10s

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Lately I have had fun buying some of my favorite 80s stars in PSA 9. This is strictly for fun. I don't have any delusions of grandeur.

There are a few cards that I have contemplated purchasing in grade 10. The thread on the 2011 Update Trout made me wonder something about PSA (or whatever TPGer) 10s. How many years would you have to go back before finding 10s was at least a somewhat significant achievement? I have never paid much attention to grading or pop reports. I see cards such as the PSA 10 Donruss and Upper Deck Griffey rookies continue to climb. I have longed snickered a little at how many of those cards are out there, but in looking on Ebay and other places I see Griffeys for sale, I notice that compared to the number of 9s available, the 10s are fewer. I am not suggesting rarity or anything close to that by any means, but maybe 30 years out (that sounds weird to say) 10s aren't just super easy to obtain.

So, how far back do you think you have to go before 10s are at least somewhat "tough?"

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[swarmee]

This thread may be of interest to you:
https://forums.collectors.com/discus...ss-psa-10-sets

Caveat: He has yet to send any card for grading. But he's working on approximately 2,000 cards per year for 10 years at a cost of $8/each when all is said and done. So I have my doubts any will. But at least he's documenting the process of opening so many junk wax boxes for us to learn from.

[Bagwell-1994]

I think PSA 10's are generally difficult to obtain even in very recent modern cards. Even "brand" new 2017/2018 cards more often will come back as 9's than 10's (from all of the PSA submission return videos I've watched on youtube recently).

IMO, it's a big racket. A card can be older or newer and be "virtually perfect" as far as you can see with your eye and it could come back as an 8/9/10 and PSA gives no explanation as to WHY or HOW the card was graded what it was, it simply receives the grade it does. Hence, why so many folks probably break the cases and resubmit, hoping for a higher grade based on a different opinion of a different individual who happens to be grading the card.

But generally speaking, PSA has somewhat of a monopoly, or at lesser extent, a stronghold over the sports card market, so their brand tends to maintain a higher resale value.

Due to the general rarity of any card being graded a "PSA 10", it will usually command CONSIDERABLY more than a PSA 9 of the same card. So, if you can get any card in PSA 10 for a reasonable price, do it, because their prices will often become UNREASONABLE later down the road, LOL! But hall of fame rookie cards from the 1980's and back (generally speaking) begin to become so expensive (and so overpriced on Ebay) that I usually settle for a 9, in many cases.

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[Peter_Spaeth]

If a 10 is available for 150 or less of a card I want, I will usually pay up for the 10. And on more important cards such as Griffey or Trout I will buy the 10 regardless. But there's probably no right answer.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If a 10 is available for 150 or less of a card I want, I will usually pay up for the 10. And on more important cards such as Griffey or Trout I will buy the 10 regardless. But there's probably no right answer.

No, there's probably not a right answer. It is highly individual, I suppose. I am focusing on the 80s, and I am in total agreement with you regarding Griffey and 10s. I am trying to decide if anyone else fits into that territory?

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[Peter_Spaeth]

for me Clemens and maddux

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

for me Clemens and maddux

I don't disagree with those choices. I might add Bonds and Frank Thomas. I have a ton of purely sentimental choices as well, but there has to be a line somewhere.

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[conor912]

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardguy

Lately I have had fun buying some of my favorite 80s stars in PSA 9. This is strictly for fun. I don't have any delusions of grandeur.

There are a few cards that I have contemplated purchasing in grade 10. The thread on the 2011 Update Trout made me wonder something about PSA (or whatever TPGer) 10s. How many years would you have to go back before finding 10s was at least a somewhat significant achievement? I have never paid much attention to grading or pop reports. I see cards such as the PSA 10 Donruss and Upper Deck Griffey rookies continue to climb. I have longed snickered a little at how many of those cards are out there, but in looking on Ebay and other places I see Griffeys for sale, I notice that compared to the number of 9s available, the 10s are fewer. I am not suggesting rarity or anything close to that by any means, but maybe 30 years out (that sounds weird to say) 10s aren't just super easy to obtain.

So, how far back do you think you have to go before 10s are at least somewhat "tough?"

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Robert, I think like you. I buy 9s and crack them. Frankly, a 9 usually looks perfect to me.... people don't typically buy 10s for fun, they buy them as investments.

I think Bagwell said it well...if you can get a 10 at a reasonable price, it's usually a good idea to grab it, particularly of a RC....but that means stomaching the purchase price to begin with.

[BruceinGa]

A friend showed my his dad's card collection, consisting of mainly 1990-93 Topps, Score, UD etc. There was one opened 1986 Topps set.
I looked at PSA's pop report and there were about 20 commons from that year that didn't have a 10 graded.
I got to thinking about pulling these 20 and submitting them to psa in hopes of a maybe a 10 or two.
After a couple of days thinking about that I decided not to. Maybe I'll just go back to the casino.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by conor912

Robert, I think like you. I buy 9s and crack them. Frankly, a 9 usually looks perfect to me.... people don't typically buy 10s for fun, they buy them as investments.



I think Bagwell said it well...if you can get a 10 at a reasonable price, it's usually a good idea to grab it, particularly of a RC....but that means stomaching the purchase price to begin with.

Yes, I have had fun buying some 80s cards graded 9. Like I said in the OP, it is just fun and usually inexpensive. In a real departure for me, I actually purchased a couple of 10s. I have never even contemplated that before. It doesn't hurt that I genuinely like the cards that I bought...even though I bought with an eye toward the long-term, there was still a part of me that just likes them that much. The real challenge for me now is to not ruin my 80s fun by thinking I need more 10s of other cards. I have been having inexpensive, nostalgic fun.

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[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by BruceinGa

A friend showed my his dad's card collection, consisting of mainly 1990-93 Topps, Score, UD etc. There was one opened 1986 Topps set.

I looked at PSA's pop report and there were about 20 commons from that year that didn't have a 10 graded.

I got to thinking about pulling these 20 and submitting them to psa in hopes of a maybe a 10 or two.

After a couple of days thinking about that I decided not to. Maybe I'll just go back to the casino.

You never know, it could be worth your time. For example, the 1988 Donruss Rookies are notoriously hard to find in 10 because of the way they were wrapped and displayed. I saw a PSA 10 Sabo rookie from that set top the $50 mark the other night.

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[stlcardsfan]

Originally Posted by Bagwell-1994

I think PSA 10's are generally difficult to obtain even in very recent modern cards. Even "brand" new 2017/2018 cards more often will come back as 9's than 10's (from all of the PSA submission return videos I've watched on youtube recently).

IMO, it's a big racket. A card can be older or newer and be "virtually perfect" as far as you can see with your eye and it could come back as an 8/9/10 and PSA gives no explanation as to WHY or HOW the card was graded what it was, it simply receives the grade it does. Hence, why so many folks probably break the cases and resubmit, hoping for a higher grade based on a different opinion of a different individual who happens to be grading the card.

But generally speaking, PSA has somewhat of a monopoly, or at lesser extent, a stronghold over the sports card market, so their brand tends to maintain a higher resale value.

Due to the general rarity of any card being graded a "PSA 10", it will usually command CONSIDERABLY more than a PSA 9 of the same card. So, if you can get any card in PSA 10 for a reasonable price, do it, because their prices will often become UNREASONABLE later down the road, LOL! But hall of fame rookie cards from the 1980's and back (generally speaking) begin to become so expensive (and so overpriced on Ebay) that I usually settle for a 9, in many cases.

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This is an excellent point. I also collect comic books and the main grading company (CGC) issues "grader notes" with each book they grade, which lists the flaws with the book and justifies the grade. Well, you have to pay $10 to get them but at least they are available. Would be nice if this was also available with card grading.

[ToddW.]

I can provide some insight as I have done this very thing. PSA 10s are available from about 1984 until the mid-2000s at a relatively low cost (with a few exceptions, (91 Griffey, Jeter (exploding), Riveria). Before that they are cost prohibitive (in my view). And after that point the reduced quantities, SP and SSP issues arise which make some of the new ones much more expensive, even for the base cards. I only want HOF RC so I am very limited. On some of the newest cards I have been trying to get a strong BGS 9.5 and converting them -- as the cost savings is worth it if it works. Will report back on my luck on that last one.

[Bagwell-1994]

Originally Posted by stlcardsfan

This is an excellent point. I also collect comic books and the main grading company (CGC) issues "grader notes" with each book they grade, which lists the flaws with the book and justifies the grade. Well, you have to pay $10 to get them but at least they are available. Would be nice if this was also available with card grading.

I wonder if the reason they do not provide a definitive description about how a card received the grade it did, is purely to avoid scrutiny or being proven wrong? Possible legal/reputational ramifications? So...they do their secretive inspection and just slap a number on it and leave it up to the imagination of the customers LOL

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[steve B]

They've quietly gone to mechanical grading. This saves costs, and makes for more uniformity.

I got a pic of the device smuggled out by an operative who unfortunately ran into a bit of trouble in Florida recently.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Bagwell-1994

I wonder if the reason they do not provide a definitive description about how a card received the grade it did, is purely to avoid scrutiny or being proven wrong? Possible legal/reputational ramifications? So...they do their secretive inspection and just slap a number on it and leave it up to the imagination of the customers LOL

PSA will point out the flaws if you send the card in for review. Beckett used to provide 4 subgrades, but got away from that model for vintage and is trying to phase it out on modern (by making it much more expensive), while SGC plans to release their grading notes online so you can see why the card graded what it did.

[Bagwell-1994]

Originally Posted by swarmee

PSA will point out the flaws if you send the card in for review. Beckett used to provide 4 subgrades, but got away from that model for vintage and is trying to phase it out on modern (by making it much more expensive), while SGC plans to release their grading notes online so you can see why the card graded what it did.

Are you saying they have a separate service where they just review? I just submitted 18 cards for grading for my first time ever. A 1958 Hank Aaron came back "altered" but no further info. A 1985 Topps McGwire came back "Authentic?" and also not slabbed with no additional info. A 2001 SP Authentic Pujols rookie came back a 6 where was graded a 9 by another grader. A 2003 Robinson Cano RC came back a 4! LOL! Oops..

Granted I'm pretty new the hobby and have a lot to learn, especially concerning submitting cards for grading. But, there wasn't a single explanation as to why any of my cards received the grade (or lack thereof) they did. I submitted several 2003/2005 rookie cards which came back 8 when I believed they were 9's/maybe 10's and I submitted a 1999 Bowman C.C. Sabathia rookie which I thought was an 8/9 at best due to some very slight roughing at edges, it came back Gem MT 10!!

How do you go about getting PSA to quantify/qualify their grades with an explanation? Also, do you recommend a resource that goes into great detail about how to assess cards so I can learn to become a better grader on my own?

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[swarmee]

Well, the PSA scale is explained really well here:
https://www.psacard.com/resources/gr...andards/#cards

As to ?AUTHCTY, that's their term for "FAKE" and it is likely done to stay on the side of not getting sued if they happen to deem it fake and it is later found to be real.

To your other ones, I'd have to see them. But the one with the 4 likely has a light surface crease visible on both sides. Only seen on the front can get a 5, only seen on the back can get a 6.

But yes, you can review the card for a higher grade. If it "bumps", they reslab it with a higher grade. If it doesn't, they mark the damaged areas with a sticky note and arrows. Costs the same as a regular submission. Sometimes I'll use my 15 freebies for renewing my subscription to review cards where a bumped grade increases the value well enough. Maybe there is enough interest that the next time the board does a bulk submission, we could also submit PSA graded cards for review as well.