Net54baseball.com Forums - 365 Days of Roberto Clemente

I don't have a whole lot of post war, but I do have what I believe is a Clemente proof from the Arco set. Mine measures 9.75" x 10" (sorry for the weird photo angle - it is too big for my scanner).

The Arco Gas premiums are 8 x 10, have a caption that goes right to the border of the photo, and the photo is cropped tighter on all four sides compared to mine. And when I posted this in the memorabilia forum, 71buc kindly pointed out that I somehow missed that the location of the signature is different as well -- and told me that this thread is the place for my question (thanks Mike!).

I am curious if anyone has seen one similar to this and can help me figure out what it is. (Mine is the first photo, and Arco premium, which is not mine, is the second.)

1 really important question - is the signature real or facsimile? What type of paper is it on? Presuming blank backed? Couldn't be a "proof" for the issued Arco as the signature is in the wrong place. That said it is clearly somehow connected.

JollyElm

11-04-2020 07:12 PM

My best guess (not based on anything factual) is that the item may be some sort of layout, or proof, or whatever for the Arco card, but when they decided how the photograph would be cropped, they saw the signature was going to be much too close to the edge, so they repositioned it before finalizing it for printing.

Jobu	11-05-2020 11:25 AM

Thanks for the feedback guys.

The signature is part of the photo, not an actual signature. (Unfortunately!)

This is also not an actual photo, but is a printed photo, which makes me think proof as it resembles the Arco printing as far as I can tell from looking at fairly high res scans of them I have found online.

The back is blank.

What type of details are you after for the paper?

hcv123

11-05-2020 08:11 PM

follow up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jobu (Post 2032194)

The Arco issued Clemente is on a light to medium card stock. Wondering if yours is printed on the same type of material or photo paper, or?
I am 99% certain it is connected in some way to the Arco issue as I do not recall that image being used on anything else.

Jobu	11-05-2020 09:17 PM

On the medium side of light stock. It definitely isn't photo paper.

hcv123

11-06-2020 06:09 PM

Well.....

It appears to be the exact same photo with a slightly different crop. Even the autograph looks exactly the same, just with different placement. Yours is larger,blank backed and doesn't have Clemete's name beneath the photo. It sounds like it may be printed on the same paper stock as the Arco as well. While it is improbable to ever have 100% certainty, I would feel safe to say - it is 100% tied to the Arco issue - possibly a preproduction proof. Possibly the only of its kind. Thanks for sharing it!

Empty77

11-07-2020 01:40 AM

I thought the same thing about the signature after comparing it to others I have (that are formally authenticated, at least ostensibly). They're all slightly different--how can they not be with as famously elaborate as his is--so if nothing else that unidentified piece seems designed incorporating the same version of signature captured and facsimiled in the Arco.

Jobu	11-09-2020 10:11 PM

Thank you all for the input, it is greatly appreciated. As much as I don't like to see this question posted on a thread, I am going to ask - how much is something like this worth? It seems like it would need to go to auction to really know, but I am curious if anyone has a ballpark guess.

hcv123

11-10-2020 11:27 AM

Very much a wildcard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jobu (Post 2033546)

Proof material value-wise in my experience varies widely. Obviously there is little to no supply, but I have found there is often not a ton of demand either (excepting something like 1968 3D proofs). Desirability is also tied to the issue to which it relates - the Arco is not exactly a rare or super desirable item. My educated guess - something like this should be in the $100-$200 range.

Jobu	11-13-2020 10:18 PM

Thanks Howard, I appreciate that. When I picked it up I thought it was cool and probably unique, but also didn't think I would be turning it around to finish off my car payments or anything like that ( :D ) for the reasons you suggest. Thanks again for the help everyone.

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