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...duplicate...imagine a witty comment..
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You can argue but its not laughable. The cheating thing doesnt really matter anymore especially with pitchers. Just a few more years and we will see guys with a much worse 'cheating' connotation be in the hall. At times being the most dominated pitcher isnt enough. How is 1 season.? is that enough..how about 2? Its not like he had 6 seasons. Many times the Cy young award is a toss up between a few guys. Petitte was top 6 in the Cy young 5 times and Roy 7 times. Plus again, you cant penalize a guy from doing well in the post season. Not having chance still hurts you. Thats life. There are great players that never got a chance to do a lot of things, and we dont give them awards either. If you have a guy that did do something versus a guy that never had a chance, guess what the guy that did do something gets the edge.. the last year petitte pitched he was an all star...he could of continued to pitch if he wanted too and he could of gotten to 300 wins who know...but he never got the opportunity so petitte doesnt get the credit for that. Just like Roy doesnt get any credit for the playoffs since he didnt have the opportunities.. Pettite has the most post season wins in baseball history....roy worst seasons (era over 10 in 13 starts sent down to minors) were much worse than Andys worse seasons...if you want to count the best of the best seasons you need to count the worst of the worse seasons.. Its far from laughable to compare the two |
Now they've released footage which seems to show him doing very stupid things with his plane. Damm. Very sad. Clearly a great family man who adored his kids. Should have taken up a safer hobby.
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What an idiot.
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Apparently Roy enjoyed flying real close to the water, as he felt like it was a war plane at that point (WWII water strafes or something...). |
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However we still dont know for sure anything. Im sure the airplane maker will use the info to blame pilot error and to avoid any blame to their aircraft. The too fast to furious actor that died had a claim through his estate for product defect to the car that was crashed.. |
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You only want to look a raw numbers and ignore the context of them. You want to ignore proven strategy that is still used today by throwing out "stawman" which doesn't apply. Ryan was the better pitcher. He was more productive (by preventing runs) over a longer period (innings pitched). That doesn't take away from Halladay's greatness. That won't keep Halladay from the HOF. It doesn't mean that there weren't better pitchers than Nolan Ryan, just not Roy Halladay. |
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Just for the record: I think Halladay was a great pitcher who deserves to be in the Hall of Fame and will probably get there eventually. But I'm skeptical that he'll make it on the first ballot, due to the prevalence of certain opinions that have been on display in this thread; he certainly won't get 100% of the vote. His low counting stats (just over 200 wins), his numerous mediocre seasons mixed in with his great ones, his sparse postseason experience relative to other similar pitchers (Petitte, etc.) -- whether you agree with them or not, these are all reasons people give for not thinking Halladay is a HOFer. I don't agree that those things should keep him out, but a not insignificant percentage of people do think that, and I'm sure that includes quite a few Hall of Fame voters.
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I don't see where arrogance comes into it. Guy lived life to the hilt and here used some pretty terrible judgment. Everything I've read about him says he was a fantastic down to earth guy. Had the money to buy rich toys.
Athletes frequently think they are invincible. A number of years ago a goalie for the NJ Devils was killed speeding. Lost control of his car on a turn and killed. Forget if he was drunk. I've told the story to my boys and to countless others. If you think you have fast reflexes and can drive like a mad man . . . your reflexes and perception are nothing compared to what his were. His worth unworldly. If he lost control of a speeding car you can very very easily do the same. |
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Top 6 in the Cy Young voting. When did top 6 become a thing. That is laughable. How about Cy wins 2-0 Top 3 which is much more standard than top 6 which is 5-1 Doc. Andy was a solid pitcher that compiled a lot of wins over a very long career on some of the best teams and helped extend his career with the aid of PHDs. |
My co-workers have also been extending their careers with PhDs. They're quite open about it.
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Edit to add that the accident was in New Jersey. |
Thanks. Must be what I was remembering. Was in NJ not far from where I now live.
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RIP. I don't really want to engage about who was the better pitcher, but Roy Halliday was both a stud and a stand up guy.
My prayers go out to his wife and his kids. This is just awful news. I was floored when I heard it. |
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Also Doc's 2 worst seasons were far worse than anything Pettite did..so 2-0 there as well. As for top 6 or top 3 in cy young...3-6 is a lot of the same class. Baseball reference uses the top 6..and most people go by baseball reference as the standard. We dont know how Roy would of did on Pettite's teams but Pettite took advantage of his opportunity. He was never sent down to the minors in his 3rd season or later due to ineffectiveness as well. Also its not like the win total is even close. Pettite blows Roy out of the water in that category and counting stats matter until you show me a 300 winner not make to the HOF. Tim Lincecum won two Cy youngs. .wining a Cy young or two doesnt make you a HOF at all. The counting stats matter and pettite destroys Doc in most of them. Its laughable you think it is laughable to compare the two. |
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Well, that's talk radio for you.
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I wouldn't say "deserved" to die, but a complete idiot and moron, yes Halladay was that.
Of course maybe he was drunk, like Jose Fernandez, who knows. |
I guess I am not quite sure of what I am seeing in the instagram video. I hear a guy saying, "WTF" multiple times. Was he flying upside down or doing a bunch of loops or something?
Perhaps the guy filming did not know that the plane was designed to land on the water. Halladay may have been practicing touch downs. You don't have to actually touch down each time. Perhaps he was being reckless, but it did not appear obvious in the video I saw. In either case, he definitely did not deserve to die. Very sad. Speaking of the Phillies and sad, yesterday on Howard Stern, there was a segment called, Memet Spends the Day with Lenny Dykstra. While it was funny, it was also sad. As far as HOF, I think Halladay gets in but I never thought of him as a first ballot guy. |
Actually
All of our choices are caused by a succession of precipitating events that has been unfolding since the Big Bang and over which we exercise no control. It is a deterministic universe, and no one deserves anything.
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Say what??
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no one should be laughing
How many post-season no-hitters for Pettitte? He's blown out of the water on that one!
Seriously, Halladay got 5 starts in the postseason, Pettitte 41. Don't you think Pettitte's teams might have had something to do with it? Personally I think they are both HOFers but IMHO, your reasoning is laughable. Quote:
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" I hope Life doesn't turn out to be one big joke, because I don's get it"...Jack Handey |
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The argument about 300 wins is also laughable because Pettitte doesn't have 300 or even 270. Also Pettitte has a career 3.83 era I believe. How many hofers have an era that high. I'll wait..... |
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Roys era is about 3.6, so not sure how that great era supports him (woudl put him bottom 5 of the current 75 pitchers in HOF). Petiite played 2 more years than Roy yet the two worst seasons between the two pitchers are assessed to Roy not Pettite. The argument about 300 wins is to say that counting stats matter unless someone with 300 wins doesnt go into the HOF. Not sure thats a laughable argument. Petitte has about 275 combined wins with postseason and regular season compared to how many by Roy...thats the argument that counting stats matter. Winning 2 cy youngs doesnt get you into the HOF. Saying its not fair Petitte got wins on teams that Roy didnt get is all about opportunity. It is what it is. Petitte blows Roy out of the water in wins which is a big stat for the HOF. You want to talk about how many pitchers get into the HOF with a 3.8 era. (or 3.6 for Roy) .i would counter that with how may starters win less than 203 games get into the HOF and not due to early injury/political reason/also closer etc) Smoltz won 213 for example |
Roy hallady r.i.p
Could we please start a new thread about Roy vs Pettitte vs Ryan? This is getting ridiculous.
A man lost his life leaving behind a wife and two young boys yet all ppl care about is where he ranks in xxx list and if he will be a first ballot HoF'er. SMDH. |
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You dont get into the HOF for pitching no hitters :( As far as talking about Roy's stats after the recent news. i think its pretty normal to discuss careers of people and where they stand against other peoples careers especially in the entertainment and sports. This is exactly when these discussions occur, after recent news. |
Try 3.39.
Also Pettitte's whip is gross at 1.351 even higher than Tim Wakefields! He would be 4th worst there! |
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You really digging deep to get to Whip. Lefty Gomez whip was worse than Petitte and Lefty is in the HOF.. ..whatever you want to say it didnt cause petitte to lose games...he won 60 or so more games they Roy |
I thought people only pointed to pitchers' career wins out of sarcasm these days, like to "prove" that Don Sutton was better than Tom Seaver, or Jerry Koosman was better than Sandy Koufax or whatever.
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However if player A won 300 more games than player B with an equal number of games started, i think it would be silly not to point out the great disparity in wins when comparing the two.. |
A lot of similarities to the 1997 John Denver crash
http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/10/33/35.../5/920x920.jpg Article on FAA findings on that one http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrSb...BZDTZkbHR9NUc- |
man that plane looks unsafe...i have flown gyrocopters that looked safer and thats saying a lot
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John Denver is dead?
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I remember at the time my friend relating to me that he had seen a headline on a website "Plane Crashes In California. John Denver Feared Alive." Which is simultaneously one of the most awful and wonderful jokes I've ever heard.
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Al beat me to posting a picture of the 'plane' Halladay crashed. Reminds me of that gasoline-powered roller-skate they call a 'smart car' - neither looks safe enough for me to consider operating in even the best of conditions.
Here's the photo I found of the ICON A5: Attachment 294238 |
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