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  #51  
Old 12-16-2017, 01:14 AM
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Stampsfan Stampsfan is offline
Bob Davies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insidethewrapper View Post
If the sites would block anyone with more than 2 retractions that would help. If they get a new user id again only 2 retractions blocked again. Then it's up to ebay to stop additional usernames from the same address or computer address. Maybe on ebay a seller could block anyone with several changes in userid within a year. I'm not a computer guy so I don't know what else can be done. Any ideas from the computer software field ?
All of what you are suggesting can easily be done, with a few simple designed queries.
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Last edited by Stampsfan; 12-16-2017 at 01:15 AM.
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  #52  
Old 12-19-2017, 09:48 AM
mark evans mark evans is offline
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I decided to take advantage of the invitation on PWCC's website to notify the company of suspicious circumstances that might indicate shill bidding. The website advises that PWCC will follow up and respond to such inquiries.

Inasmuch as I have not heard back on an auction that is soon to close, I must join those members who have opted to stay away from PWCC's auctions.
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  #53  
Old 12-19-2017, 09:50 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Originally Posted by mark evans View Post
I decided to take advantage of the invitation on PWCC's website to notify the company of suspicious circumstances that might indicate shill bidding. The website advises that PWCC will follow up and respond to such inquiries.

Inasmuch as I have not heard back on an auction that is soon to close, I must join those members who have opted to stay away from PWCC's auctions.
which lot is it
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  #54  
Old 12-19-2017, 08:17 PM
mark evans mark evans is offline
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1952 Topps Mays
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  #55  
Old 12-19-2017, 08:21 PM
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Top two bidders 85% with PWCC.......and your point?
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  #56  
Old 12-21-2017, 09:36 AM
danmckee danmckee is offline
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WOW! Didn't realize so many were seeing the same thing I saw.

PWCC had some nice tough Low-Skip Goudey Indian cards I would have loved to have bought last night, they brought strong prices so good for them.

Dan Mckee
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  #57  
Old 12-21-2017, 11:25 AM
deagleii deagleii is offline
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Default Exactly!!!

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Originally Posted by 100backstroke View Post
See a card you are interested in. Figure out how much you are willing to bid. Put in a bid. If you get it great. If you don't, you don't .
How about a 1 bid only your max vs everyone elses... However, people would then have numerous accounts.... DEBUNKED already mythe buster...
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  #58  
Old 12-21-2017, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 View Post
Top two bidders 85% with PWCC.......and your point?
I don't think the percentage of bids with PWCC is automatically something nefarious; it's the retractions that should raise a huge red flag.

I have had times when I have had bid percentages at 85 percent, and I have never consigned a card with them or bid on a friend's auction.

Last edited by Bored5000; 12-21-2017 at 11:41 AM.
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  #59  
Old 12-21-2017, 11:46 AM
ls7plus ls7plus is offline
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Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Hey Al that misprint Herrera rocks!

Admitted card whore here: I bid with PWCC and Probstein when the item is right. One bid via snipe. Won an item a few weeks ago from PWCC for substantially less than my snipe. Won a Probstein item the other day. also well below my max. Do I get shilled? Probably. Though it is far less likely with the items I go after (boxing cards). My competitors on the last several items I've won have been large feedback bidders with no retractions.

I think the shilling will ultimately hurt PWCC. It is gradually scaring away bidders. I know that for anything mainstream I would want from them I throw out a snipe well below market and let it play out. There are so many specimens of mainstream cards that there is no need to bid strong with PWCC. Another one will surface. Truthfully, the key is not to get invested emotionally in the outcome of the auction. It will drive you crazy otherwise.
A big +1! I have won some with PWCC that way and lost some (most recently the 1959 PSA 5 Bazooka Drysdale--top bid was around $1100-$1300 when I sniped it with 7 seconds left at $2450, only to lose the item when it virtually simultaneously went to $2475).

On the other hand, there are at least two printed catalog type AH's who will remain unnamed here that I would be extremely careful about placing maximum bids with. I have done that on several occasions with PWCC with complete confidence and never had a problem.

Best holiday wishes to all,

Larry
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  #60  
Old 12-21-2017, 11:50 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Originally Posted by ls7plus View Post
A big +1! I have won some with PWCC that way and lost some (most recently the 1959 PSA 5 Bazooka Drysdale--top bid was around $1100-$1300 when I sniped it with 7 seconds left at $2450, only to lose the item when it virtually simultaneously went to $2475).

On the other hand, there are at least two printed catalog type AH's who will remain unnamed here that I would be extremely careful about placing maximum bids with. I have done that on several occasions with PWCC with complete confidence and never had a problem.

Best holiday wishes to all,

Larry


So you would be extremely careful about placing max bids with 'at least two printed catalog type AHs' but let the general public bid away on them. If you dont name any names then you really arent accusing them of anything.

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 12-21-2017 at 11:50 AM.
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  #61  
Old 12-21-2017, 12:15 PM
ls7plus ls7plus is offline
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Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
So you would be extremely careful about placing max bids with 'at least two printed catalog type AHs' but let the general public bid away on them. If you dont name any names then you really arent accusing them of anything.
A word to the wise from someone who's been a lawyer for 40 years: If it appears to sound like a duck, walk like a duck, and quack like a duck, but you really have no absolute proof that it is in fact a duck, better not to make accusations. My point which was most relevant to this thread was that I have not had a single such experience with PWCC.

May your collecting be joyful,

Larry
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  #62  
Old 12-21-2017, 01:02 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Originally Posted by ls7plus View Post
A word to the wise from someone who's been a lawyer for 40 years: If it appears to sound like a duck, walk like a duck, and quack like a duck, but you really have no absolute proof that it is in fact a duck, better not to make accusations. My point which was most relevant to this thread was that I have not had a single such experience with PWCC.

May your collecting be joyful,

Larry
Ok so no proof.
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  #63  
Old 12-21-2017, 02:04 PM
ls7plus ls7plus is offline
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Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
Ok so no proof.
A reasonable, rational person begins to wonder when, near the end of an auction, but still way too early for a snipe, the bidding almost magically zooms upwards to a point just two bids short of your max bid on an item that sold for less than one-third as much five years earlier (admittedly a very rare card, but one of a quite esoteric, obscure character), thus triggering a bid from you just one step below your max. Absolute proof? Of course not. Suspicion? You betcha! Caveat emptor--you're better off for the future by keeping your eyes wide open!

Larry

Last edited by ls7plus; 12-21-2017 at 02:07 PM.
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  #64  
Old 12-21-2017, 03:36 PM
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Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
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Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
Ok so no proof.
Proof often consists of circumstantial evidence from which inferences can be drawn, so you are misusing the term here. Larry's point is that there's risk for him in publicly accusing a major auction house of shill bidding even if he's pretty damn sure what happened. The same reason one is reluctant to publicly accusing people of card doctoring.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 12-21-2017 at 03:38 PM.
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  #65  
Old 12-21-2017, 04:11 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Proof often consists of circumstantial evidence from which inferences can be drawn, so you are misusing the term here. Larry's point is that there's risk for him in publicly accusing a major auction house of shill bidding even if he's pretty damn sure what happened. The same reason one is reluctant to publicly accusing people of card doctoring.
He actually said no absolute proof so i was just summarizing what he said...

It does appear odd though what happened in the auction he talks about, but maybe just a coincidence...if knew which AH he was talking about there could be a back and forth of shared experiences and a discussion that may lead to something.

Someone could be very truthful and not risk any exposure to them if they explain their exact experience with an auction. They dont have to say something underhanded was going on but can just say they were outbid and when etc. It would be hard to see any legal exposure by just saying what happened to you (and not saying why it happened)
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  #66  
Old 12-21-2017, 05:23 PM
mark evans mark evans is offline
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As an update and out of fairness to PWCC, while the company failed to respond to e-mails I directed to the address on its website for reporting suspicious bids, PWCC responded very promptly to my inquiry via eBay.

The company's customer rep advised that they were unaware of any relationship between the consignor and bidder in question. PWCC went on to advise that they had 'contacted' the bidder. I was not advised of the substance of that contact.
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