22  
Old 07-03-2013, 11:05 PM
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I agree with much of what Jim says about Ali; his behavior was horrible to Joe Frazier. I have quite a few of his earlier or obscure cards but that is more a reflection of my personal OCD with breadth of collection and history than any regard for him as a person. My personal avatars as a collector are Jim Jeffries, Joe Louis and Benny Leonard, and I will cop to a modern era collection of Lennox Lewis cards and related materials. Probably not worth the paper they're printed on but I did enjoy his career and personality.

I also agree 100% about condition. Who gives a $hit. The key to everything has been [and will be] supply; the number of cards available from many prewar boxing issues remains at a handful or single specimen for a given fighter. Under those circumstances you take whatever you can find. I just added a very rare card to my collection via trade. It is trimmed and has a back paper pull. It is also the only one I have ever seen, so I am not complaining that it is hacked up.

Not sure about the marketing as driving force idea over rarity, though. This is a field in its very early days of organization. Everything Jones [Seconds Out], Hanvey [Boxing Card Digest] and I did/do could crudely be considered marketing, but as encyclopedists it is more about kick-starting the conversation about the boxing card hobby segment as a whole than pushing individual cards to manipulate demand and pricing, which is how I define marketing. I look at my ideal result to be giving collectors the language and metrics to make for an intelligible conversation about boxing cards. That's more akin to basic organization. If a card is rare, my experience is that collectors will want it without a push if they know it exists. We are all completists and obsessives to varying degrees simply by being collectors. I've picked up stuff I never imagined collecting simply because I had to have that particular Jeffries item, for example:

That said, there are some collectors who've approached me in the past obviously trying to put a gloss on a particular issue in the hope that I'd bandwagon their views and they could use my 'blessing' to market the issue into prominence and profit from the outcome. Unfortunately, I tend to investigate things. Makes for some really funny exchanges as they try to get me to opine on the value of an item that hasn't sold, which I don't do unless you want to retain me as counsel at my regular hourly rate, in which case I will spew opinions for as long as your retainer holds out. J/K.

Ali is by no means the only investment out there, btw. Self interest precludes my explaining except to state that Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Sullivan and La Motta are all solid performers, and there are a lot more 'sleeper' items out there but I ain't letting those cats out of their bags until I finish getting mine . I may be dumb but I'm not stupid. My experience in boxing card 'investment' has been that you don't see 'breakout' performers like T206 misprints or rare backs but with the right rare items you will be able to name your price in the long term. There are also a lot more opportunities for finds and lucky breaks than in baseball card collecting. In baseball cards every jackass with a box of 1990s Donruss thinks he's gonna pay for college with it.

In general, from what I can see the boxing card market bottomed out during the fall of 2010 and has been rebounding slowly but surely since then, and has picked up steam in the last six months. The Dreier liquidation, which is still ongoing w/Legendary but not under their names [that Baguer lot in the last Legendary was theirs] was sold into a down and slowly rebounding market, so many of the same cards as Jeff Hull sold went for a lot less. I also think that the sheer accumulated wealth that was returned to the marketplace tended to depress prices. I know that the volume of material meant that I had to triage the offerings and in many cases just decide to chase after one or two lots per auction so as not to bust my budget. I ended up getting most of the top priority items on my list [some by sheer luck in post-auction trades] but pulled out of bidding on lots of other stuff that I'd have pursued hard under normal circumstances. Some of the other collectors I've talked with had much the same experience: they plunged into one or two lots and had to pass on the rest. As those lots are broken down and resold we will see the real market prices emerge.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 07-04-2013 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 07-05-2013, 01:40 PM
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Default Cards of value ...

I agree: Supply and rarity in the long run trumps demand over marketing in general. I also believe that down the road and further into the future this may also depend on which era the rarity originated. Late 1800s, early 1900s, and most pre-war rarities are one thing, today's contemporary card companies' marketing attempts at producing "manufactured rarity" by creating the exact same card single in a 1/1 "Gold" version, (/125) in Silver, (/25) in Blue, and (/10) in a Red version, or however they wish to number and designate them, is on a totally different plane than what the hobby used to think of when contemplating something's rarity. "Manufactured rarity" may or may not have been what Jim had in the back of his mind in eluding to value being connected to marketing. Regardless, in today's hobby it seems to have some affect on collectors when one sees what they're willing to bid on them in auction at different times. I'm not a fan of manufactured rarity myself--unless the specific "rarest" version in the series had something extremely special and unique incorporated into it that its other, higher run versions did not. Leaf's move to embed "Everlast" Logo swatches as the relics used ONLY in most or some of the Gold (1/1) Versions of their 2012 Ali Metal's Event Worn series--is an example of what I do find acceptable for "manufactured rarity." Yet they didn't do that in their first Ali-related set release... all their earlier ones with Everlast-Logo swatches were not of the Gold (1/1) version but in the Silver (/20) and some (/60) Bronzes. Manufactured Rarity nevertheless seems to be the dish-of-the-day now across most of the sports card industry.

How do you others feel about those "manufactured rarities" of today?

A note to Jim: Ali "Bootlickers" is offensive, since my post and opinions on some of his cards was just before that statement. If you had a chance to read my earlier posts elsewhere about needing an Ali Panini Valida Back, it offered that my long standing, favorite fighter happened to be Jack Dempsey, and I had completed a Global Card Review on Dempsey's issues first that was rejected by book publishers as not having a big enough audience; their suggesting doing one on Ali instead--so I've been working on that ever since. Deep in the middle of the Ali project as I am, I thought to share with others some of what was known or had been discovered while doing it as well as my opinion of which ones I liked best. A lot of people don't like Ali for various reasons, some mentioned, and that's anybody's right. Still, it is obvious that a whole lot more people around the world undeniably do. I don't dislike anyone based on whether or not they do or don't like him. I always listen and give everyone an equal opportunity to express personal opinions, pro-or-con, as to why without putting them down for it.

Myself, I've been collecting boxing for a long time, too, starting when I first was discharged from the Marines in 1970, Vietnam Era, due to service-connected medical injuries. I started to include collecting Ali's cards around the late 1980s, and I think I was already pretty much "grown up" by then. Even as far as the military goes, I was the type of person who held nothing against anybody else who opposed or didn't want to serve during my same period. I saw it as a personal choice that I personally made in enlisting in the Marine Airwing following a time in university studies, and I held nothing personal against anybody who didn't personally want to do the same thing; privately, I was opposed to the draft as well and believed only those who wanted to serve were the ones I wanted by my side as I served. I never put anyone down or insulted them for not wanting to, including Ali. Whether you do or do not like or collect Ali, it certainly shouldn't be any basis to put anybody else who may feel differently down for doing so. It's a free world.

Last edited by Box-Cards; 07-05-2013 at 02:11 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #24  
Old 07-05-2013, 05:10 PM
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Daniel, I hope you didn't take my agreement w/Jim as agreement with the political sentiments. I happen to agree with Ali's stance on Vietnam and ultimately he was proven correct as a matter of law w/r/t his status as conscientious objector. My agreement as to Ali is based on his treatment of others in his life, specifically Joe Frazier. I realize that some trash talk is inevitable in gladiatorial sports but Ali went too far with it, especially in the run-up to Manila, and I just don't like the man. I'm also a bit nonplussed by the Ali hagiographers. He was the best of the group in the greatest group of heavyweights to be active at the same time but not by that much: he lost to Frazier and barely beat Frazier in the rubber match; it was literally Futch stopping Frazier before Ali quit on his stool. Norton busted him up in one fight and Ali barely eked out victory the others.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 07-06-2013 at 11:58 AM.
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  #25  
Old 07-05-2013, 10:14 PM
clamendo clamendo is offline
Carl Lamendola
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It really quite simple, I used to collect boxing and
I take a peek here once and a while. Ali cards will always be "undervalued" because many people don't like him and feel he was actually a coward.
Maybe his cards would have been worth more
If he actually would have gone to Vietnam and fought
Along side of Jim. Maybe he could have taken some
Shrapnel and he would have had not only
A championship belt but the. purple heart like Jim recieved.
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  #26  
Old 07-06-2013, 12:36 AM
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Daniel E.
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Default We're in agreement...

I get what you're both saying and feel the same for the most part, especially Adam. I have my own favorite boxers (Marvin Hagler among them) and others I don't care for especially when they're out of the ring.

The thing with me, I suspend either type of prejudice whenever any fighter steps into the ring and judge them and their performance by what happens there, regardless. In my own opinion, having watched all 3 Ali/Norton bouts a number of repeat times, I was honest in mentioning to Ken at his IBHOF Inductions that "in my opinion" he'd never lost to Ali; it looked like he'd won all 3 fights in their end. Jimmy Young was another I thought outpointed Ali but didn't win...they took it away from him because of his tactics repeatedly sticking his head through the ropes anytime Ali started to get off on him.

Frazier beat him outright in their first and gave him hell in another-- still, overall Ali was the best of his era (regardless of by what degree.) That was an era that arguably included the best group of heavyweights all at once in history. Yes, the crap he said to Frazier (and how he treated Patterson) went too far; made Frazier carry the scar for life and hate him to the end.

It seems hard to say Ali didn't have a championship heart in the ring throughout his entire career, though; he got up from Frazier's hook when that hook was knocking everyone else out; went the distance with Berbick at the end when he never should have been in the ring in the first place; and took his worse beating from Holmes, on his feet, and kept coming out until they finally stopped it. He faced Foreman, Shavers, and Liston twice (I know the controversy so let's not debate Liston, too); 3 of the most feared punchers of any time or era. What he did, said, or didn't do outside the ring is one thing; for me, boxing has always been my only sport and I've always judged a fighter by what he did in the ring, not outside it.

Ali was no coward in or out of the ring. His stand on not serving during the Vietnam Conflict (it never was declared an official "war" whereas China warned that, if we declared so, they'd enter it against us)---took as much courage, if not more than if he accepted his draft--being stripped of his title and denied a license to box afterward. He accepted the repercussions that followed and still kept his beliefs on his own terms. A lot of us who did serve didn't like it, and still don't like him for it, but that doesn't necessarily make him a "coward" just because he went a different path than us others.

I also don't believe that specific reason is any primary reason for his cards being undervalued. For every person who won't collect him because of it there are a dozen who do for other reasons. Maybe some of that popularity IS related to "marketing" and that was what Jim was talking about. Nevertheless, his cards out-price most all other boxers' issues produced during the same period as well as a lot of earlier era ones.

Isn't that what we were talking about here, and cards-in-general what this forums is supposed to be about covering, politics-religion aside?
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  #27  
Old 07-06-2013, 10:10 AM
nameless nameless is offline
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Default Military Peopl

A lot of boxing collectors, myself included were in the military. Cool I think, whimpy baseball people

Last edited by nameless; 07-06-2013 at 11:25 AM.
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  #28  
Old 07-06-2013, 11:52 AM
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Candidly, I think most Ali cards are overvalued based on availability. There are many that are legitimately scarce and deserve a high valuation but there are a lot of Ali cards from "mainstream" issues of the era that carry a substantial premium over equally available cards from the same issues of the other great heavies of the era. To me he is kind of like Mantle in that regard. As for fighting rep, I rate him right under Louis, up there with Dempsey and the other ATGs. I just don't feel any warm fuzzies over the man himself and therefore don't actively pursue his cards and memorabilia other than within the historical context of the cards I do collect. If I'm gonna collect a fighter I really have to like him, hence my pursuit of Jeffries, Louis and Leonard stuff.

And the modern/manufactured rarity cards, don't even get me started, ugh. Horrible stuff IMHO, been poison to modern baseball card collecting, and infects and kills every modern boxing issue starting w/the 1996 Ringside. I was really a booster of the 2010 Ringside issue when it came out a few years ago from the Sport King revivalists but geez, what a fiasco that has been. Two and out, and no wonder. No one bothers with the base sets--just as I suspected would be the case as I wrote on my blog after the 2010 National ["As for the base product, my feeling is that if collectors are going to basically throw away the base cards, the set is a failure"]--and the parallels are stupid things to 'invest' in over the long term, frankly. Not saying don't buy them if you like and enjoy them, but don't count on a black onyx set paying your kid's college tuition, either, especially with no new annual issues from the mfg to maintain collector interest. Lots of 1990s baseball 'investors' learned that the hard way. There was a real chance there to make a product that would fit well with contemporary boxing and have a lifespan--take over from the Brown's issues--but they blew it by weighting the issue to [yawn] the same old-timers as were in Kayo and AW in 1991. Boring then and boring now. About all I bother with from the two Ringside issues are the autographed cards of contemporary guys and I just sit and wait for them to come up at low prices, which they do. Picked up Calzaghe, Barrera, Glen Johnson, Barkley, and a few others at bottom feeder prices. And the artwork can be so fugly and cartoonish on some of those that I may have a friend who does custom cards use the autographs as cuts to make nicer cards out of them.

What was the question?
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 07-06-2013 at 12:03 PM.
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  #29  
Old 07-06-2013, 07:32 PM
nameless nameless is offline
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Default hehe

I know there are a handful of people out there trying to get the Onyx cards. And the two I picked up are of modern icons, love them or hate them. Got them for less than $40 each and am getting retarded high offers. Not counting on them to pay for anyone's college but hell I did well on these. Mantle, Ali and Tyson will always go for high premiums. Bottom line.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:36 PM
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Default Red Sun

I feel that the Red Sun issue is one of the coolest and one of the most undervalued versus other things on the market in the 20th century. For 19th century, I most like Lorriards Mechanics.

Al
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  #31  
Old 09-08-2013, 12:30 AM
nameless nameless is offline
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Default 2010 Ringside

3 years later...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321198534130...84.m1586.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321198534897...84.m1586.l2649
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  #32  
Old 09-08-2013, 08:23 AM
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Yeah, there's definitely a collecting base for the SPs, which I was wrong on [though every time I try to sell one I get diddly-squat for it]. Interesting how the cards you flagged are Mayweather [the #1 PFP today] and Tyson [very current news for his theatrical show]; what are prices like on the has-beens? There's also an active market for the autographed cards though the prices on them can be all over the map. The base cards sell for less than the average cost of purchasing them NIB, and a lot of the memorabilia cards still sell for peanuts.

If only Ringside had done a nice contemporary boxers issue...
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 09-08-2013 at 08:29 AM.
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  #33  
Old 09-08-2013, 12:13 PM
nameless nameless is offline
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Default This is a FAD

The no body's fetch 75 - 125. I think this is a fad. These cards wont be worth the $40 I paid in a few years. Mayweather has a fight next weekend. Anyways I have a nice J.P Clow n175. Not sure if I wanna trade it. Got anything?
-John
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