Board Members--Please read

[Jantz]

Hello All,

I will do my best to explain this situation. I'm bringing this to everyone's attention because the Ebay seller in question is also a Net54 member. As most of you know, I am building a T206 set. So I spend a good amount of time looking for T206s to complete my set. I have found some interesting transactions occurring on Ebay. It appears to me that the Ebay seller is buying raw T206s along with bat, jersey and autograph cards from the 2002 Topps T206 set and combining the two. Why would a seller do this? Because Topps Buybacks sell for alot more than just a raw T206 does. Nowhere in the seller's auction does he list them as Topps Buybacks, but he uses the border card to increase his final sale price. So why do I care? Because I have purchased a few of these Topps Buybacks for my set and so have quite a few other collectors. Does the buyer/collector get a authentic T206? Yes, but if they wanted an authentic T206 they could have just bought one raw instead of paying double for a Topps Buyback. Some collectors just collect the Buybacks. To me it seems alittle on the unethical side what this seller is doing, but thats my opinion. Although the Ebay seller also sells on our BST. I will present some scans for proof. Honestly I hope that I am wrong and will apologize to all if I am, but I have seen to much proof to let this go unnoticed. Please keep in mind that I am bringing this all to light because I want to help all the members on this board.

Scans - Raw card....Topps card....Combination for resale

Thanks,
Jantz

[Jantz]

One more example

[V117collector]

Now that's funny, what people will do for an extra buck! Who's the sellers...

[mdschulze]

I've never held a Buyback card so I don't understand how a person could remove one card and replace it with another without tearing up the holder. Obviously it can be done! I can imagine that collectors would be pissed to find that cards in their collections aren't truly Buybacks, especially after paying the additional expense for the card.

Additionally, I'm no attorney, but this seems to me like an implied infringement of some sort. It doesn't matter that the seller is not labeling the card as a Buyback, but displaying the photo or scan with the Buyback frame obviously implies that it is one. I wonder if Topps would have a legal issue with this as well? Thanks for the post and the fine examples.

[FrankWakefield]

Links showing where someone bought those 2 white border tobacco cards; and links showing where the same someone was selling the cards in Topps 206 holders would be compelling...

[egbeachley]

Buy the holder, not the card

[asoriano]

Just from doing a quick eBay search, it clearly shows that the seller is buying the T206's raw and inserting them into the "Topps 206" holders.

Nice work, Jantz.

[Jantz]

Here you go Frank. Sorry I don't know how to linky.

Raw Burch Auction - 150380289975

Topps Auto Auction - 230388469910

Current Combination Auction - 110449713462

All you have to do next is look at the seller's feedback under the "Feedback as a Buyer" tab and you will see all the transactions.

Jantz

[FrankWakefield]

Birch card won... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...fvi%3D1&_rdc=1


The winning of the Topps holder... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

The same Birch card, now in a Topps 206 holder, and I have a bid in on it... http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-T206-TOPPS-...3D10%26ps%3D63

And it looks like the winner of the Birch card and the seller of the Birch in Topps card have the same feedback. Jantz has sussed something out, guys!!! Impressive. And I hope I win that "reloaded" Birch card.

[Matt]

Jantz - great catch and thanks for posting it. My concern whenever I see this kind of thing is that even though this is somewhat benign, if he's doing this, who knows what else he's doing...

[Jantz]

Frank - Thank you for posting the links

Matt - I totally agree with you.

Jantz

[FrankWakefield]

You're welcome, Jantz. I thought that would make it easier for folks to figure it all out.

The seller never mentions Topps. It isn't mentioned in the listing, the description, not anywhere. It's just there in the image...

Seems like the Topps holders would be slightly different for old cards, new signed cards, bat bit cards... are they different, or all the same?

[slidekellyslide]

Interesting....perhaps Larry should ask himself his own question.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showpos...0&postcount=21

[FrankWakefield]

Some time ago, we could go to an eBay listing, click on a bidder, and contact him to warn him about what he's bidding on, a reprint, a forgery... but now, the new system doesn't allow for that. I'd think eBay has increased their liability exposure by changing that in that manner.

[Bridwell]

Larry, do you have any response to this???

[Jantz]

Frank

I too noticed that the seller never mentions a few key words in his descriptions.

All the holders are exactly the same except for the color, which has no significance as to what type of card (bat-jersey-T206) was placed in the holder.

Here are some examples. By the way..the Gasper is mine if you didn't notice. As far as I can tell the Gasper has not been tampered with. I've owned it since 2006.

Jantz

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

Is it possible that that card is actually not in the holder and only photoshopped to look like it.

I think it is best at this point to put out the sellers name. As stated previously if he can do this what else is he doing?

Nice Work, Jantz

Lee

[Bosox Blair]

Well Larry's recent Cobbs for sale post implies he is terminally ill...at least that is how I read it.

Cheers,
Blair

[teetwoohsix]

Great work Jantz-good lookin' out.I have a question though-why would a Topps buy back T-206 be worth more than a "raw" T-206?Aren't they the same thing?I may be wrong,but I thought the buybacks were T-206's Topps bought back from collectors to insert as a promotional for customers who bought the Topps 206 sets.Anyhow,you did a fantastic job on catching this,and I appreciate you investing your time,for your fellow collectors,and for the hobby!

[Scott L.]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

Great work Jantz-good lookin' out.I have a question though-why would a Topps buy back T-206 be worth more than a "raw" T-206?Aren't they the same thing?I may be wrong,but I thought the buybacks were T-206's Topps bought back from collectors to insert as a promotional for customers who bought the Topps 206 sets.Anyhow,you did a fantastic job on catching this,and I appreciate you investing your time,for your fellow collectors,and for the hobby!

Clayton

They are actual T206's but some people collect the buybacks and they do often carry a premium to a like card that is simply raw.

Best,

Scott

[Jantz]

Clayton,

Yes, they are actually the same thing. I guess collectors just like them for what they there. Just like some collectors here only buy cards of a certain player, set or team. Alot of people who collect modern only buy rookie cards. It all boils down to people collect what they like and the only difference between a raw T206 and the Buybacks is the holder and the fact that Topps purchased them and placed/sealed them in these holders. For some reason though, (and I don't know why) collectors seem to pay extra for the Buybacks. Its a mystery to me because they could buy a better raw or graded version for probably the same price. Hope I answered your question.

Jantz

[Ladder7]

Originally Posted by bowlingshoegiverouterguy

Is it possible that that card is actually not in the holder and only photoshopped to look like it.

Confirmed, It's resealed. Nice work J

[FrankWakefield]

Ratz, the seller of the Burch card has canceled the auction. I was hoping to buy it for less than the $18 he'd paid for it.

Larry, you must have read this thread? I wish you hadn't canceled the auction...

[lharri3600]

First allow me to thank the person who found this on ebay. I've dealt with some of you and i have talked to some in the past. I'm in agreement with him this is dead wrong. However i need to say that my brother who handles the ebay side of our business has done this thing not i. I have the utmost amountof respect for the hobby and would never attempt to pull a stunt like this. I mean i already own 2 t206 sets at this time. Money is not an object for me not this point in my life. Why? Cancer has said so!! Thats my reason for selling my cards off. I have told him to take down the ones he put in holders. Infact i'm going to check our purchase records and see which ones i bought from bertfro(his ebay handle) a few years ago. If i see any one not purchased from bert or any other person, they will be taken off. Again those here on 54 that know me know i am a man on strong conviction and a man of integerity.
I guess that's all i can say.
Larry

[calvindog]

Did I tell you guys I lost my virginity to a girl from Canada when I was at sleepaway camp when I was 14? Really. Oh, you don't believe me?

[Ladder7]

Wasn't she the one with three bosoms?

[V117collector]

Originally Posted by lharri3600

First allow me to thank the person who found this on ebay. I've dealt with some of you and i have talked to some in the past. I'm in agreement with him this is dead wrong. However i need to say that my brother who handles the ebay side of our business has done this thing not i. I have the utmost amountof respect for the hobby and would never attempt to pull a stunt like this. I mean i already own 2 t206 sets at this time. Money is not an object for me not this point in my life. Why? Cancer has said so!! Thats my reason for selling my cards off. I have told him to take down the ones he put in holders. Infact i'm going to check our purchase records and see which ones i bought from bertfro(his ebay handle) a few years ago. If i see any one not purchased from bert or any other person, they will be taken off. Again those here on 54 that know me know i am a man on strong conviction and a man of integerity.
I guess that's all i can say.
Larry

All I can say is awesome job Jant, keep up the good work!!! Maybe it time to change' all passwords as well...

[Dan Carson]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Did I tell you guys I lost my virginity to a girl from Canada when I was at sleepaway camp when I was 14? Really. Oh, you don't believe me?

What took so long?

[lharri3600]

As stated before my brother handles the ebay part of our card business. This not an excuse. You can believe me you don't have to, that's your choice. I'm a very sick man and at this juncture in my life what others think does not bother me. All listings will be removed that are from topps.

[Steve D]

Well for whatever it's worth, I've dealt with Larry six times over the past 5 months, all regarding T206s (all PSA graded).

I've never had any problems with any of the transactions. I've had friendly communications with him, he's shipped the cards quickly, and all transactions have been nothing but professional.

I have to, and choose to take him at his word regarding this situation.

Larry, I really wish you nothing but the best regarding your ongoing health concerns. You've been a pleasure to deal with, and I hope to be able to continue doing so.


Steve

[teetwoohsix]

Thanks for the run down Jantz,you are right,it's all about preferance when it comes to collecting anything.Now,I just want to also say for the record that I've bought from Larry at least a couple of times on Ebay,and it was a righteous transaction each time,I was very pleased with what I purchased,how fast he shipped,the packaging,and his communication.I do beleive what he is saying.Just my 2 cents,thats all.

[teetwoohsix]

Also,thanks Scott for responding to my question,I didn't see that until now.I do appreciate it.I guess I'm a bit baffled by why it would bring a higher premium just because Topps put it in a holder-you and Jantz are right though,,it's just a matter of preferance.The Nap Lajoie w/bat that I have was a Topps buyback that the person I bought it from submitted to BVG at a card show,and it came back a vg 3-I love the card.Polar Bear back,and the back is so clean,I'm amazed it came out of a pouch of scrap tobacco 99 years ago!!!

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

Also,thanks Scott for responding to my question,I didn't see that until now.I do appreciate it.I guess I'm a bit baffled by why it would bring a higher premium just because Topps put it in a holder-you and Jantz are right though,,it's just a matter of preferance.The Nap Lajoie w/bat that I have was a Topps buyback that the person I bought it from submitted to BVG at a card show,and it came back a vg 3-I love the card.Polar Bear back,and the back is so clean,I'm amazed it came out of a pouch of scrap tobacco 99 years ago!!!

It's really no different from the cut autographs Topps, Upper Deck, et al issue. They take an autographed Perez-Steele postcard that may sell for $25, cut it and imbed it in one of their cards...suddenly collectors start drooling uncontrollably all over themselves over it. Next thing you know, the cut auto card sells for several hundred dollars.

It's completely insane, but there seems to be no stopping it.


Steve