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#1
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Personally I think Mauer gets in eventually, and is deserving. But just curious on everyone's thoughts on Mauer's career versus the likes of Ted Simmons, Lance Parrish, and Victor Martinez.
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#2
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How about Bill Freehan? 11x All-Star and 5x Gold Glove winner plus a World Series Ring. Never understood how little he is appreciated by the voters.
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#3
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Quote:
Mauer was a 5-time all-star, MVP winner in 2009, 3 time batting champ: 2006/2008/2009, led league in OBP/SLG/OPS/OPS+ in 2009, led league in OBP in 2012. Had 5 seasons over 5 WAR (55.1 total BWAR). https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_C.shtml This table at BBreference lists Mauer as the 7th best catcher ever regarding WAR and JAWS as performance measuring metrics. Admittedly Ted Simmons is 10th best ever per the chart, but as stated above, he lacks the league-leading stats/MVP that Mauer accumulated. I'm not sure I would even vote for Mauer for HOF due to his relatively low counting stats in areas ("only" 2123 hits) but his .306/.388/.439 career slash line is impressive. Combine that with his stellar MVP season, 3 batting titles and 7th place position in WAR/JAWS all-time among catchers and I think he's a sure-fire HOFer at some point. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
#4
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I'm not a huge Mauer fan but I would rate him ahead of those guys. As for Freehan he definitely was the best catcher in the AL for a long stretch but his absolute numbers aren't that great IMO.
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#5
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Mauer wasn't good enough for long enough. I really don't see how he can be looked at any differently than Nomar, who I think had a much better career and isn't talked about at all. Mauer played catcher briefly and he was briefly very good at what he did. But so are a lot of people. His catching record for batting titles doesn't mean much to me at all. Winning three titles at any position isn't a HOF-worthy stat (ask Bill Madlock, who won 4 or Larry Walker and Tony Oliva who won 3 and are still out).
Last edited by packs; 02-26-2019 at 09:37 AM. |
#6
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When we discuss a HOF candidate the player is compared to others at his position. Mauer played the majority of his career at catcher so any comparisons have to be done among other catchers. Mauers stats are 2123 hits, .306 ba, 923 rbi, 1018 runs along with 6 as, 3 gg and an mvp award. First, there are 4 other catchers who won mvp. 3 are in the hof and the other is Thurman Munson who would be and probably should be. Among hof catchers, His hit total is 3rd behind Berra and Fisk and his BA is 3rd behind Cochrane and Dickey (tied with Lombardi). His run and rbi totals are in the range of other hof catchers. His stats are good enough compared to others already there. The mvp award is huge and weighs heavily for a candidate because it shows dominance. Not every player who wins an mvp will be in the hof but for many it will make the difference to put someone in. When I put all of the factors together I think Mauer will be a HOF member as one of the best catchers of his generation whose numbers put him among the all time greats.
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#7
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Nomar just goes to show why you can't anoint a 25-26-27 year old young man as a lock all-time great or even HOFer.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-26-2019 at 12:21 PM. |
#8
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Quote:
Your statement is 99.99% true... with one exception! 27-year old Mike Trout, who is already rated as the 7th or 8th most valuable center fielder ever based on the ever popular WAR and JAWS metrics. He barely has over 1,100 hits, but I'd bet if Trout's career ended today, he would still eventually be enshrined at Cooperstown, simply due to the insane level of value he provided over his 7 year career. https://www.baseball-reference.com/l.../jaws_CF.shtml Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
#9
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Elston Howard won an MVP too. He's not in the HOF either. I don't think the MVP means much for Mauer. The season was a total aberration. He never came close to repeating that performance. Among catchers all time he's probably the best pure hitter, but that's it. He was never an elite all world catcher like Johnny Bench or Pudge (cheating aside). I don't think he was as dominating a player as you're making him out to be. His career OPS of 827 is lower than Jorge Posada's 848. |
#10
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You’re right on Howard. An oversight on my part. Ellie’s career numbers were well below hof caliber but Mauers are not. I’ll use your own words - among catchers probably the best pure hitter. That’s saying a lot. If you’re the best then you belong among the immortals.
Posadas numbers are 1664 hits, 275 hr, .273 ba, 900 runs, 1065 rbi and 5 was rings. You could make an argument for Jorge but there is a much better argument for Mauer. Ops+ is a better indication of a players value taking ballparks and league into account - Mauers is 124, Posada is 121. Jorge has a higher ops because he hit a lot more hr - probably because he played in Yankee stadium. He has a lower ops+ because everyone hits more hr in Yankee stadium. 3 batting titles and an MVP make Mauer an elite hitting catcher and gold glove awards help to show his value at the position which Jorge does not have. An mvp award means he was the best player in the league for a season and he received all first place votes. If that’s not dominant then I’m not sure what is. Quote:
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#11
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Dominant for one season only. That's not a HOFer. He wasn't anywhere near elite any other time in his career. And when I say pure hitter, I mean able to hit 300. There are plenty of players who hit 300 over their careers (like Mattingly) who are not HOF players (even catchers like Bubbles Hargrave; Manny Sanguillen hit 300 as a catcher though his career average is 296).
Even while trying to take away from Posada, you listed a stat that Mauer leads by only 3 points. Posada was off the ballot in one vote and despite what might be popular opinion, I would take Posada over Mauer every time they stood next to each other. Last edited by packs; 02-26-2019 at 02:16 PM. |
#12
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double post
Last edited by packs; 02-26-2019 at 01:29 PM. |
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