20" x 16" c1895 basketball team - Is this a colorized photo or an art print?

[CarltonHendricks]

I picked up this 20" x 16" basketball team photo last sunday at a show for a whopping $20.00...that is I think it's basketball...could be soccer/asociation FB...I've seen these kinds of prints before but they aren't too common...my question is...is there a specific name for this kind of image...It's hard to say if it's a print or photo...sort of in between..."Cummins" seems to be designated as the "artist"...Since the E.H. Roberts Portrait Co. started about 1911...someone probably took the negative or original photo to them to have this artistic treatment applied....

I'm anticipating Mr. Cycleback may be able to explain this kind of image...thanks so much

BTW....does anyone know anything about this team?

[drcy]

It's called a crayon and chalk portrait, and is a hand colored photo. The photography studio would make an underdeveloped photo then color it in by hand with colored chalk and crayon to make it resemble an art sketch or painting. It was a standard antique artsty style photo often used to make 1800s and early 1900s family portraits to be hung from the wall. They are usually large and were originally framed, often in oval bubble glass frames.

In many cases, the photographer would re-photograph his handy work and the final result would be monotone (sepia or black and white). However, if there are colors, as with yours, the original hand coloring is right there on the surface.

It's a very old fashioned style and type, and was largely discontinued not so long after 1911.

[drcy]

Also, as they were usually made as large display pieces to be hung from the wall at home, usually only one was made. Most large framed color crayon and chalk portraits you see are one-of-ones. The exception would be where one or two duplicates were made for relatives or an additional one for the office, but, even then, most of the dupes would have been lost in time.

[1880nonsports]

(all I can have at any given moment) is that a typical soccer team hosts 11 players although a team can field fewer players. Not sure if that was always the case. Basketball seems more logical (I know nothing about the ball pictured) - thinking that a team with the moniker the Maples (Leafs as depicted on the unis) are in a Kansas City photo shoot - I would guess they were "on the road" - in which case the full team would likely be pictured and nine players figures right for a BB team........

[murphusa]

his phone number is on the back, give him a call and ask

[marvymelvin]

Even though there are a few guys with 'staches, I think it may be a high school team.

Adrian Michigan has used the name "Maples" for many years, as have Seaholm in Birmingham Michigan, and Maplestown in Greensboro Pennsylvania. I hope this helps.

All of these locations are not too terribly far from MO where the coloring treatment was done. Let me know what you find out. You should ask the person you bought it from where they got it. And then follow it back if you can. This has worked for me on more than one occasion.

Brad in Utah

[Runscott]

Basketball, not soccer

Adults, not high school

Given the above, it might be easier to determine location.

[CarltonHendricks]

Thank all of you for your input and opinions...Especially Mr. Cycleback for clarifying the kind of print it is.

Upon closer inspection of the ball...it appears to have the same seams as a soccer ball...and a piece of round leather trim on the end...looks more like a soccer ball than a basketball...It's a mysterious photo...

[drcy]

My guess is it's basketball. Soccer balls usually had different panel patterns/designs.

[drcy]

It's also possible they were playing an obscure sport we don't know about. Who knows what what was going on all the time in the gym circa 1895. I remember climbing ropes in gym. But my best guess is still basketball.

[murphusa]

Basketball was invented in 1891 by a gym teacher and in the early years they used balls they had around gyms but mainly soccer balls.

You know you can look this stuff up

[vintagesportflips]

Here is an image from an 1894 Spalding guide. The ball shown, and likely being held by the player is an Association ball. It was used for soccer, but as Jim said, early basketball games likely used soccer balls. Also, here is an image of a women's basketball team found via a google search that shows the same style ball.

[Runscott]

Look at the clothing.

Show many a pic of any soccer team wearing singlets.

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[drcy]

Early basketball was passing and shooting, with very little dribbling, so what type of ball used may have been of lesser importance.

They didn't dribble because of the laces on one side, which made the ball erratic to bounce. When they removed the laces around 1930, then dribbling came into vogue.

[drcy]

One reason to guess it's not a soccer team, is soccer requires at least eleven players and there are only ten in the photo. Obviously there can be missing players and all that, but it looks as if they tried to gather the whole team.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by drcy

One reason to guess it's not a soccer team, is soccer requires at least eleven players and there are only ten in the photo. Obviously there can be missing players and all that, but it looks as if they tried to gather the whole team.

David, I played soccer and anyone else who ever played soccer will tell you that soccer players don't wear singlets. For a team photo they would certainly have worn something closer to a soccer uniform.

[drcy]

I played and follow soccer and know what soccer uniforms are like (tank tops not worn in games), but wasn't sure what they'd wear circa 1895. I'm the one who's twice said I think the photo is basketball.

Via my facebook photo archive: Me playing soccer as a kid.

[Runscott]

It wasnt just you that was missing the obvious 'not basketball' clue

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[CarltonHendricks]

Originally Posted by Runscott

It wasnt just you that was missing the obvious 'not basketball' clue

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Well you're way ahead of me I had to look up what a singlet was LOL...