Dave & Adam's Card World ...

[npa589]

Thanks for the input everyone!

[t206hound]

There are lots of retailers that concurrently list inventory on ebay as well as their own website or store front. There's always the chance that you can have buyers for a single item from multiple entry points. The seller has to choose which one he deals with first. Most of the time I would suspect that the seller would use the "first one wins" option. In this case, however, its a sticky wicket because it's a hassle to undo an ebay transaction. Had the seller been able to mark the item as sold on ebay before the BIN, it wouldn't have been an issue.

In a perfect world, the inventories would be tied together. I don't think that this is generally the case however.

Side note, this seller had several Cycles and Sovereigns listed without back scans or an indication of what series back they were. I asked a question to the seller in each instance within minutes of the item being listed and just now got responses that the items were sold. Win some/lose some.

[atx840]

Similar situation that ended up in a refund for a PSA 5 $75 that I really needed for my set. 2 months and haven't seen another : (

Part of the whole Internet buying vs store dealer/show. Oh well.

[npa589]

Yea, all of them are 350s, because I believe none of the cards listed were ever even printed in the 460s. That goes for the Cycles, I didn't check for the Sovereign, but I believe it applies to them as well.

[npa589]

You're definitely right Chris.

I really wanted that Steamer Sovereign and Bob Hall. Maybe that's why I bought them before the other people...! Hahaha...

A simple response to the negative of "had already sold on our store site when customer bought on eBay. Didn't take it off eBay in time. refund sent immediately with a dollar extra."

People would understand that.

[Big Ben]

Interesting to read this thread. I had a transaction with this company about a year ago with no problems. (not a t206 transaction though)

[vintagetoppsguy]

Typical DACW MO if you ask me. I had just the opposite situation happen. I bought a 1961 Topps Ernie Banks AS high number on eBay (BIN), paid right away and then a couple of days later they refunded my money with a note that said they had sold the card in their on-line store a few days prior. They did offer me $5 off my next pruchase, but I would much rather had the card as I needed it for my set. I should have left them a negative, but I decided against it.

[usernamealreadytaken]

I nabbed a couple of the t206 Cycles. I would have preferred back scans but couldn't risk missing the cards at those prices.

[npa589]

Were you the one that bought the Bob Hall and the Steamer Flanagan?

[JamesGallo]

IMO thats a cop out. The cards were sold before they were sold on ebay and npa589 should get the cards. They have a work force so as soon as something is processed it should be removed from all other places and this wasn't.

You have two options, cancel the whole order and not deal with them, or suck it up take the cards you got and not deal with them.

If your ok with them giving you some discount or what not that is fine too.

The end result either way would be a bad taste in my mouth for a company that I had thought had a good reputation....

James G

[npa589]

Absolutely right James, thanks for your input.

It's definitely frustrating, mostly because it emits that "arrogance stink" similar to that of politicians. It's like "This one thing really won't hurt us, so who cares - let the eBay purchaser have them since we don't want the negative feedback. That negative feedback is more visible to the public."

Like I said though - I'm willing to delete every thing I've said on NET54 if they make the right decision here. I sent a detailed email to their service department 2 hours ago and havent received a response yet.

If they don't make the right decision, or satisfy me with not having the cards when I actually purchased them...then they can count on more "respectful criticism" for a long time to come, in addition to never gaining my business again.

I've boycotted the best Chinese restaurant in town simply because they refused to give me my complimentary broccoli promised in an advertisement. lol.......now that's a funny story.

Like in many situations, true honesty, true professionalism is becoming more and more difficult to come by.

[npa589]

I just sent them another e-mail attaching this thread, not as a threat - but simply showing them that this stuff really shouldn't happen anymore.

It's terrible business.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by npa589

Absolutely right James, thanks for your input.

It's definitely frustrating, mostly because it emits that "arrogance stink" similar to that of politicians. It's like "This one thing really won't hurt us, so who cares - let the eBay purchaser have them since we don't want the negative feedback. That negative feedback is more visible to the public."

Like I said though - I'm willing to delete every thing I've said on NET54 if they make the right decision here. I sent a detailed email to their service department 2 hours ago and havent received a response yet.

If they don't make the right decision, or satisfy me with not having the cards when I actually purchased them...then they can count on more "respectful criticism" for a long time to come, in addition to never gaining my business again.

I've boycotted the best Chinese restaurant in town simply because they refused to give me my complimentary broccoli promised in an advertisement. lol.......now that's a funny story.

Like in many situations, true honesty, true professionalism is becoming more and more difficult to come by.

Curious. What would the right decision be?

It sounds like they gave you a full refund, and quickly.

What else do you want from them?

[bobbyw8469]

All I can say is WOW. I have never had any dealings with them, but this definitely makes me take them with a grain of salt now.....

[chris6net]

I haven,t bought anything from them in a while but now I never will. I am proabably going to drive down to the National if my schedule permits it and I believe they set up there. If they are set up I intend to mention it to them just to see what type of spin they put on it. CN

[Big Ben]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Curious. What would the right decision be?

It sounds like they gave you a full refund, and quickly.

What else do you want from them?

+1

Frustrating yes.
Maybe the company should offer you a discount if you
chose to do business with them again. Other than that, if you feel that strongly about the situation, I would move on and if so inclined take business elsewhere.

jmho

[npa589]

I'd like the cards that I purchased from them because I desire the cards I purchased from them? That's why I put the money down and sent it to them, because I actually wanted the cards?

Someone else also wanted 2 of the cards, but made the decision to buy them after I had literally and officially already purchased them.

The right decision would be to take the negative feedback from the buyer on eBay (if they even choose to leave negative feedback) and learn that they shouldn't list them on both sites if they aren't punctual enough to handle it - which in this case, they were not.

By me buying the cards on their site before they were purchased on another site, and then not being able to keep those cards - it's really communicating to present and future buyers that "The cards on this site are "KIND OF" for sale."

I don't think I'm asking too much here.

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Curious. What would the right decision be?

It sounds like they gave you a full refund, and quickly.

What else do you want from them?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by npa589

I'd like the cards that I purchased from them because I desire the cards I purchased from them? That's why I put the money down and sent it to them, because I actually wanted the cards?

Someone else also wanted 2 of the cards, but made the decision to buy them after I had literally and officially already purchased them.

The right decision would be to take the negative feedback from the buyer on eBay (if they even choose to leave negative feedback) and learn that they shouldn't list them on both sites if they aren't punctual enough to handle it - which in this case, they were not.

By me buying the cards on their site before they were purchased on another site, and then not being able to keep those cards - it's really communicating to present and future buyers that "The cards on this site are "KIND OF" for sale."

I don't think I'm asking too much here.

They should "take" the negative, because they don't make updates to their on-line store, on a minute by minute basis?

Do you know the repercussions of negatives and trashed DSR scores on Ebay from a single buyer can potentially cost a seller hundreds, if not thousands of $'s in extra fees?

I could see if this was an auction, it wasn't. IMO they have a right to sell to whomever they want in a retail setting.

Why didn't you buy on Ebay to begin with if you had the chance?

You already said you turned down a counter offer they made to you on Ebay.

[npa589]

I turned down a counteroffer that was higher than the price on their store. How silly of me, I should have paid more for the same card.

Do you know the repercussions of beginning to build a bad reputation with many of the buyers who are making the quick purchases of these cards, e.g. users on NET54?

They do have the right to sell to whomever, but not whenever. Is a card yours once you purchase it, or when you receive it? If it's the latter, then why would anyone ever have to send someone a card that they purchased?

[M's_Fan]

I sympathize with the card dealer on this one. I'm guessing they would much rather have sold the card to you and avoided paying the seller's fees from the eBay sale, but eBay's policies made it very difficult for them to back out of the eBay sale.

Card dealers are mom and pop shoe-string operations, many of them barely make a profit and its mainly a labor of love for the dealer. I understand their need to dual list their cards on their site and on eBay, and I don't expect them to be lightning fast with pulling a card off the other listing when it sold. What if the dealer was at his kid's baseball game or whatever, two hours isn't much time at all to be away from you computer!

Sure that would be nice if dealers employed someone to always be at a computer to prevent this, or had sophisticated software that would do it automatically, but c'mon, give em' a break, there are already an endangered species...

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by npa589

I turned down a counteroffer that was higher than the price on their store. How silly of me, I should have paid more for the same card.

Do you know the repercussions of beginning to build a bad reputation with many of the buyers who are making the quick purchases of these cards, e.g. users on NET54?

They do have the right to sell to whomever, but not whenever. Is a card yours once you purchase it, or when you receive it? If it's the latter, then why would anyone ever have to send someone a card that they purchased?

So the game becomes "sell me the card or I'll trash your name on NET 54"?




What if one of the Ebay buyers is also a NET 54 member?

For not taking it off Ebay quick enough and selling to you instead, they now get a NET54 thread in their honor, negatives, trashed DSR scores..........and the same headaches.


For the record I don't have anything to do with Dave & Adams Card World and have never bought from them as far as I can remember.

I just find this whole thing heavy-handed and kind of odd.

It seems their only crime here is having a card that two people wanted at approximately the same time, and having to make a decision which purchase to follow through on that would hurt their business the least.

I remember the good old days when you could just say "Oh, I'm sorry, it's sold", and people would go on with their lives.

[npa589]

This is a much more reasonable argument to make. Those are all things I've thought about.

They have 55 people working for this company, and there are people at the computers constantly.

I've spoken with the owner now, and had a good conversation. By tomorrow I'll see if they prove they're one of the best in an endangered business.

Originally Posted by M's_Fan

I sympathize with the card dealer on this one. I'm guessing they would much rather have sold the card to you and avoided paying the seller's fees from the eBay sale, but eBay's policies made it very difficult for them to back out of the eBay sale.

Card dealers are mom and pop shoe-string operations, many of them barely make a profit and its mainly a labor of love for the dealer. I understand their need to dual list their cards on their site and on eBay, and I don't expect them to be lightning fast with pulling a card off the other listing when it sold. What if the dealer was at his kid's baseball game or whatever, two hours isn't much time at all to be away from you computer!

Sure that would be nice if dealers employed someone to always be at a computer to prevent this, or had sophisticated software that would do it automatically, but c'mon, give em' a break, there are already an endangered species...

[LanceRoten]

I've never dealt with Dave and Adams. Few months back while I was still on Ebay I bought a couple of cards from the 4SharpCorners website and noticed on EBAY that the cards I purchased were immediately removed from their Ebay store. I thought that was pretty good business. As for leaving negative feedback if I got a full refund there's no way morally that I could leave negative feedback. Not in my nature, but, everybody's diff...

[npa589]

Man Dave, I don't think you're getting it.

The "Oh, I'm sorry, it's sold" doesn't work because it wasn't sold when i bought it. It was technically sold after I bought it. That "Oh, I'm sorry, it's sold" statement should have went to the buyer that bought it after me.

I'm not trashing the name, nor the company. I think that people who do purchase from them, and people who wish to purchase from them in the future would like to have this information in their pocket.

Read the very first statement I posted. I stated that I would gladly delete everything I wrote if the situation was rectified correctly. My definition of "correct" would be fulfilled by many different scenarios.


...."sell me the card or I'll trash your name on NET 54"?


------They did sell me the card! C'mon Dave! I'm not battling you here, but I think you're missing the point!


If the website "www.dacardworld.com" for the company "Dave & Adam's Card World" does not take precedence over the connection of the website "www.ebay.com" to the company of "Dave & Adam's Card World" - then I guess I need to start buying things at Kohls when I want to buy something at Walmart.

[t206hound]

Shame on them for listing a card at a reasonable BIN price... see what trouble that gets you into

[alanu]

At a minimum, I think they should state on their website that ebay bids may take priority over website purchases as their items are listed in both places.

If they don't have such a disclaimer, they should honor purchases in the order they are processed and unfortunately, it might result in negative feedback on ebay.

[npa589]

Seriously! Heh heh. I was checking back and forth on eBay to see if they had been removed. I had a feeling it would happen.

Originally Posted by t206hound

Shame on them for listing a card at a reasonable BIN price... see what trouble that gets you into

[npa589]

Great point.

Originally Posted by alanu

At a minimum, I think they should state on their website that ebay bids may take priority over website purchases as their items are listed in both places.

If they don't have such a disclaimer, they should honor purchases in the order they are processed and unfortunately, it might result in negative feedback on ebay.

[dherm360]

I have only had positive dealings with Dave and Adams, purchased 15-20 times never an issue.

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by npa589

The "Oh, I'm sorry, it's sold" doesn't work because it wasn't sold when i bought it. It was technically sold after I bought it. That "Oh, I'm sorry, it's sold" statement should have went to the buyer that bought it after me.

Technically you "ordered" the card; once it was determined that it was no longer "in stock" your funds were returned and your "order" was cancelled.

purchase: Acquire (something) by paying for it;
order: Request (something) to be made, supplied, or served

[npa589]

If one of the buyers was a NET54 member, I couldn't care less. Congrats to them for buying a card at a good price. Whoever it was accepted a BIN price of 56$ for one of them and I think 51$ for the other. The cards were 50$ and 45$ on the website. I was sent the same counteroffers, and almost definitely saw the offer before the other buyer did. When I saw the counteroffer, since I knew what the prices already were on the site - I went to the site and bought the cards.

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

What if one of the Ebay buyers is also a NET 54 member?

[npa589]

Payment had been sent through Paypal, I got an order confirmation. The invoice I got was to pay for them, and the order confirmation was sent once the payment went through. Since eBay purchases go through PayPal as well, I purchased the card before the other buyer did.

Also, I assume "in stock" would probably more apply to their store website than to ebay's website.

Originally Posted by t206hound

Technically you "ordered" the card; once it was determined that it was no longer "in stock" your funds were returned and your "order" was cancelled.

purchase: Acquire (something) by paying for it;
order: Request (something) to be made, supplied, or served

[wake.up.the.echoes]

Doesn't Bob_Snyder belong to this board? I am not sure if he has seen/posted in this thread, but he might be one to ask about this situation.

[npa589]

I got an e-mail from Bob, nice guy. I also talked with Adam who was great to communicate with as well.

I'm just having fun arguing with people now. No hard feelings nor am I very upset, I just enjoy a good argument!

Originally Posted by wake.up.the.echoes

Doesn't Bob_Snyder belong to this board? I am not sure if he has seen/posted in this thread, but he might be one to ask about this situation.

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by npa589

Payment had been sent through Paypal, I got an order confirmation. The invoice I got was to pay for them, and the order confirmation was sent once the payment went through. Since eBay purchases go through PayPal as well, I purchased the card before the other buyer did.

Also, I assume "in stock" would probably more apply to their store website than to ebay's website.

Purchase implies "acquisition" and since you didn't acquire (gain possession of) the card, you didn't purchase it. And your response even states that you received an "order confirmation," not a "purchase confirmation." Semantics, I know, but important nonetheless.

[wake.up.the.echoes]

Adam is a heck of a guy. Adam (along with Dave) have built a great business from the ground up. Nothing but positive things to say about them. I don't know Bob, but I am glad you guys have spoken. With LCS (local card shops) drying up, I didn't want to see one of the few remaining get completely trashed without hearing both sides. Glad you guys worked it out.

[deadballera]

never had a problem with them in some previous purchases. As mentioned before, it sounds like multiple buyers wanted the same cards minutes from each other from different websites ( ebay and store website).


on a side note.... someone got a good deal in the Broadleaf graded card at $300.

[npa589]

Subjective semantics at that...

Maybe we should start paying after we've received the card?

As far as I'm concerned, when I pay someone for a card - I'm the new owner. The next step is that they ship it to the new owner.


I'm kind of tired of arguing now, like Forrest Gump when he just stops running.

You make a good point t206hound, but like I said - they are subjective semantics, not universally defined. Again - even the fact that I feel that they are subjective is subjective.

Originally Posted by t206hound

Purchase implies "acquisition" and since you didn't acquire (gain possession of) the card, you didn't purchase it. And your response even states that you received an "order confirmation," not a "purchase confirmation." Semantics, I know, but important nonetheless.

[Leon]

It seems as though everything is getting worked out. I just had a nice chat with Shawn, their director of marketing. Seemed like a nice guy to me....He might post on this thread too as he is registering for the board......regards

[npa589]

Absolutely, I have a feeling that they may be hiring a company that syncs dacardworld.com with any other online retailer that they choose to list their cards on.

There are companies that sync, DACW just hasn't chosen to go down that road. I think it's clear that they should, and I assume that they will.

Originally Posted by wake.up.the.echoes

Adam is a heck of a guy. Adam (along with Dave) have built a great business from the ground up. Nothing but positive things to say about them. I don't know Bob, but I am glad you guys have spoken. With LCS (local card shops) drying up, I didn't want to see one of the few remaining get completely trashed without hearing both sides. Glad you guys worked it out.

[npa589]

It definitely is. I can't wait until it has. Once it has - I will literally change everything I have written on here to advertisements heralding their customer service, and complimenting the professionalism of Adam, Dave, Bob, and the entire company as a whole.

Originally Posted by Leon

It seems as though everything is getting worked out. I just had a nice chat with Shawn, their director of marketing. Seemed like a nice guy to me....He might post on this thread too as he is registering for the board......regards

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by t206hound

Technically you "ordered" the card; once it was determined that it was no longer "in stock" your funds were returned and your "order" was cancelled.

purchase: Acquire (something) by paying for it;
order: Request (something) to be made, supplied, or served

Umm, no, technically he purchased the cards. They sent an invoice and according to his statment he paid within 1 minute. When he sent payment, that is a purchase whether they are in his possession or not. If you go down to a furniture store and buy a new dining room set and they give you a back order slip telling you it will be there in 2-3 weeks, have you still not purchased the furniture whether you have taken delivery of it or not? How you could defend behavior like this is unbelievable.

And another thing, when Nate paid for the cards they were "in stock." He paid from the invoice they sent him. However, instead of removing them from stock to fill Nate's "order," the seller decided to sell them to the second buyer for more money. A deal is a deal, and to back out of the deal for a better offer shows the content of their character. I don't see how anybody can defend DACW's actions.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by npa589

I'd like the cards that I purchased from them because I desire the cards I purchased from them? That's why I put the money down and sent it to them, because I actually wanted the cards?

Someone else also wanted 2 of the cards, but made the decision to buy them after I had literally and officially already purchased them.

The right decision would be to take the negative feedback from the buyer on eBay (if they even choose to leave negative feedback) and learn that they shouldn't list them on both sites if they aren't punctual enough to handle it - which in this case, they were not.

By me buying the cards on their site before they were purchased on another site, and then not being able to keep those cards - it's really communicating to present and future buyers that "The cards on this site are "KIND OF" for sale."

I don't think I'm asking too much here.

I think the only way to logistically handle this would be to accept your non-Ebay offer, contingent upon their removal of the cards from Ebay. Then remove them from Ebay. then complete the transaction. It seems that if it was handled that way the cards would have been purchased on Ebay before they could remove it and you would be in the same situation.

Tough being a seller doing the right thing.

[chaddurbin]

umm such a big deal for 2 $50 cards...you're basically holding them hostage until they "do the right thing"...whatever that is in your eyes. then you're gonna do a complete 180 and advocate their sterling and pristine customer service. what a joke!

wait until i can find a board to oust the shitheads at amazon and assholes at dell who hold my cc orders for weeks then cancel them...they'll be sorry then.

[steve B]

Dealers have to realize that selling individual items on two venues that don't have a shared databse for inventory is bad practice. Especially if one venue enforces the sale/auction as a binding contract as Ebay does. The only eventual outcome is situations like this. If you're selling something easily replaceable like dvds or anything still in production it's fine but for collectibles it's not.

I had a similar situation in reverse with Historicauctions. Won an Ebay item for a very low bid on a Sunday night. Then they reneged saying they had sold the item friday and hadn't had a chance to remove the auction.
A maybe 5 minute process and they couldn't get to it for 3 days? That's either BS or very poor organization. And all they offered was free shipping on some overpriced autographs with no certs which I didn't have any interest in anyway. First negative I've left in a decade on Ebay, and the nonperforming seller complaint got them suspended or banned altogether.

Unless I could automate the retraction of the auction or make a sale pending the retraction I would never offer something both on Ebay and somewhere else. (People ending auctions early bugs me too, but that's more of a gray area.)

Steve B

[t206hound]

11:39 - order is placed with the seller's website
~12:40 - two ordered items have price refunded (roughly an hour after purchase)
~1:04 - send first email to DACW (based on 3:04 post stating email sent two hours ago)
1:08 - initial post
3:07 - second email sent to DACW notifying them of this thread
5:01 - spoke to owner
5:26 - email from Bob & talked to Adam

My question is... why did you start this thread? You hadn't even given the seller the opportunity to handle the situation. Within a few hours you spoke to the owner(s) and received email response. How quickly did you expect them to respond? I can understand if you get no response, or get a response that you don't agree with posting something here after a bit of time had passed, but you were a little quick on the trigger here in my opinion.

[npa589]

Really? Is customer service put in play before or after a mistake has been made?

Do you go to customer service in preparation for cards you are about to buy?

"Boy, their customer service was incredible. I tested them to see how they'd solve a non-existent problem, then I bought some cards."

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

umm such a big deal for 2 $50 cards...you're basically holding them hostage until they "do the right thing"...whatever that is in your eyes. then you're gonna do a complete 180 and advocate their sterling and pristine customer service. what a joke!

wait until i can find a board to oust the shitheads at amazon and assholes at dell who hold my cc orders for weeks then cancel them...they'll be sorry then.

[npa589]

You're right, it's much better to let customer service issues
linger. I suppose it's also better to communicate to the company in question that you really don't care what the result is.

Would I have spoken with the owner (who was very cordial, and we had a good conversation about cards in general, the National, and my issue) had I not started this thread or showed that I, in fact, did care that this happened?
When they sent the refund to me, I think that would be considered them initially handling the situation. It's not like they have an automated refund machine synchronized with eBay.

I hate to say it, but leverage is indeed important in negotiations - no matter how small. Someone can poo poo two 50$ cards all they want, but with where I am - it is a bigger deal than it is to some of you. I'm an engaged school teacher...

Originally Posted by t206hound

11:39 - order is placed with the seller's website
~12:40 - two ordered items have price refunded (roughly an hour after purchase)
~1:04 - send first email to DACW (based on 3:04 post stating email sent two hours ago)
1:08 - initial post
3:07 - second email sent to DACW notifying them of this thread
5:01 - spoke to owner
5:26 - email from Bob & talked to Adam

My question is... why did you start this thread? You hadn't even given the seller the opportunity to handle the situation. Within a few hours you spoke to the owner(s) and received email response. How quickly did you expect them to respond? I can understand if you get no response, or get a response that you don't agree with posting something here after a bit of time had passed, but you were a little quick on the trigger here in my opinion.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Nate,

How very selfish of you to expect a seller to follow through on a deal when they’re able to sell the same cards to another buyer for more money. J/K, of course. Thanks for the explanation, but you really don’t owe anybody here. The facts are pretty simple regardless of any timeline: You committed to the cards. They sent you an invoice. You paid promptly according to the invoice. Shortly thereafter, another buyer was willing to pay more money for the cards. They reneged on the deal and refunded your money. Did I leave anything out?

How anybody can defend DACW’s actions is beyond me. But, hey, if you think DACW is still on the up and up, perhaps you should read this thread. It’s only 10 posts, but you really only have to read the 10th post to understand the type of operation that DACW is running.

http://www.sportscardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1424582

[tothrk]

I also can't see how anyone could defend DACW actions here. As a seller, if you want to list your items in numerous places/sites, you better be on top of things so this junk doesn't happen. Also, the $$ amount of the cards shouldn't matter. It shouldn't matter if it was two $5 cards or two high dollar cards. Also, nice use of the word "poo poo". Haven't seen that one in quite some time.