I have a feeling The own decisions In their lives factor in the the circumstances to not be able to live within their means. At one point do they take responsibility? Some people need assistance, others manipulate it. How can the system be fixed? Give hands out to everyone? Who pays for that

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medicare is on pace to run out of money as well as social security....more people will always vote for the government to give them stuff....in history many of the governments fail as they become bankrupt..........states already becoming bankrupt.

covid is a unique thing...but there were people already making poor decisions before..puerto rico was bankrupt and then they got hit from the hurricane and blamed their problems on the hurrican for example...never understand why we dont save more in times of prosperity......why companies pay so much in dividends etc..... blaming both the left and the right ..

Here's a long-ish essay by someone claiming to be a former cop that covers things pretty well. I'm not saying I agree, but if you are really interested in learning what the "defund the police" movement is about, it describes the position in some depth.

https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confess...p-bb14d17bc759

Ted

can always take money from somewhere else instead of the police department to help in troubled areas. I would take a wild guess that there are funds being spent somewhere else that may not help the community versus paying for police. Police/state attorneys are all one package by the way.
Not sure the criminals will carry lesser weapons if the police have lesser weapons....

body cams are really expensive, a lot of recent funding went to that and that appears worthy..

If you are taking responsibilities away from the police, then you can also take the money to pay for those responsibilities from the police. That seems pretty obvious to me.

If you really want to see what a lawless society looks like, read a history book. The Wild West already happened. I don't recommend repeating it, but what do I know.

The people (liberals) who are talking about defunding or disbanding the police have traditionally called for stricter gun control too. If they get their way it would be worse than the wild west, because only the lawless would be fully armed.

The point he's been making over and over again is that this isn't a call to disband the police. It's a call to defund them. He has given you ample links to look over if you're confused about the intentions.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minneap...ce-department/

Minneapolis City Council members say they plan to vote to disband city's police department

June 9, 2020 / 8:10 AM / CBS News

On Sunday afternoon, hundreds of people rallied at a Minneapolis park to call for more changes to the city's police department. Nine out of 13 Minneapolis City Council members stood up on the stage to announce their intent to disband the city's police department, CBS Minnesota reports.

The announcement comes after council president Lisa Bender and member Jeremiah Ellison tweeted last week that they plan to dismantle the police department.

Yes, well you should do yourself a favor and read a corresponding article about the Camden police department. Again, disbanding a department does not mean eliminating a police force. It means replacing it.

I don't live in Camden, I live near Minneapolis. Maybe the English language has changed. I had thought "disband" meant "disband", and that "dismantle" meant "dismantle."

Maybe they'll replace it with a team of unarmed social workers or something, I don't know.

You could click some of the links that have been provided. They go into details about everything you have questions about.

Camden is a town in New Jersey that disbanded and replaced its police department. It is the standard for "defunding the police" and what the process looks like.

right we know its to lesson funding for the most part ...but again, my point was you can take money from somewhere else .

body cams seem to work...would you want 30k a year officers working for your town or 60k a year ones...you pay for what you get...

body cams seemed like a good idea...it takes a lot of time and money to prosecute criminals.... cant just say defund the police without also addressing the court system...going to have to defund the court system..what about public defenders, we defund them too?

Arm chair liberals, got to love them.


Camden is now only the 10th most dangerous city In the US, from the 1st.


10% less population, and almost twice as many cops as 2012 when it was ranked #1

i wonder how many male protestors are asking for fairness in the world yet dont pay child support and left their family broken.....

Sure, because all the European countries with stricter gun control laws, to say nothing of Japan, Canada, New Zealand or Australia, have much higher murder rates than the United States. Everyone knows that, right?

Actually it's not clear that body cams work:

https://news.yale.edu/2017/10/27/do-...or-not-so-much

Why do you keep bringing up reducing funding from other sources when the issue is police enforcement? How is it logical for a community to reduce funding from something like community development so they can combat lost trust with the police department?

Yes, I agree that that phrase would seem to promise something that the people using it aren't actually going to deliver. It's like "Make America Great Again" that way. But no one that anyone really takes seriously is proposing to get rid of police altogether.

You should read an article on the police department. If you did you would see that the city replaced it's police department in 2013, which is after 2012. If you look further you'll see they've reduced violence by 9 places in the time since they disbanded and replaced their police force.

those same people that attack 'make america great again' always make the point that words matter and if you say something mean it, dont explain it as something different. Even if actions dont match the words they make a big deal about the words

now those same people say 'defund the police' and have no issue on how its stated and dont understand any confusion on it because afterall they can explain what it means and actions mean more than what is said.

Still the 10th most dangerous city, with a reduction in population and doubling of force. That's progress? Guess it couldnt get worse than #1

I've been there, and to Paterson NJ, Another really rough spot.


This is why when people from their arm chair posting articles to places theyve never been, showing how great theyve done, really isnt helping the probelm. It's easy to point fingers.




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Criminals do not obey gun laws. Can you understand that if someone will kill another person, they are not going to respect laws that tell them they can't have their gun? For that matter, can you understand such a person is also not going to pay attention to a paper sign on a door that says "Guns not allowed?"

It is incredibly naive to think we can be just like Europe if only we can pass more gun laws. Law abiding people, by definition, obey such laws. Law breakers, by definition, do not. So liberals would have increased restrictions on law abiding people being able to defend themselves, they would weaken law enforcement, while criminals would sit there with big grins on their faces. So much easier to rob, beat, and steal from people when liberals have rendered them utterly defenseless.

18 murders in Chicago just this weekend. Do you really think a few more gun control laws would've prompted those murderers to stop, reconsider, and turn in their weapons instead?

What's wrong with that, though? Isn't it good if you drop 9 places?

English is a nuanced language. Defund means defund; but it doesn't mean eliminate police departments. In NYC defund relates to removing NYPD officers from working security at public schools, which is a revenue stream for the department. The city can opt to spend the money putting officers in the schools or the city can opt to spend its money elsewhere. That is the idea behind something like defund the police.

I do not think that "we can be just like Europe if only we can pass more gun laws." I was responding to the argument that stricter gun control would make America like the Wild West by showing that other countries manage to have both strict gun control and much lower homicide rates among both the police and the general public. We would obviously need to transform our society in a lot of other ways too.

Is it your position that gun laws are the only laws criminals don't obey? Because if your point is that criminals don't obey laws, it would seem to follow that we should not bother passing laws against murder, robbery, arson, jaywalking, etc. because criminals won't obey those either. And the same political party that argues that we can't stop gun ownership with laws seems to think that we can stop drug use and abortions with laws, although that may not be your position.

Also, there are many many cases of people who were not previously criminals committing offenses with guns - for example, roommates who have never committed crimes start to argue, the argument escalates, the gun is right there and someone ends up dead. Or people get drunk and someone decides to mess around with a gun - "don't worry, it isn't loaded" - and someone gets shot. Someone forgets to lock a drawer and their child finds their gun and tragedy happens. Many suicides happen because there's a gun that's handy and it seems like a fast and easy way out. None of these people were criminals before the gun was fired. Some of those people would find other weapons - less deadly ones - but not all of them, and the consequences would be less severe. If the gun isn't there, things end differently.

But I acknowledge that this is a pointless argument on my part because over the course of the last few decades the country has been flooded by guns and I don't think there's any realistic way to do anything about that now. We as a society have decided to accept school shootings and mass murders and serial killers in exchange for the "freedom" everyone has to get access to weapons. When Sandy Hook happened and nothing was done I gave up hope for change.

right if protests were not happening there may not have been rioting...stores were just there.. and also people died, people will also die from Covid. Everything comes with costs. People want their 'freedom' on both sides of the aisle it appears. I believe more people are going to die from covid stemming from spread from protestors then the number of kids killed by guns...we will see

Giving up certain freedoms for non criminals to give up their guns comes with a cost. Its a not free lunch

you do know that you are just as likely to die from a stab wound then gunshot..crazy people can shoot people, they can also poison us in mass or send bombs in mail, crash vehicles..plug one hole with your finger, 2 more holes burst out.

can make it a bigger crime to have wrongful gun ownership and to the illegal sales of arms or wrongful sales...i would start there

Considering only 2k people under 44 years of age died of covid 19, I dont think they are too worried about it.

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I dont understand why Wendy's got burnt down when they are the one's that supplied the video that showed the chase and provided a unique angle that was very helpful and for that the building was burned down.

If you owned a business that had a recording of an alleged wrongful police killing, would you want to share that knowing your business would be at risk of being burned down.

You're assuming the people destroying the property were BLM supporters. They recently arrested one of the guys who burned down the Minneapolis police station and he sure doesn't seem like one to me.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/pr/s...precinct-arson

I would imagine if there is anything the far-right and the BLM potesters could agree on, it's that the looters losers out just to create mayhem have pretty much ruined any chance at intelligent conversation.

well probably a ton a of witnesses, like a lot of crimes , if want true partnership with police i hope the community shares the information.

i also hope all the money thats being collected in gofundme campaign gets shared to all of the minority peoples families that have died or perhaps to a college fund to poor families in the community

It would serve as good example of re-allocation as BLM wants to change how police are funded. There were many people allegedly represented by BLM killed in the community the past week. Why would two families get 20 million who are also going to have civil suits while the rest of the community gets nothing. It would serve the community to re-allocate the funds. The others that have died in the community are no less equal that the 2 noteworthy victims...

Then both of those sides would rage over what constitutes "intelligent conversation". Always has to be something

same argument of what Near Mint means in raw cards.....

Criminals do not obey gun laws. Can you understand that if someone will kill another person, they are not going to respect laws that tell them they can't have their gun? For that matter, can you understand such a person is also not going to pay attention to a paper sign on a door that says "Guns not allowed?"

It is incredibly naive to think we can be just like Europe if only we can pass more gun laws. Law abiding people, by definition, obey such laws. Law breakers, by definition, do not. So liberals would have increased restrictions on law abiding people being able to defend themselves, they would weaken law enforcement, while criminals would sit there with big grins on their faces. So much easier to rob, beat, and steal from people when liberals have rendered them utterly defenseless.
18 murders in Chicago just this weekend. Do you really think a few more gun control laws would've prompted those murderers to stop, reconsider, and turn in their weapons instead?



I agree 100% with this argument. Well stated, Mark.

where is the fund raising money for those 18 murder victims (who wont be obtaining money from the government in a lawsuit) in chicago assuming black lives matter...

there is plenty of money for the 2 victims of the police and money for the protestors and rioters to get out of jail but it appears the murder victims you stated and store owners (and jobs) are left behind..

These things are already happening:

https://blockclubchicago.org/2020/06...up-the-pieces/

https://chicago.suntimes.com/busines...oting-business

Exactly. It's possible to be against both kinds of violence at the same time.

those are just a few examples and pennies on the dollar as there was over 20 million dollars in damages.

i also dont see anything for the 100s of black crime victim families who had a loved one die....i would think that would be more of a priority then fixing a store.. given that BLM

the statutes that are being torn down could of been sold to europe for example and paid for years of after school programs instead of ripped down...i think the lives would be improved a lot more doing it that way..

I keep referring to information and posting these links for you to show you that you're making assumptions. Everything you've wondered about is already being put into practice because these issues are important to the people involved in them. If these issues are important to you, you have a responsibility to inform yourself. You also have the opportunity to get involved.

When I tried to post this vid on Face Book, FB told me this vid doesn't exist?
Truth is, I can watch it all day long on another forum I belong to so I am curious if it will show up, be watchable, here?
https://www.facebook.com/7cc23ecd-ed...d-0222c6a7177b

Nope, looks like they removed it. It was just someone black woman's opinion on the Democrats and their hypocrisy towards the BLM movement. It was cordial, well thought out and foul language free. The only thing wrong with it, in facebook's mind, was it went against what MSM, the Dems, and other left leaning sites are trying to brainwash you with.

Sad world we are living in. Our gov't up here is also trying, and succeeding to some extent, in controlling the media. Last time I checked, communist countries do the same thing.

Right the links were seen.

Show me a link showing the millions of dollars going to BLM are going to black victims of crime in the same neighborhoods where the 2 recent police killings took place and defunding the police is the position.

For that matter show me the links supporting the all of the dead and injured police officers in those communities.

You cant say..well they got 60k..and thats the same thing as getting 200 million..

I encourage you to seek out your own information and inform yourself instead of making the assumption:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/black-l...2m-grant-fund/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...to-donate.html

Thas still not address the issues I presented. Nothing specifically for victims. I will have to ASSUME that money to fight all of this racism will not go the victims of black on black violence as that has nothing to do with racism. I also will ASSUME money to collect from victims of police brutality on your other link will not go to victims of black on black violence or helping the family structure and schooling.

I am going to assume the number of deaths/serious injuries of black on black violence far exceeds that of victims of police brutality. Feel free to post a link that is contrary to that assumption.

Perhaps you can post the platform of BLM and their views of Israel as well