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-   Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   "Possibly doctored" cards at the National..... (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=270499)

Leon 07-20-2019 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeerGut (Post 1900659)
Who gave the power to the TPGs? The people. Card community buys the product blindly resulting in power shift to where it now stands.

Are MLB players overpaid? Millions to play a game but NOT overpaid because the fans buy the product

"Mike" drop
They get paid millions because the club owners make even more off of them. The TPGs thrive, regardless of their abilities, because people make money off of them. The answer to seemingly crazy things is usually; money. I am not saying it's necessarily bad as I am a capitalist too.

1952boyntoncollector 07-20-2019 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeerGut (Post 1900658)
Calvin! Does this mean there are NO cards that are raw that are not altered? So it is not worthwhile to send any more cards in to any TPG? It is either already graded or raw and altered. Thats it. Close down the TPGs there are no more cards to grade
"Mike" drop
The guys that found the mantle in the attic, inherited them or whatever , and have have zero invested in it and can submit in for grading and can do that all day. but why ask for 10,000 for a card or pay for that on a raw card..

He is basically talking about in the long run. Some are legit but its an unwise gamble. Some people win in vegas, most lose.....

Fuddjcal 07-20-2019 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeerGut (Post 1900658)
Calvin! Does this mean there are NO cards that are raw that are not altered? So it is not worthwhile to send any more cards in to any TPG? It is either already graded or raw and altered. Thats it. Close down the TPGs there are no more cards to grade
"Mike" drop
oh, there are many many cards to grade. Just crack them out of the stupid plastic, dip, color, trim and repeat. That's all that has been done since inception anyway. recycled fake cards is all that's left.

Fuddjcal 07-20-2019 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny630 (Post 1892238)
Don’t buy any big ticket items at the National. Save your money and wait for
the hobby to get hit considerably before you buy a big item. If the card market doesn’t go down you missed it so what you’ll have cash and right now I’d rather be cash heavy and card light then card heavy and cash light.
I will never bring a black light to a show a 10x coin Loupe will be my only weapon along with 20/20.

In my opinion for anything positive to happen a considerable downtrend and amount of money loss has to occur for everyone involved kinda like a take your lumps and bumps get hit then grow. If the collector/investor keeps fueling money to tpg’s ,auction houses, and dealers things will never change for the better. It happens to the US stock market ever so often then it always pops back stronger then ever...it will be healthy in the long run to the hobby. To many people are addicted to cards. I just hope they lay off them and can control themselves for a couple of years until the smoke clears.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av1colGry9s




"I was a 3 bird a day pusstycat before I found BA". BA can help you.

orly57 07-20-2019 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeerGut (Post 1900658)
Calvin! Does this mean there are NO cards that are raw that are not altered? So it is not worthwhile to send any more cards in to any TPG? It is either already graded or raw and altered. Thats it. Close down the TPGs there are no more cards to grade
"Mike" drop
Of course there are high dollar raw cards out there that haven’t been altered. They are in basements and private collections. They are NOT at the National. Why would a dealer have a raw 52 mantle, when psa is 10 feet away? The answer is: it’s already been graded and received an “A” or a grade that was not satisfactory to the dealer. He thinks he can sell it to a treasure hunter raw for more than he would have with the grade it received. Jeff’s point is that experienced dealers don’t buy booths at the National, spend money on travel and hotel expenses, etc so they can leave money on the table. Sure, you can find a raw t206 common that will grade a bit higher than you paid, but it’s not happening with high dollar cards. If a raw 52 mantle looks like a 5 and the dealer wants psa 4-5 prices for it, rest assured it once sat in a 3 holder or worse. It’s just common sense.

Aquarian Sports Cards 07-20-2019 10:27 AM
Wonder if you could make a killing selling black lights and loupes at the show

orly57 07-20-2019 10:30 AM
If psa graders can’t spot doctored cards in the comfort of their offices, with all the tools and gadgets, I’m not sure that some dude with a black light and pocket magnifying glass is going to be single-handedly uncovering rampant fraud at the National.

Peter_Spaeth 07-20-2019 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by orly57 (Post 1900689)
Of course there are high dollar raw cards out there that haven’t been altered. They are in basements and private collections. They are NOT at the National. Why would a dealer have a raw 52 mantle, when psa is 10 feet away? The answer is: it’s already been graded and received an “A” or a grade that was not satisfactory to the dealer. He thinks he can sell it to a treasure hunter raw for more than he would have with the grade it received. Jeff’s point is that experienced dealers don’t buy booths at the National, spend money on travel and hotel expenses, etc so they can leave money on the table. Sure, you can find a raw t206 common that will grade a bit higher than you paid, but it’s not happening with high dollar cards. If a raw 52 mantle looks like a 5 and the dealer wants psa 4-5 prices for it, rest assured it once sat in a 3 holder or worse. It’s just common sense.
The Battlefield business model. I mean Candiman. I mean, whoever they are now.

Gnep31 07-20-2019 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrysloate (Post 1892747)
The grading services have so influenced this hobby that even if you have a perfectly good unaltered and original raw card, you simply can't sell it without offering a deep discount. You are forced to get it graded whether you want to or not. The perception would be that it is altered and was rejected.

The graders have too much power. Power to the people!
I 100% agree!

I've never bought a graded card nor will I ever. I'm a collector not an investor and this is my hobby, so I have no need for over priced/graded cards to put in my portfolio.

In my opinion graded cards have made it more difficult for set builders like myself to complete sets with nice, ungraded cards. How will I ever find a decent condition 52 Mantle, which is ungraded, to finish the set? Not likely to happen and I believe graded cards have had a negative impact on the hobby for collectors.

Aquarian Sports Cards 07-20-2019 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by orly57 (Post 1900698)
If psa graders can’t spot doctored cards in the comfort of their offices, with all the tools and gadgets, I’m not sure that some dude with a black light and pocket magnifying glass is going to be single-handedly uncovering rampant fraud at the National.
Not what I meant. I meant selling the devices. maybe a high energy demonstration, draw some attention.

Arazi4442 07-20-2019 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1900667)
The guys that found the mantle in the attic, inherited them or whatever , and have have zero invested in it and can submit in for grading and can do that all day. but why ask for 10,000 for a card or pay for that on a raw card..

He is basically talking about in the long run. Some are legit but its an unwise gamble. Some people win in vegas, most lose.....
Wait a minute, some people win in Vegas? That has NOT been my experience.

1952boyntoncollector 07-21-2019 07:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arazi4442 (Post 1900812)
Wait a minute, some people win in Vegas? That has NOT been my experience.
yeah the people that put everything on black and if win leave and go home....those about the only winners.. and the people that bet the Nationals to win the NL this year... who will either win bet or have a great hedge..

Den*nis O*Brien 07-21-2019 11:56 AM
WOW..Blast From The Past....
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsFan1941 (Post 1892834)
except around Gizmo
I am surprised to see that name resurface!! Years ago I met him at the waffle bar in a motel while the expressway was closed from snow & Ice. The encounter was in Mendota Illinois. He was very displeased with the treatment he was receiving on Net 54 Baseball Forum. He was the all caps rant guy if I remember correctly.

steve B 07-21-2019 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1900903)
yeah the people that put everything on black and if win leave and go home....those about the only winners.. and the people that bet the Nationals to win the NL this year... who will either win bet or have a great hedge..
My brother "won"

We were visiting on a camping trip and stopped in a casino to go to the buffet. (All you can eat, so in a way I "won" too being a hungry high school kid. especially at the soft serve ice cream dispenser:) )
Someone hit a dollar slot for more than he could carry, and my brother being 8 followed along picking up the dropped silver dollars.
Security got involved.
They brought over the winner, still carrying an armload of coins, and gave dad a lecture about letting his kid steal. letting was a stretch, none of us even knew.
About 30 seconds into the lecture the guy asked "how much did the kid get? My brother showed him 2 fistfuls of dollars, around $11 which isn't bad for an 8 year old.
The guy was like " you brought me all the way over here for $11?! let the kid keep it! and walked away to cash in his dollars.


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