There is a board that makes the decision on where to have the National. That being said, the founder and promoter, Mike Berkus, is set to speak again at our Dinner this year at the National. He has gone over the reasoning for the locations before. It's not as easy as everyone thinks. The main things it has to do with are money (cost of venue), ingress and egress, contractual issues (can they reserve for years in the future) and sometimes it has to do with Unions. He has explained it a few times but that is what I remember. As I have said, for me personally, once I get on a plane I don't care where it is. I go to the show for the show, nothing else. It could be in a 350,000 sf tent in the desert (as long as there is ac) for all I care. I am going and am going to have fun. I go on family vacations for other things. I go to the show for the show. I am probably in the minority as usual. :)

Comicon is always in San Diego, but that being said I agree with everyone. The need to book it 5 years in advance is a little silly. I believe that is why Baltimore is out of the mix. One of the best sites for the National and should be in permanent rotation and I'm saying this as someone who lives on the West Coast.

Other cities would be great, or a permanent rotation that didn't include Cleveland. Bottom line is probably money. These guys are promoters and there is a dollar figure that they want to make in order to make it worthwhile to them. If there is a venue that doesn't make them the same amount of money, it gets axed from the list.

The local show that we put on, we do for fun. We are collectors first and foremost, not promoters. It's a different mindset.

I was actually excited to see AC on the list...i'll reserve my room at Revel now ;)

I think that would be a fun weekend for sure.

PS- I am also of the opinion that an NYC Nat'l would be amazing.

So they can go east coast with AC but no love for Cali?

Boooooo for hating on the West.

Hey Travis,

Very funny about your proposed locations but I wanted to focus on this part of your quote. I agree and I have a theory in this regard. When I go to the National I can't help but notice there are very few young people/kids who attend. I am not saying there are NO kids, just that there are much less than one would expect at a National Convention of this nature.

I think one of the reasons for this is that the younger generation is growing up in a world completely different than ours. Their world is full of interaction (video games, etc) and the idea of looking at static images on pieces of cardboard is not very attractive to them. In fact, I gave my son, who is now 16, a number of 1960s and 1970s baseball cards of star players (Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Pete Rose, etc) when he was younger and he said "Thanks Dad, that's really nice." However, that night the cards went into his dresser drawer and I don't think he ever looked at them again. I simply don't think trading cards grab the imagination of the youth like it did in our day.

With that said, I think one thing that would truly increase the attendance at our conventions is to offer more interactive components for the youth. I still don't understand why we couldn't have companies like EA Sports and others there with interactive sports related games. I understand our industry is about nostalgia but I don't think we will truly reach our youth with this hobby unless we offer them more than what we are now. That's not to say things like "case breaks" are not appealing to some of the younger people who like to rip wax but I really think the interactive nature of the Comic Con is one of the reasons it is so popular and always draws huge numbers of people.

Just my thoughts.

+1 for AC
 

about time they accommodate the collectors from the best state in the country..NEW YORK...

nice to be able to DRIVE to a National for once, and not have to FLY...

Drive? Let's take a helicopter from NYC! :)

I was told that Baltimore was booked up on all these dates for that time of the year. I think its 2019 for the next National in Baltimore. There suppose to be an open date for a year & San Francisco would be another great place to have the National.

Yep... I agree Texas would be a Brilliant choice... I'm sure Beckett would roll out the red carpet... I'd love to go to my 1st one anywhere other than their past normal sites... Although Baltimore I'm sure would of been a treat... Looks lke Chicago or AC will be my 1st

I've read on blogs complaining that the National is mostly a vintage, high-dollar card affair and there is limited emphasis on new cards.

http://www.sportscardsuncensored.com...oming-extinct/


I'd guess 70% of the tables at the National are devoted to older stuff. Kids would be mostly drawn to newer stuff. Mike Trout excites them more than Mickey Mantle because his cards are more obtainable than the Mick in their mind and they can see/relate to him better.

Our hobby is vast and yes there is $$$ to be made, but the National doesn't seem to serve the diversity of the field that it could. I haven't got a clue as to how to change it, but that is what I see.

Another issue with the National requirements that puzzles me is their requirement for 18,000 sq. feet minimum(or whatever it is). The National only has about 500-700 tables--far from the 1000 tables there were 20 years ago. Maybe the committee has priced themselves out by having too many strict requirements??? Other events are held at the convention centers and they probably have to deal with the same requirements as the National committee, so it's somewhat of a headscratcher as to why the committee would limit itself to mostly Chicago and Cleveland.

Craig H.

Not sure where you get your info but it's so far off I don't know where to start? First of all....18000 square feet? really.....how about almost exactly 20x that amount to hold a National. Minimum is about 325,000+ square feet. Then, 500-700 tables....well, how about 1100-1200, but who's counting? Strict requirements, no not really. It's called capitalism and they do it as a profit center, not as a benevolence event. No head scratcher at all if you have all of the correct information. And as far a catering to young folks, well, the last 12 of them I have been to had quite a few young folks but not enough. I actually think the hobby, with the internet the way it is, has grown over the last 30 yrs. It has made everyone be able to collect on so much more of a wide scale, and brought everyone together, I think it is more healthy than ever. If anyone doesn't think so just look at auction prices .....Just my view, nothing personal.....

Craig does have ONE aspect right
 

These shows are no where near being Kid orented, even if the yougsters come and get free admission with Daddy or Mommy -- the parent has already shlled out $25 for admission plus any fees for parking (Chicago is cheap if you use the MTA station at about $5) and any food, etc.

We should ask for lower admission fees, at some point we might eliminate any walk ups at that price.

Now free is too cheap, but IMHO only, a $10 admission charge is sufficient but that is just me

Rich

I agree as I said "well, the last 12 of them I have been to had quite a few young folks but not enough"


As for the admission cost I agree too, However, we aren't the ones incurring the expenses so we don't know exactly what they are and what it takes to be profitable.

simple..
 

they need to add a batting cage and pitching speed cage to give the kids something PHYSICAL to do, then they have fun...

i have thrown out my arm plenty of times at yankee stadium trying to get to 90MPH in the pitching cage (smartly placed by the booze section)...

Admission Charge
 

Just as with the NY Yankees, at some point the admission charge will end up scaring away anyone but the most "corporate" types.

The only problem iwth $25 is that it scares away peoiple from just shwing up and at some point the nice families, such as we have who come to shows like the Craig Ranch McKinney, TX show (last month was an exception as we were very slow in terms of people) prefer the free admission.

Now the National can not and should not be free, but perhaps a lower admission cost might actually bring in some new people to attend. If I have $100 to send and $35 or so is spent on parking and admssion I only have $65 left for the vendors.

If I know to park at the MTA (or even take the MTA) and then spend $10 to attend - I have $85 to spend with the vendors. Plus, and I do not know this for sure, but I suspect in this case, lower admission costs would bring in more people.

What this does, is ask more people to buy badges up front.

Just my 1cent (because Leon's quarter is more valuable) worth

Rich

There have been throwing cages with pitching radar machines at some of the Nationals. I know because I did it once. I was in tennis shoes, flat ground and am an old man...and think I threw 68 MPH...which for the folks around me doing it, it was pretty good.

I agree Scott. I think if you look at the MLB All-Star FanFest and the NFL Experience at the Super Bowl it will validate that statement.

I remember going to the National in St. Louis back in the '90s and they had a goal post where you could actually try to kick field goals. I think I was good from up to about 12 yards. I was pretty proud of myself :)

and in cleveland
 

there is that ferris wheel or whatever that is in the middle of the show floor and yes that is operative.

In Cleveland's Case -- the Downtown Convention Centrer would be a better fit for most people IMHO

glad you didnt hurt your "bidding arm"

Leon,

I never claimed I knew the specifics. I pulled those figures out of my butt. You are right there are 350,000 sq ft of space. But the website clearly states there are only 600 dealers and corporate displays. There used to be 1000. (I should have meant dealers not tables). The point was that the hobby seems to have consolidated somewhat(fewer dealers, fewer collectors, less $$$ available than 20 years' ago) yet the expectations have gotten larger???

http://nsccshow.com/show_details.shtml

I just think it's odd that the promoters make it seem like the only place viable to have a convention is in Chicago or Cleveland when other industries under the same circumstances regularly book events in other cities. This is largely what everyone has been complaining about--not that it is easy or cheap to set these things up.

The details as to why the National stays in those cities has been discussed before yet it appears people are not satisfied with the answers. I agree with you in that I do not really care where it is hosted. I've accepted the reasons as it is but apparently a lot of people do not feel that way.

Craig H.

I would think your two options as a promoter would be to move it around a lot, or not at all. The first to take advantage of a different local and regional collector base each year, the second to just lock it in with a good deal from the convention center based on consistency, and for simplicity of planning for attendees. Why the swing between Chicago and Cleveland, which aren't that far apart anyway? And I don't get Atlantic City at all.

I will NEVER
 

understand the choice of Cleveland all these times Cleveland has always SUCKED for me. sorry thats as nice as i can put it. I do not really set up much anymore and will almost definitely not be setting up in Cleveland. Oh well good thing I don't do this for a living anymore. I actually lost money in Cleveland one year at a national? that is hard to do. Terrible venue not much in local collectors, poor choice for such frequent visits. Must be cheap so the board can pocket more money for themselves because Ive heard many similar complaints over the years.

They have complex issues when selecting a city for the National. The venue availability, minimum size venue, union issues, costs, etc,...

They have decreased the number of dealer tables over the last few years to be able to select smaller venues in new cities (ie Boston) in future years, but it appears they've gone back to their rotation of Cleveland and Chicago. And, I don't know what the reason was for choosing Atlantic City.

With all due respect to Glyn (Hi Glyn !!!) and others, I happen to really like Cleveland. For me, it's only a 6 hour drive, driving & parking at the expo center is trivial and I enjoy the downtown area at night.

I'll never forget 2007 in Cleveland, when we were forced to use the 2-wheel configuration of our handtruck because the union, who would motor your stuff out for $250, wouldn't allow 4 wheels on the ground. So we hauled maybe eight loads during a monsoon through the parking lot while the union guys sat on their carts with nothing to do. That really made me want to come back to Cleveland.

Now, who would object to the convention being in Palm Beach? Brand new Convention center too!

At least then the Hawaiian shirts & jean shorts would fit the climate...

I've only attended 1 national and it was Anaheim in the 80's and I stumbled through the door with my Dad and my Brother. We walked away with a primo Brett rookie for $3.

If they go to New Orleans or Hawaii, I could see going. Otherwise it's Bagger's, and Sterling, and ebay for me.

what's the difference between calling something "the national" and calling something "the east coast national" if the national never hits anything west of chicago?

a/c
 

I am stoked:D

This is the one you will all meet me at:)

Can you really approach 90 MPH?? If so, WOW and hats off to you.;)

No Boston show.:( I guess it would cost too much. The hotels are expensive from what I've heard.

they jsut need to make 4 regional shows and east , west , south and north coast natoinals.

No, just two. One west of the Rockies in February and one east of the Mississippi in August. I would be happy with that :)

If REA sees a need/demand for two events a year, why not two Nationals?

around 1993
 

some of the then major promoter tried the "regional" National concept. that did not work and frankly there should only be one National a year. The amound of work needed for two is not a doable concept plus very few if any of the corporates, and remember the cor[orates are more important than we are, would go to two in a year

Rich

instead of regions, just call it summer national and fall national, but have one west of chicago.

Chicago is hardly what you would call the West. A national in California (San Diego , Los Angeles, etc) that would be a west show.

He said "West of Chicago". He did not say that Chicago was in the west.

AC?
 

AC is not a good idea.

Whatever money people bring to spend on cards, they waste the night before in the casinos.

I'm Selfish
 

Sorry guys, I am very selffish :D, but I love Chicago and Cleveland. I'm from Fort Wayne, Indiana which is smack dab right in the middle of both cities- about 3 1/2 hours away from each. So I love it when it is in both cities! I love Cleveland so much better because it is so much more affordable. Al Capone's family must still have interest in the concessions because the food and drink prices are outrageous in Chicago! Sorry, but the truth hurts. $25 to get in this year at the door is rediculous!

It would be nice if they considered the west coast every once in a while. They've had it in Anaheim a couple of times, why not there? They have the Angels and other good attractions. What about San Diego, San Jose or San Francisco?

Oh well, I guess I'll try for Cleveland next year...

Agree, San Diego is a no brainer!

My latest Rich's Ramblings
 

covers this discussion

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com...-the-national/

Enjoy

Rich

Chi, Cleve, Chi, Cleve and on and on and on. The board picked the best possible sights. BS. The board should get their heads out of their a$$es and turn the show back into a REAL national, or give it up to someone who will. This same old same old is not getting any new collectors at all into the market. You dealers better get your brains working as the current shows will dry up for buyers.

Great article. Thank you.

Re: National Locations Annnounced Through 2019
 

I'm going to chime in with my two cents.

I can recall attending the very First National at the Marroitt Hotel in
Los Angeles. It was a novel concept. The National not only allowed
dealers from across the country to meet annually, but the show
changed location each year to allow people from all areas of the
country to participate. Remember, there was no E-Bay, Internet or
the like, so to have the big show come to a city near you was a real
treat.

After the 2006 National left Anaheim, something happened. I do
recall reading how East Coast dealers complained about traveling
out West and that pretty much put an end to the West cost being
considered for future venues.

With the exception of Atlantic City in 2016 and Baltimore in 2012
and 2010 the National has settled for Chicago and Cleveland. I've
put together a list of all the Nationals from 1980-2019. See below:

Perhaps it it time for the powers to be to take a step back and refocus.
Who is their audience? What is their mission and how can they get
back to the concept of being a true "National" show for all areas of
the country to participate.

ErikV


National Locations:

2019 Chicago
2018 Cleveland
2017 Chicago
2016 Atlantic City
2015 Chicago
2014 Cleveland
2013 Chicago
2012 Baltimore
2011 Chicago
2010 Baltimore
2009 Cleveland
2008 Chicago
2007 Cleveland
2006 Anaheim
2005 Chicago
2004 Cleveland
2003 Atlantic City
2002 Chicago
2001 Cleveland
2000 Anaheim
1999 Atlanta
1998 Chicago
1997 Cleveland
1996 Anaheim
1995 St Louis
1994 Houston
1993 Chicago
1992 Atlanta
1991 Anaheim
1990 Arlington
1989 Chicago
1988 Atlantic City
1987 San Francisco
1986 Arlington
1985 Anaheim
1984 Parsippany N.J.
1983 Chicago
1982 St Louis
1981 Detroit
1980 Los Angeles


12 Chicago
7 Cleveland
6 Anaheim/L.A.
3 Atlantic City
2 Arlington
2 Atlanta
2 Baltimore
2 St Louis
1 Detroit
1 Houston
1 Parsippany N.J.
1 San Francisco

Given this schedule, my preference would be that they just park it in Chicago. Getting to Atlantic City from the West Coast will be an all-day adventure. And, when you finish, you're in Atlantic City...

Mike Berkus has a tough job and I appreciate that he's willing to keep putting in the work year after year to make this show happen. I'll be at my 11th straight one this year.

Bill

I think something that is lost in this discussion is that the Chicago and Cleveland shows are very well attended and dealers report excellent sales. Obviously, I'm biased because I live in the Chicago area and love having the National here. It's a tremendous show. If you haven't been to one, you MUST go. The amount of cards and memorabilia on display, along with rarity, variety and beauty, is staggering.

Also, if you're coming to my fair city next month, here's a tip on some off-the-beaten-path places to see:

Check out Graceland Cemetery at 4001 N. Clark, just a short walk from Wrigley Field, burial place of fighter Jack Johnson and other historical figures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graceland_Cemetery).

Also check out Oak Woods Cemetery on the South Side (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Woods_Cemetery), burial place of Cap Anson and Kenesaw Mountain Landis, to name a few.

I agree, Bill. Just park it in one place. I'd rather that one place be Baltimore since I really like the central city location of that facility with the restaurants and everything right there as well as the airport close. But, Chicago suburbs is OK. AC will be an adventure for sure.

Keep it in Chicago or move it to a different place every year. Going to Cleveland every other year is supposed to "keep it from getting stale?" Please.

just call it the chicago national, is that a crime?

otherwise move it around,

i think a number of east coast dealers like the excuses of floor size, guarantees, unions, etc. to give cover to the fact that they don't want to bring their stuff any farther west than chicago.

I don't have a problem with the show...just don't call it a national... -_-

I enjoyed the LA and SF ones...

Ricky Y