Net54baseball.com Forums

Net54baseball.com Forums (http://www.net54baseball.com/index.php)
-   Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)

tedzan 10-22-2021 06:35 AM

Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do
 
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...SC150x30xz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...1910COUPON.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg
.... Sweet Caporal ...... Sovereign ......... Piedmont___The "House" that created these Tobacco cards___American Beauty ... COUPON ...…...... UZIT


This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman
so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)].

Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363
meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, this thread was...."the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca).

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the
theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints.

So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here.

And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________

INDEX

Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted.

Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters.

Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey

Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure

Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards

Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns of the T206's and T205's

Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set

Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set

Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set

Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set

Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds"

Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ?

Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated

Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story

Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's

Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist

Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards

Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's

Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist

Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card

Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back

Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate

Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ?

Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards

Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #801 >> 823.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #824 >> 832.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards

Posts #833 >> 850.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #851 >> 853.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #854 >> 883.....What backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

Posts #884 >> 900.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #901 >> 916.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #917 >> 944.....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Beauty 460 run. Show your favorite run

Posts #945 >> 950.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #951 >> 961.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #962 >> 984.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)

Posts #985 >> 1000....... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

Posts #1001 >> 1002..... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

Posts #1004 >> 1034.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

Posts #1035 >> 1050.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top

Posts #1051 >> 1066.....Show T206's with same name on top or different player's name on top

Posts #1068 >> 1070.....Imagine the T206 guys come alive, great read about the 1904 season

Posts #1071 >> 1086....."pet peeves" regarding certain T206's...and tell us of your's ?

Posts #1087 >> 1100.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Posts #1101 >> 1150.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Posts #1151 >> 1160.....Unique Antique CAR(ds).....Show us your "One of a Kind" T206(s)

Posts #1161 >> 1193.....ATC's "signature" white-border T-card. Post your favorite Red Cobb

Posts #1194 >> 1198.....Questionable action poses on certain T206's. Show us a questionable pose

Posts #1199 >> 1200....."You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"

Posts #1201 >> 1207....."You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"

Posts #1208 >> 1213.....Revisiting the 150-only Series.....and, let's see your cards

Posts #1214 >> 1225.....The "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card survey (Updated)

Posts #1226 >> 1237.....The "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card and related subjects

Posts #1238 >> 1250....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them

Posts #1251 >> 1262....."fat" AMERICAN BEAUTY cards....If you have any, let's see them

Posts #1263 >> 1281.....T206-like T209 (CONTENTNEA) 1st series....show us your T209 cards

Posts #1283 >> 1294.....TRIVIA....Iffy call cost Team the Pennant. Who's the T206 player involved ?

Posts #1295 >> 1300.....Interesting similarities between T206 Doyle Nat'L and T207 Hoff

Posts #1301 >> 1302.....Interesting similarities between T206 Doyle Nat'L and T207 Hoff

Post #1303....................INDEX

Posts #1305 >> 1310.....Interesting similarities between T206 Doyle Nat'L and T207 Hoff

Posts #1311 >> 1314.......... THREAD HI-JACKED .....

Posts #1316 >> 1318.......... THREAD HI-JACKED .....

Posts #1328 >> 1332.......... THREAD HI-JACKED .....

Posts #1335 >> 1341.......... THREAD HI-JACKED .....

Posts #1342 >> 1350.....Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do

Posts #1351 >> 1373.....Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do

Posts #1374 >> 1376.....Interesting association of AB350 (no-frame) T206's and AB460 T206's

Posts #1377 >> 1398.....Fun run....PIEDMONT 350-460 Fact 25....Give it the old college try

Posts #1399 >> 1400.....TRIVIA....Pitcher, Reliever, Infielder & good hitter. Name this T206 guy ?

Posts #1401 >> 1409.....TRIVIA....Pitcher, Reliever, Infielder & good hitter. Name this T206 guy ?


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me with your question.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

tedzan 10-22-2021 06:40 AM

Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss (Post 2156072)
Hi Ted!

My current t215 Pirate - an upgrade from the “other Wagner”

Ryan

Does that Pirate Tinker complete your Tobacco card run of the Bat Off Shoulder image ?


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

tedzan 10-22-2021 12:49 PM

Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do
 
Hey guys,

I really appreciate your responses (and displaying your cards)....regarding this "blue" Wagner topic.

Here are a few more from my T206 collection.


.https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...nerSov150x.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...erSC42ovpt.jpg https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...erTolstoiX.jpg

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...nerSov150b.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...rSC42ovptB.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...erTolstoiB.jpg


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

tedzan 10-23-2021 07:31 PM

Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do
 
I have a few more blue Wagner cards, but I cannot find them. Therefore, until I do, here are the
two Wagner's featured in the American Caramel set (E91) series C....which were issued in 1910.

Show us your Wagner cards....T206 "orange" or "blue", or whatever Tobacco or Candy set they were printed in.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan.../e91wagner.jpg


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...swagnere91.jpg



TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

Rhotchkiss 10-23-2021 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan (Post 2156125)
Ryan

Does that Pirate Tinker complete your Tobacco card run of the Bat Off Shoulder image ?.


Sorry Just seeing this. My t215 pirate is Chance batting. I have a complete “t206” tinker bat off run, but I do need t214, t215-2 and t215 pirate (I think tinker bat off comes in those)

tedzan 10-23-2021 08:42 PM

Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss (Post 2156733)
Sorry Just seeing this. My t215 pirate is Chance batting. I have a complete “t206” tinker bat off run, but I do need t214, t215-2 and t215 pirate (I think tinker bat off comes in those)

Ryan

Don't mind me, we just returned from a vacation in the town of Jim Thorpe in the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania.
While we were up there, I checked-out what was happening on Net54 and I saw your post of your Pirate card on my
cell phone.

Looking at the small image on my phone, I mistook it for "Tinker". Either that or my mind reminded me of your great
Tinker (bat off shoulder) run. Anyway, now that I am home, and looking at my Lap-Top screen, I clearly see that your
Pirate card is Chance :)

I appreciate you correcting me.

Take care my friend,

TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

tedzan 10-24-2021 06:01 PM

Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do
 
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...onSGC40xxx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eetCap11xx.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...eign460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...vereign12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...bbBat12xzz.jpg
...... Piedmont ...... Sweet Caporal ..... Polar Bear_____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards_____Sovereign ........... Hindu ........ American Beauty


Following up from Post #1354 with American Caramel (E90-1) set....here are the two Wagner cards from my set.

Aesthetically speaking (in my opinion), these two cards of Wagner are the all-time best images of him in any BB card issue.
Especially, the throwing pose with the sunset in the distance. It is lithography at it's best.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...rfranknagy.jpg . . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...rowing50xb.jpg

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan.../batwagner.jpg


Although these images are also found on other E-card sets (and the T216 sets), I chose to display the E90-1 Wagner's,
since their images are usually of a higher quality than on the other sets.


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

parkerj33 10-29-2021 10:33 AM

Hey Ted.

In another thread you posted a pic of 12 150-only cards, and seemed to imply that they must have been on the same sheet. Maybe I misread your implication, but I don't see how you can conclude that because there were 11 150-only cards that weren't extended into the 150/350 series, that they then must have been on the same sheet.

Here is my reasoning: ATC puts together ~150 (156) cards for the first series....They are randomly organized into sheets (maybe 12 wide, maybe not....) for printing and then for back "assignment".

Turns out that out of those ~150, a few errors, mistakes and problems arise...guys die, guys leave the big leagues, Plank/wagner, Magie/Magee, etc. When they laid out the original sheets in april 1909, they would have had no idea which random images would need to later be excised....

So my contention, is that when they decided to expand to 350 cards...they just took the first ~12 or so from the proposed new sheets and inserted them into the existing sheets as replacements for the non-extended subjects. maybe they had 9 to replace, but since they had sheets of 12, they replaced 12 people from the 150series sheet layouts.

respectfully, jim.

tedzan 10-29-2021 11:01 AM

Can't afford the orange Wagner, then the blue Wagner will do
 
Hi Jim

I'm not quite sure of the point you are making. Let me think about it before I respond. I'm away right now, and I'll try to give you an answer later today.

I'm guessing that you re referring to this illustration of mine ?

150-only Series

American Lithographic introduced the T206 set during the Spring of 1909 by printing these 12 cards then shipped them to T-Factory's____
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...rchDonlinX.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...SC150x30xx.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...m022705A_1.jpghttps://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...PeltyReulX.jpg


TED Z

T206 REFERENCE....convenient access to T206 checklists
.

parkerj33 10-29-2021 11:13 AM

yes, my point was that i think you were implying that since those 12 were discontinued, then they must have been on the same sheet together. I don't think that ALC was "lucky" enough in laying out the sheets initially, to fortuitously group all the subjects that eventually had reason to be discontinued, when those reasons would not have been known at the time the sheets were laid out.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:42 PM.