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-   -   Eddie Cicotte's HOF chances - should he get in? Will he? (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=361119)

jingram058 05-18-2025 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul (Post 2516613)
If Cicotte makes it into the HOF, I will be very surprised. People forget that Cicotte was eligible from 1936 until about 1991 when the HOF passed the rule barring all players on MLB's permanent ineligible list. In all that time, as far as I can tell, he never received a single vote from the writers, and he was never elected by any of the veterans' committees. I suspect he never got any votes from the veterans' committees, but they had secret ballots at the time, so I can't know for sure.

It seems to me that the writers and committees repeatedly made the judgment that Cicotte is not worthy of the HOF because he deliberately threw the World Series. Unless today's veterans' committee has a wildly different opinion about the morality of throwing a World Series, the vote today will be the same.

Pete Rose is a different case because the writers and veterans' committees have never decided whether Rose's sins should keep him out of the HOF.
What about Jackson? Is his situation different?

frankbmd 05-18-2025 06:32 PM
I am not old enough to have gotten Eddie's signature in person, but did get his grandnephew Al Cicotte in person in 1957.

https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...598/cicotte-al

He was a 10 game winner over 5 seasons in the late 50s. He's not borderline. In fact he can't even see the border. :D

paul 05-18-2025 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jingram058 (Post 2516619)
What about Jackson? Is his situation different?
I think Joe Jackson is the same. If the veterans didn't vote for him in 1990, why would they vote for him now? On the other hand, there's been a lot of public sympathy building for Jackson, so you never know for sure.

sacentaur 05-19-2025 12:55 PM
I saw mention that the 3 (of 8) players who gave incriminating statements to the grand jury later saw their confessions go “missing”, thus contributing to an acquittal at trial.

Anyone have more info on this detail?

ThomasL 05-19-2025 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacentaur (Post 2516757)
I saw mention that the 3 (of 8) players who gave incriminating statements to the grand jury later saw their confessions go “missing”, thus contributing to an acquittal at trial.

Anyone have more info on this detail?
This is a myth and can be read in detail here

https://jacobpomrenke.com/black-sox/...x-confessions/

They were stolen, (more to due with Chicago politics than anything else) but it was not that big of an issue bc they just supplied the court with the stenographers originals to read back for the trial...so no it did not contribute to the acquittal

sacentaur 05-19-2025 05:11 PM
Thanks Thomas.

toledo_mudhen 05-21-2025 06:25 AM
So if Pete Rose manages to get in somehow - Does that have any bearing on what they might do with Cicotte? - Should it have any bearing?

Mark17 05-22-2025 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen (Post 2517061)
So if Pete Rose manages to get in somehow - Does that have any bearing on what they might do with Cicotte? - Should it have any bearing?
There's no evidence Rose ever did anything to lose a game. Managing or playing, Rose was always out to win. Cicotte planned, and then proceeded to purposely lose 2 games in the World Series.

Reinstatement does not mean everybody suddenly forgets what happened. MLB hasn't forgiven, or excused, Cicotte throwing games. He should never get into the HOF. If there was an anti- HOF, he should be placed prominently in that.

jingram058 05-22-2025 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark17 (Post 2517505)
There's no evidence Rose ever did anything to lose a game. Managing or playing, Rose was always out to win. Cicotte planned, and then proceeded to purposely lose 2 games in the World Series.

Reinstatement does not mean everybody suddenly forgets what happened. MLB hasn't forgiven, or excused, Cicotte throwing games. He should never get into the HOF. If there was an anti- HOF, he should be placed prominently in that.
That's it. You hit the nail on the head.

brianp-beme 05-23-2025 01:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jingram058 (Post 2517516)
That's it. You hit the nail on the head.
I agree. No Hall of Fame for Cicotte.

On a side note, and a true story, earlier today I hit a nail on its head, and the dang nail crumpled like it had been brush-backed. Caused a lot of consternation.

Brian

ValKehl 05-23-2025 07:52 AM
Brian, on a front note, and a true suggestion, perhaps you should have hit the nail on its tail.

brianp-beme 05-23-2025 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ValKehl (Post 2517578)
Brian, on a front note, and a true suggestion, perhaps you should have hit the nail on its tail.
Val, I actually did a little nail on the tail action after the steely object of our conversation mightily crumpled, and because of its removal using this procedure, I was able to utilize said cavernous hole it had created for the successful installation of a nail on the straight and narrow.


Brian (surprisingly this post is completely on-topic...but please don't ask me how it is)


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