Are you sure that is not a Brave or Red Sox next to carlton? Might be dark green

You’re right, I was thinking the Mets and Senators are dark green but it’s actually the Red Sox and Braves who are dark green.

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I think it has to be either Grote or the O's Rookies, despite his low counts - hear me out.

All the other gray cards are either 1) on the left edge, 2) have a known card that ISN'T Rowe to their left, or 3) have pop counts even lower than Grote.

I just finished putting together a '65 set and both cards, but especially the the Orioles Rookies, command a lot of attention and a price higher than the player depicted would suggest. I think there is reason to believe that either, but again especially the O's Rookies, could be a high demand card to the point of making its pop counts seem lower than that of a typical 4x card.

Thoughts?

I think you’re right, even though Grote doesn’t have large quantities he could very well be a 4x, this is his first solo card and he was a very popular ‘69 Met. I don’t think the Orioles Rookie Stars card with Davey Johnson and Paul Blair is a 4x because it might be the lowest quantity card in the whole series.

I think I am wrong about the Indians Rookie Stars being the 7th and final header card, I now think Ted Wills is the 7th header card. That would make Elston Howard the card under Wills on the miscut. I have been puzzled why I could never find a miscut showing the top of the Ted Wills back, if he is a header card that would explain that. It didn't make sense for Wills to be above Freese because Wills is obviously a 3x and he didn't fit in being on the same row as Boyer and Pavletich because they are 4x cards. If Wills is the 7th header card to go along with Stu Miller, Bob Priddy, Jim Owens, Ed Mathews, Joel Horlen, and Elston Howard the question is who is the third 4x header card to go along with Horlen and Owens. I now believe that is Wills under Mathews on the miscut. ETA Dewey was right and I was wrong.

Concur all around - so the LE cards then are Mathews, Owens, Howard, Priddy, Horlen, Wills and Miller.

Miller and Wills are clearly 3x, and Horlen and Owens are clearly 4x.

The remaining 4x candidates are Mathews, Howard and Priddy. Mathews and Howard's counts are low, and if they were commons I'd give the 4x award to Priddy even though his counts don't seem to me to be clearly in the 4x range.
But they aren't commons, so supply could simply be low due to demand.

I think we need to find horizontal miscuts of one or more of these three to tell for sure.

Thoughts?

1965 Topps series 6
 

The counts on Priddy aren't that far below those of Mota, Ron Locke, Yankees TC, so he might be a 4x

This Howard popped today on ebay - to his right lies a red-bordered card. At first I thought it was a Yankee or Pirate, but when I blew it up, it seems clearly red.

The only candidates which aren't already known to have a match on their left sides are Aguirre, Hoeft, Kennedy and the Tigers Rookie Starts. All of these, plus Howard, are in the 3x range, so none can be eliminated that way.

You can't see any traces of the adjacent card on the reverse - I thought I saw a couple spots that might have been black ink - below the 499 run total and under USA in the copyright, but I think they are both effects of the edge itself.

Looking at Hoeft, Aguirre and Kennedy - they all have writing which might be able to be seen. The Tigers RS reverse lettering all begins lower on the card than those three, so I tend to think the card next to Howard is Tigers RS.

Thoughts?

1965 series 6
 

Do you think it is possible that it is a checklist? One of the checklists is supposed to be in column 2 if the patterns from the other series were followed.

I hadn't thought about the checklists. I compared, and the white portion of the checklist is closer to the card edge than the black text on the rookie cards, so my suspicion is still Tigers Rookies Stars.

I think it's ultimately too close to call though, so I'm not going to place it.

Earl Battey?
 

Found this Battey on eBay today. I thought for certain I'd be able to ID the card above him, but after several attempts I keep coming up empty. The likeliest candidate may be Cloninger, but there'd be more black ink on the Battey side. See what you think...

It can also be Nottebart, Ellis, Horlen, or Azcue. ETA I noticed that it lines up with the center of the baseball and Cloninger is the only one that does so you are probably right.

Found this Gagliano with an Oriole or Astro to his left.

I have Gagliano as an all-but-certainly 4x.

These O's and Astros I have as likely or certainly 3xs so they would not be candidates: Grote, Miller, O's Rookies, Nottebart, Siebern.

These likely or probably 4xs could be his neighbor:
Rowe, Owens, Fox.

Sadly, none of these can be take out of the running automatically because we don't have any of them paired with anyone to their right yet.

Thoughts?

1965 Topps series 6
 

I show Fox with Cloninger to his right. I have Owens with Harrelson to the right. And, even though the counts on Grote suggest he might be a 3x, those counts may be deflated because he is/was a popular Met. I think Cliff possibly put Grote to the right of Rowe.

Gene Stephens, a definite 4x, has a black card to his left (Yankees TC) and a black card to his right, which might be Gagliano.

Attachment 666060

1965 series 6
 

However, this is pretty strong evidence that it is an Oriole or Astro next to Gagliano. So perhaps it is not Harrelson next to Owen, but rather Gagliano? However, to me, the trademark location on the Gagliano miscut looks more like that on the Grote card, not those on the Rowe or Owens cards.

Attachment 666063

[QUOTE=Kevvyg1026;2526061]I show Fox with Cloninger to his right. I have Owens with Harrelson to the right. [QUOTE]

I think I am wrong now about Harrelson being to the right of Owens. It probably is Owens to the left of Gagliano, Owens has a black border card to his right. I will have to go back and look at all of the possibilities tonight.

I don't think I'd seen that Deans Gagliano with the exposed edge on the reverse. I think it has to be Owens - counts suggest it strongly, and if you look closely at the blue/white border on the adjacent card, there is a slight defect/bump right where the curve begins that seems to be consistent with other Owens cards I've seen.

If true, this places Gagliano, Allen, Angels Rookies 517 and Mota in column 2, and we have Cardinals Rookies in #3.

1965 Topps series 6
 

When I match the resolutions for the back of the Rowe, Owens, Grote, and Gagliano MC, it appears to me that the trademark location on Owens matches that on the Gagliano MC perfectly.

Now, the problem I'm having is that either the Angels RS is not above Gagliano, or else, the Fox-Cloninger-Angels RS run, which I thought was solid, is incorrect.

Also, a checklist should be in Col 2, if the pattern of every other slit was maintained, as described below.

In series 1, col 2 had check 2, Col 11 had both checklist 1s.
In series 2, col 2 had check 2, col 11 had check 3
In series 3, col 2 had check 4, col 11 had check 3
In series 4, col 2 had check 4, col 11 had check 5
In series 5, col 2 had check 6, col 11 had check 5,
In series 7, col 2 had no check, col 11 had check 7

So, I expect that in Series 6, col 2 will have check 6, col 11 check 7. The check 6 variation in series 6 should be the one with the "full m" shown on the back near card 481.

1965 series 6 reconstruction
 

I have the 7 header cards for this series as (# in parentheses):

Horlen (480), Owens (451), Mathews (500), Howard (450), Priddy (482), Miller (499), and Wills (488).

We also have 2nd column cards:
Mota (463, next to Horlen),
Gagliano (498, next to Owens), and
Richie Allen (460, under Gagliano, perhaps next to Mathews).

So, we need 4 more col 2 cards. There is a sliver of red next to Howard, which might be Tiger RS, and I speculate that check6 is also a column 2 card, based on prior printing patterns for the 1965 set.

I have not seen any right side miscuts for Miller, Priddy, or Wills.

At one point, it was suggested that Angels RS was above Gagliano, but that can't be accurate if the Fox-Cloninger-Angels RS run is correct. Can someone post that Angels RS card miscut?

There are two different 4x Angels Rookie Stars in the 1965 6th Series, one has Egan and the other has Schaal. The one with Egan is to the right of Cloninger, the one with Schaal is above Gagliano. I have Gagliano under Angels Rookie Stars (Schaal) and Gagliano above Richie Allen, I don't have anything else connected to Angels Rookie Stars (Schaal), Gagliano, or Allen.

Well, that's pretty conclusive that Angels RS (517) is above Gagliano and is in Col 2. I show Owens below Horlen, who is a 4x, but has Mota next to him. However, I also have Owens under Priddy, so perhaps Priddy is the other 4x card and Schaal is the col 2 card next to Priddy??

I’m not convinced that Gagliano is to the right of Owens although it is very possible because Owens has a black border card to his right and Gagliano has a Astro/Oriole to his left and they are both 4x. I think it is still possible that Grote or Nottebart are to the left of Gagliano.

Found this today - Niekro is a right edge card.

Is this the first confirmed right edge card we have? I don't have any others yet besides Niekro.

1965 series 6
 

We've had niekro as a right edge card for quite a while since he's a wrong back of Elston Howard. Vern law should also be a right edge card and dodgers rookie stars is a right edge card. Checklist 7 should also be a right edge card

Ah...well there goes my endorphine rush from earlier this morning.

Do we have images of the Dodgers RS and Law? I reviewed this thread and didn't see them.

1965 series 6
 

Found one Dodgers RS with a way right edge.

The Law surmise is based on finding both Niekro and Law with a line.

Checklist 7 should be there as well, based on the pattern used for every other series.

I suspect that a couple of rookie star cards are also there, but I havn't found conclusive evidence yet for those.

Attachment 666604

Attachment 666605

Attachment 666606

Attachment 666607

Attachment 666608

Although this series is very difficult to attempt a complete reconstruction because of the paucity of miscuts, it appears to me that most of the 4x cards have known horizontal miscuts, so some connection might be possible for those 4x rows.

e.g., There is Horlen-Mota-Cards RS (Carlton)-dark green card and there is also a Geiger-Locke-Ellis-Piche_Rowe-gray card. Is it possible that Geiger is the dark green to the right of Carlton?

There is also a NYY team-Stephens-black and a Harrelson-Kostro-Fox-Cloninger-Angels RS (486). Perhaps Harrelson is next to Stephens?

And there is a Stange-Odell-Rakow-Mele-Dodgers RS as another part of a 4x run, so that might be in the third 4x row??

And finally, a black card-Boyer-Pavletich, an Owens-Gagliano, perhaps Priddy-Angels RS (517), and Indians RS-Aguirre

I have scans of the Mets Rookie Stars being a right edge card, I will post them tonight.

Yes, that is one of the RS cards I suspect is a right edge card, but the miscut I saw wasn't conclusive enough for me to call.

Here is the 1965 Topps Mets Rookie Stars that has a wavy right edge that would result from the two slits being separated by a wavy hand cut which was prevalent in the 60's.

I had never realized this before - wavy/hand cuts can be used to determine edge cards even if there isn't enough real estate on the image to tell that way?

That's good to know.

[QUOTE=Kevvyg1026;2527284]Found one Dodgers RS with a way right edge.

The Law surmise is based on finding both Niekro and Law with a line.

Checklist 7 should be there as well, based on the pattern used for every other series.

I suspect that a couple of rookie star cards are also there, but I havn't found conclusive evidence yet for those.

The pattern on this 5th series full sheet is 5th series checklist in the right edge column, and 6th in the 2nd column.

So, wouldn't that make it in our 6th series slits the 6th series checklist as a right edge card and the 7th checklist in column 2?

1965 Topps series 6 reconstruction
 

For the checklists in 1965, this is what I observed:

In series 1, col 2 had check 2, Col 11 had both checklist 1s.
In series 2, col 2 had check 2, col 11 had check 3
In series 3, col 2 had check 4, col 11 had check 3
In series 4, col 2 had check 4, col 11 had check 5
In series 5, col 2 had check 6, col 11 had check 5,
In series 7, col 2 had no check, col 11 had check 7

So, it appeared to me that when a checklist was repeated in the following series, it was placed in the same column as it had been in the prior series. In other words, the even-numbered checklists appeared in column 2, irrespective of which printing, while the odd-numbered checklists appeared in column 11. That is why I expect that in the Series 6 printing, col 2 will have check 6, since check 6 was in col 2 during the 5th series printing and is an even number while check 7 should be in col 11 since it is in col 11 for the 7th series printing and is an odd number.

The check 6 variation in series 6 should be the one with the "full m" shown on the back near card 481.

1965 series 6 reconstruction
 

Found this mc of Nottebart, #469. Looks to me like Joe Christopher is to the right.

That gives a horizontal run of Met/Sen -Don Nottebart-Joe Christopher-George Smith on a 3x row

Attachment 666990

Nice find, I had Nottebart as a possible 4x but this firmly makes him a 3x.

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