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-   -   former ebay head Gonzalez purported said psa and jsa suck according to post. (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=155315)

alexautographs 08-17-2012 09:02 AM

You are in many respect correct, Zip...but we dealers are paid for our expertise. If you hire a "plumber" on eBay and get the Three Stooges flooding your house (my favorite episode!), in a way you deserve what you get. Buying on eBay or at shows, if you haven't carefully checked out the seller, is like buying at a flea market - caveat emptor.

And at the risk of sounding snide...why should Travis, Richard, me or any other pro spend our valuable time vetting other people's material for free? My time is $200 an hour. I'll do it for the trade and for friends but professionals don't work for free. Ask Spence.

shelly 08-17-2012 10:05 AM

I have read through this tread and I have not seen a person say they emailed John. I thought that would end all the talk and banter. What I have also read is how many of you are his friends. Do the right think and see if its fact or fiction. John is a good guy and I would love to here what he has to say.

Mr. Zipper 08-17-2012 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexautographs (Post 1026997)
And at the risk of sounding snide...why should Travis, Richard, me or any other pro spend our valuable time vetting other people's material for free?

Fair point, but I was not aware Travis was a professional. In fact, he just said Wednesday, "i am not an authenticator, a dealer, and i haven't made ten cents in the hobby."

Which is odd because I also distinctly recall him stating numerous times that when he sells something, because of his expertise, he gets just as much for it as if it were certed by a TPA. :confused:

In any case, presuming he is primarily a collector, it would have been nice if he shared his expertise in a positive way when he had the opportunity.

Fuddjcal 08-17-2012 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardSimon (Post 1026861)
Fuddj,,, here is the quote from my website:
"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything."
--Alexander Hamilton

I never gave any credit to Malcolm X for that statement.

I'm sorry Richard, somewhere I thought I remember that it was a quote from malcolm X as well, albeit not on your website

alexautographs 08-17-2012 01:19 PM

Forums are dangerous places to vent...

I'm not sure it's entirely fair to pile-on Travis - I don't believe that he's malicious, perhaps just a bit overzealous but I think we would agree that we all have the same ends in mind: seeing that the creators and sellers of fraudulent material are stopped and hopefully jailed. I have a lot of experience in that respect.

It's just that something stinks about TPAs. It seems to me that their bigger customers get everything approved - witness the two Obama baseballs passed, which are both POS. Now, this is just my opinion, of course.

They are also in a position of great power: if they "kill" a piece, it's dead forever, even if it turns out to be authentic. If they authenticate a "bad" piece, it's "real" forever, and I have yet to see them comment on that, let alone withdraw bad certifications (I could be wrong).

I will defer to the Big Two on baseball, which interests me about as much as curling, but what experience do they have with Louis XIV or George S. Patton, or for that matter Britney Spears? 98% of what they've authenticated being sold on eBay is baseball.

Have they made any comment on the Wagner card?

thetruthisoutthere 08-17-2012 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelly (Post 1027018)
I have read through this tread and I have not seen a person say they emailed John. I thought that would end all the talk and banter. What I have also read is how many of you are his friends. Do the right think and see if its fact or fiction. John is a good guy and I would love to here what he has to say.

I wrote to John a few days ago. He says "He's doing fine."

shelly 08-17-2012 06:21 PM

I have tried four times to try and change what I said on the first post. I hope this works. The people on here have just torn to pieces the one person that you would trust over anyone on this site to authenticate a boxing piece. Chris is a friend but did he say John said anything about what was printed. Did he ask him if it was fact. No.
You should all look in that mirror. You smell blood and you go into a feeding frenzy. I have more respect for the people that I served time with. They treated everyone the same respect until you screwed up. I remember during the McCarthy era a great attorney saying these words
You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?Try and be men not little children in a school yard.
Enough said.
P.S. I do have dyslexia so if it sounds a little bit out of context it shows that I am not as perfect as the rest of you which has been told to me many times.

thetruthisoutthere 08-18-2012 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelly (Post 1027234)
I have tried four times to try and change what I said on the first post. I hope this works. The people on here have just torn to pieces the one person that you would trust over anyone on this site to authenticate a boxing piece. Chris is a friend but did he say John said anything about what was printed. Did he ask him if it was fact. No.
You should all look in that mirror. You smell blood and you go into a feeding frenzy. I have more respect for the people that I served time with. They treated everyone the same respect until you screwed up. I remember during the McCarthy era a great attorney saying these words
You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?Try and be men not little children in a school yard.
Enough said.
P.S. I do have dyslexia so if it sounds a little bit out of context it shows that I am not as perfect as the rest of you which has been told to me many times.

I emailed John to find out how he was doing.

Yes, I did ask him about that coward-written article/post. If John did reply to my specific question, I won't divulge here and it's none of anyone's business.. That would be between John and myself. It is up to John if he wants let the hobby public know of his opinion of PSA and JSA.

Who is anyone here to demand what John is thinking about anything!!!

travrosty 08-18-2012 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper (Post 1027078)
Fair point, but I was not aware Travis was a professional. In fact, he just said Wednesday, "i am not an authenticator, a dealer, and i haven't made ten cents in the hobby."

Which is odd because I also distinctly recall him stating numerous times that when he sells something, because of his expertise, he gets just as much for it as if it were certed by a TPA. :confused:

In any case, presuming he is primarily a collector, it would have been nice if he shared his expertise in a positive way when he had the opportunity.


I NEVBER said that BECAUSE of my expertise, i get the same money on my autographs as a tpa. Quit lying.

I have always said that autographs get the same whether tpa or not because they are real, period, whether me or someone else sells them, especially when you have to deduct the 100 dollars it costs to get a psa or jsa from the final selling price. a rocky marciano sig brings in 400- 420 with a tpa cert. it brings in 375 to 400 if not. sometimes it is a 400-400 tie. even allowing for the largest margin, deduct 100 for the cert, and the tpa marciano brings in 320 compared to 375 for the non tpa cert. who won?

I am very experienced in boxing autographs, that makes me a pro in that sense of the word. I haven't made it my profession that i make a living or part of a living off of, but when someone says "he's a real pro!", they are saying he knows his stuff. and in boxing, i do.


i give my opinion for free to my friends that know me, and even to a few new people that get my email from others.

what i dont enjoy is correcting spence and grad over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Then I have just done their work for them and THEY get the 150 bucks and didn't have to be accurate with their work and take my correction and put the notes in their exemplar file. They have just learned from me, cashed the check. Didn't have to be accurate at all, and then they still go out and call themselves super experts.

but we correct them in public to show people they don't know what they are talking about in boxing, we still have a tons more to show.

maybe that is why the email said what it said and people are mad the cat is out of the bag.

Then i get a snide comment that says "if he hasn't written it himself" which is accusing me of writing it, or accusing me of knowing who wrote it. "Travis purportedly knows who wrote it"

Typical tactics used by those who don't like the subject matter to smear. go after the person whom they don't like.

Autograph Magazine Live does the same thing. If you expose something rotten they don't want exposed, you get hit from all sides and eventually banned.

But go after GAI mercilessly all day every day and you get applauded. So there are approved people to rip, and unapproved, and I have seen it before and went through it before.

Ebay guy happened to say in an email what he really felt, and now everyone knows and it is embarrassing to SOME. Not to me as I am in agreement with him.

shelly 08-18-2012 06:54 PM

I have one question to all the people that have had there fun with Travis.
The question is who on this board would you trust the most to authenticate any boxing item.
1 Psa
2 JSA
3 ACE
4 Morales
5 PAAS
6 The Donald
7 Ted Taylor
8 William Tell
9 Drew Max
10 GAI
If None of the above tell me who that might be.
If you make fun of this question which I am sure some people will. Then we are back to the school yard.

RichardSimon 08-18-2012 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelly (Post 1027511)
I have one question to all the people that have had there fun with Travis.
The question is who on this board would you trust the most to authenticate any boxing item.
1 Psa
2 JSA
3 ACE
4 Morales
5 PAAS
6 The Donald
7 Ted Taylor
8 William Tell
9 Drew Max
10 GAI
If None of the above tell me who that might be.
If you make fun of this question which I am sure some people will. Then we are back to the school yard.


From what I have seen the first two should exclude boxing from the list of items that they are willing to authenticate.
I would feel much more comfortable with Travis authenticating boxing then with anyone on the list.

David Atkatz 08-18-2012 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere (Post 1027471)
Who is anyone here to demand what John is thinking about anything!!!

That's rich, coming from someone who is constantly demanding answers to his own questions!

thetruthisoutthere 08-19-2012 08:38 AM

Travis, if John G. really wrote that in an email to someone, why didn't that someone sign his or her name to that article post? Why be a gutless coward about it if it is true? My curiosity is "Why post it anonymously?" The content really is irrelevant in my eyes.

As controversial as Peter Nash may be, he doesn't hide behind a pseudonym or write it anonymously. I respect that.

You see you have to understand something, Travis posted a link to that to get attention. Nothing more, nothing less. And he got what he wanted.

It is purported that Travis does know the author of that article/post. If Travis can use the word purported, why can't anyone else here?

Travis, isn't the author of that article/post, part of the same gang (all using pseudonyms and anonymous posters) that attacks my friends and myself anonymously? If they're going to attack me, why are they such cowards about it? Why are they hiding?

That site recently mentioned Net54 and here's what they wrote:

This is a blog that discusses mostly baseball cards but also autograph collecting. There can be some interesting discussions on this site. But like most sites if the person blogging is not a real name, take it with a grain of salt for it could be your ex getting revenge against you!

Guess what, the coward that posted the above comment, posted it anonymously.

travrosty 08-19-2012 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere (Post 1027639)
Travis, if John G. really wrote that in an email to someone, why didn't that someone sign his or her name to that article post? Why be a gutless coward about it if it is true? My curiosity is "Why post it anonymously?" The content really is irrelevant in my eyes.

As controversial as Peter Nash may be, he doesn't hide behind a pseudonym or write it anonymously. I respect that.

You see you have to understand something, Travis posted a link to that to get attention. Nothing more, nothing less. And he got what he wanted.

It is purported that Travis does know the author of that article/post. If Travis can use the word purported, why can't anyone else here?

Travis, isn't the author of that article/post, part of the same gang (all using pseudonyms and anonymous posters) that attacks my friends and myself anonymously? If they're going to attack me, why are they such cowards about it? Why are they hiding?

That site recently mentioned Net54 and here's is what they wrote:

This is a blog that discusses mostly baseball cards but also autograph collecting. There can be some interesting discussions on this site. But like most sites if the person blogging is not a real name, take it with a grain of salt for it could be your ex getting revenge against you!

Guess what, the coward that posted the above comment, posted it anonymously.


i dont know who wrote it. I know your m.o., keep poking someone until they say something you think can get them in trouble and then take screenshots and then go tell teacher for your little scooby snack. I have no idea who posts there. i used to write articles when it was a forum people could join and write at. I exposed the auction loa mess and others exposed the pawn stars debacle, stories you won't find being broke wide open at scd or autograph magazine live.

if the story was elmo retires from sesame street, i am sure you would spend all this time on it? of course the content is relevant.

You certainly have a lot of questions for the author at anl, keep asking me though.

mr. dragnet type questions aimed at the clouds or at nobody is really funny.

keep this thread going, my threads get all the love. or we could talk about some mickey mantle that sold for $11.45 cents.
'
Lot more threads about the truth "they don't want you to know about" concerning the autograph hobby coming very soon.

thetruthisoutthere 08-19-2012 09:25 AM

The same gutless cowards that wrote the article/post alleging that John G. wrote that email, also wrote the below comment:

The noose is tightening around the fraudsters and their associates like Steve Cyrkin and Roger Epperson, Mysinger andChris Williams. Most of the legitimate hobby has heard, reasoned, and come tothe decision they are all buffoons.

Yes, the same gutless cowards.

They attack people annonymously.

These are the people that Travis is the spokesperson for. Travis has the guts to post his criticisms under his own name, but the cowards remain nameless.

If those people are so righteous, why are they hidiing? Why do they attack attack people annonymously or under psuedonyms?

frankbmd 08-19-2012 09:38 AM

What the autographnewslive website thinks of us -
 
www.net54.com

This is a blog that discusses mostly baseball cards but also autograph collecting. There can be some interesting discussions on this site. But like most sites if the person blogging is not a real name, take it with a grain of salt for it could be your ex getting revenge against you!:eek::eek::eek:

Leon, what's my exwife's handle?

Leon 08-19-2012 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd (Post 1027657)
www.net54.com

This is a blog that discusses mostly baseball cards but also autograph collecting. There can be some interesting discussions on this site. But like most sites if the person blogging is not a real name, take it with a grain of salt for it could be your ex getting revenge against you!:eek::eek::eek:

Leon, what's my exwife's handle?

Hang on, I will go in the other room and ask her :).

RichardSimon 08-19-2012 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd (Post 1027657)
www.net54.com

This is a blog that discusses mostly baseball cards but also autograph collecting. There can be some interesting discussions on this site. But like most sites if the person blogging is not a real name, take it with a grain of salt for it could be your ex getting revenge against you!:eek::eek::eek:

Leon, what's my exwife's handle?

You just got to love:D a website that knocks Net54 for the POSSIBILITY of anonymity, when the writer of said website is totally anonymous.

shelly 08-19-2012 10:45 AM

He said She said should have been over at least 90 threads ago. Time to put it to bed and go on to the next disagreement.:p
Here are a few suggestions. Do you like a left handed players autograph better and why. Do teams that have more players who's names begins with c play better?.If you where to get a famous swimmer to sign something what other than a photo would that be? Last but not least who was the best looking women athlete in the Olympics and why would you like her autograph. That should make for a few arguments.

ss 08-19-2012 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1027665)
Hang on, I will go in the other room and ask her :).


+ 1

danc 08-19-2012 01:17 PM

Travis, you assume people love your threads and give you love because you are "beloved" within, and that simply isn't the case. People just like arguing with you. Don't confuse the two.

We get it, you don't like PSA/DNA or JSA because they make mistakes on Boxing autographs. Do you have more knowledge in that avenue then them? Perhaps. Probably. But the bottom line is that with all due respect, nobody knows who you are outside of the Net54, which is a baseball forum, for the most part. A Randy Turpin autograph with a Travis LOA will bring little attention outside of saying "Who is this Travis guy?".

TPA's (PSA/DNA and JSA) work. That's why people use them. We (the new collector) have been programmed and re-designed to understand that the certificate of authenticity is in fact key (who really cares about what the signature looks like, just look at the Art Shell debacle on the card side) and this is the essential part of the collecting world.

"Does it come with an LOA from PSA/DNA?" is the most often heard words spoken at shows. That's just a fact. Love it or hate it, complaining constantly isn't going to matter, but if it makes you feel like you made some sort of a difference because you type and type and type with an intense fear of the SHIFT key. :-)

I got in contact with John and I asked him if he was interested in commenting through me on his behalf on this thread and he politely declined.

A web site took private comments and made them public with a clear agenda, and then rehashed (which is fine, if you like the message and we know you do) in this thread. Nobody is ever going to confuse anybody on these forums for Woodward and Bernstein.

And I like curling...it's like chess on ice. :)

DanC

thetruthisoutthere 08-19-2012 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danc (Post 1027720)
Travis, you assume people love your threads and give you love because you are "beloved" within, and that simply isn't the case. People just like arguing with you. Don't confuse the two.

We get it, you don't like PSA/DNA or JSA because they make mistakes on Boxing autographs. Do you have more knowledge in that avenue then them? Perhaps. Probably. But the bottom line is that with all due respect, nobody knows who you are outside of the Net54, which is a baseball forum, for the most part. A Randy Turpin autograph with a Travis LOA will bring little attention outside of saying "Who is this Travis guy?".

TPA's work. That's why people use them. We (the new collector) have been programmed and re-designed to understand that the certificate of authenticity is in fact key (who really cares about what the signature looks like, just look at the Art Shell debacle on the card side) and this is the essential part of the collecting world.

"Does it come with an LOA from PSA/DNA?" is the most often heard words spoken at shows. That's just a fact. Love it or hate it, complaining constantly isn't going to matter, but if it makes you feel like you made some sort of a difference because you type and type and type with an intense fear of the SHIFT key. :-)

I got in contact with John and I asked him if he was interested in commenting through me on his behalf on this thread and he politely declined.

A web site took private comments and made them public with a clear agenda, and then rehashed (which is fine, if you like the message and we know you do) in this thread. Nobody is ever going to confuse anybody on these forums for Woodward and Bernstein.

And I like curling...it's like chess on ice. :)

DanC

Well written, Danny.

shelly 08-19-2012 04:17 PM

I have no Idea who Danny C is but if he likes that broom sport from up north he can't really be a bad guy. He must be from one of those little cities in the US that only get Canadian tv. :D I have to say that some of the most beautiful Oriental women do Canadian broadcasting.

RichardSimon 08-19-2012 04:35 PM

I think I know who DanC is Shelly :D. He is one of those weird guys who would like curling :D.
I do believe he is an autograph guy with a nice but smallish ebay store. :D:D. (with zero PSA LOA's I believe).
I just want to say to him and others here, that maybe at shows autograph dealers do get asked for PSA LOA's but having sold many thousands of autographs in my career I have only been asked for a PSA LOA only twice. And both times when I explained why I don't have one the (brand new) client bought the item anyway.

shelly 08-19-2012 05:13 PM

Richard, then you agree that life without tpa's would be just fine. I would also thing that people would save a great deal of money.
I will even go out on a limb and say that before all this is over many of the people on here might find that fact to be true.:)
As far as the kid from Prince Edward Island what else do you have to do there but watch tv and fish and have a small Ebay store.

danc 08-19-2012 06:04 PM

Richard, I don't use TPA's of any sorts as you know and have managed just fine, as you have as well.

But people who need assistance in a complicated collecting genre often need help and this is their safety net because not everyone is specifically educated like yourself or "Boom Boom" Travis. The hobby is so used to using someone to determine whether something is legitimate or not, a new world without TPA's may open up even more avenue's for fraud and unsure collectors will lose interest (especially if two are discredited).

Rich, your clientele deal with you because they don't need to go to a TPA, but how about you leave your penthouse and go to a show at least once every ten years and witness what I witness? :-)

Shelly, wtf...

DanC

shelly 08-19-2012 06:30 PM

So what you are saying is no matter what is right or wrong people need to think that it is authentic?
I am not fighting with you I agree with you. What bothers me is that is truly a shame. I know from many years of knowledge that is what made this hobby a playground for forgers.

WTF :):p;):rolleyes::D:eek::cool:

h to chi.

tinkereversandme 08-20-2012 03:10 PM

As a someewhat new collector who hasn't spent over $100 for an autograph I entrust and trust TPAs because while people on this board say the are experts they have the time and talent to know what I can't know working two jobs. I ask a few people who help me to get a little more insurance on my purchase (dan has helped me a lot, thanks) and therefore a TPA is something the hobby needs for the ten's of thousands like me that are not experts but want to enjoy a great hobby. Just saying. I also enjoy this forum a great deal and have learned quite a bit.

Regards,

Larry

markf31 08-21-2012 06:16 AM

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems something has been missed this entire thread about the original topic and the linked story. See if you can follow my logic:

The story talks about John Gonzales, the former head of Ebay’s fraud division.
It also says he, John Gonzales, dealt DIRECTLY with the handful of authenticators chosen by Ebay.
Now logically, who at Ebay would make that decision to only work with certain Authenticators?
Wouldn’t you think, that it would be Ebays FRAUD division who decided to deal with only a handful of authenticators?
Wouldn’t it be the FRAUD division’s decision who Ebay stood behind?
And who was the HEAD of this division….oh, it was John Gonzales.
If John Gonzales had such a big problem with TPAs….being the head of the FRAUD division, wouldn’t he have the power to do something about it???
I mean he is the head of the department that makes these determinations you would think.

The article goes on to say
“Those in the field of autographs would be shocked to know how many good dealers were removed from eBay for selling genuine autographs deemed fake by PSA/DNA and JSA.”

So what department do you think removed these “good dealers”
Don’t you think that if there was even a question about a dealers credentials, if the dealer was suspected of hawking forged autographs, that it would be the FRAUD division to make the decision to remove them from Ebay?
And again, who was the HEAD of the FRAUD division?
Oh, that’s right it was John Gonzales.
If John Gonzales had such a big problem with Ebay removing reputable dealers, a decision that would have come from the FRAUD division, that John Gonzales being the head of this department, he had the power to step in and take control??
Those “good dealers” were removed ON HIS WATCH!!!

The article continues:
“It has been a conspiracy going on for years, if an expert is asked to join one of the group and they refuse, their material would later be failed by eBay’s authenticators and the sellers would be banned from eBay.”
And again, what department was in charge of banning sellers because they were hawking suspect autographs and authentications?
The Fraud division

Does anyone else see the glaring contradictions in this article?
The logic works for me.
That Ebay’s fraud division would be in charge of removing crooked dealers and forgers and of determining those authenticators that are trustworthy and reputable. If John Gonzales was in charge of this division, and as the article states, he was the head of Ebay’s fraud division for a “very long time” …don’t you think he had the power to take steps to fix these problems he supposedly has/had?

John Gonzales was the head of Ebay’s fraud division for a very long time, if ANYONE had the power to change the culture of autograph authentication on Ebay, it would have been John Gonzales.

RichardSimon 08-21-2012 09:20 AM

I don't know if John made that purported statement or not but four points should be made clear.

1-To the best of my knowledge PSA and JSA were on the ebay approved authenticator list before John took over the fraud department. To the best of my knowledge John had nothing to do with PSA or JSA getting on that list.
If someone knows for sure that is not the case then please correct me. I don't know the exact time frame involved here but I believe that I am correct. But feel free to correct me if you have specific knowledge that I am wrong.

2-John helped form a team of knowledgeable hobby people who were vetted by him and joined the ebay reporting team (at no pay, this was strictly a voluntary thing). The group spent countless hours combing ebay for bogus items, autographs, cards and memorabilia. There were some very, very knowledgeable people in this group. Many bogus items were removed by the team. It got to a point where one extremely knowledgeable person joined the team and even items with PSA and JSA certs were removed from ebay. (remember the $80,000 Walter Johnson ball?).

3-John is still at ebay but in a totally different end of their business. He did not leave ebay.
His surprising move out of the fraud department, I believe, was due to his frustration about the autograph business on ebay.

4-This is speculation on my part but John while he was head of the fraud department did have people that he reported to. He did not have 100% freedom to do what he wanted to do.

JimStinson 08-21-2012 09:20 AM

JimStinson
 
Whatever John G. had to say in private (Good or Bad) about PSA, JSA, AA, AAA, AARP or the NAACP was his business.

As for E-Bay before and after , I'll tell you an experience I recently had and I'll leave it up to those that are smarter than I am to figure it out because it baffles me.

FIRST let me say I have been an active seller on E-Bay for almost 9 years and in those 9 years have had over 15,000 transactions and a feedback score of 100%. I've been an autograph dealer for over 30 years.

I have NEVER , NOT one time EVER had E-Bay take down an autograph because of questions regarding its authenticity. Two weeks ago I sold a $450.00 autograph that was a no-brainer signature on an album page which came out of an IN-PERSON autograph book that had sold at auction a few years ago and HAD A COA from a TPA but I did not mention it in the item description.

The buyer paid for the item I shipped it and ONE WEEK LATER E-Bay sent me an e-mail saying they had taken the item down because of questions regarding its authenticity and that I was NOT to relist it

The buyer then recieved an e-mail from e-bay telling him he did not have to follow through on the transaction, The buyer and I exchanged e-mails , he lives in another country and had not recieved it yet but he assured me that based on the image he had seen on e-bay he was certain it was genuine and I assured him that if he wanted to that at any time he could return it for a refund. I then sent him a copy of the COA from the TPA which happens to be one of E-Bays MOST trusted authentication companies.

48 hours later the buyer files a complaint with pay pal that the autograph he recieved in the mail is a PHOTOCOPY and wants a refund which he gets. I can say THIS for sure the autograph I sold and shipped was 100% and without question NOT a photo copy. But of course how would I ever prove that to pay pal especially in light of the fact that E-Bay has already told the buyer ONE WEEK after he bought it that the autograph had "issues" ?

The whole thing starts to look like a scene out of "The Gang That couldn;t shoot straight" and leaves me to wonder , Who the heck is watching the store ????

Big Dave 08-21-2012 03:00 PM

Can you post the buyer's eBay user name?

Want to put him/her on my block bidder list.

JimStinson 08-22-2012 08:22 AM

JimStinson
 
With regards to my post in this thread, I have and do always believe that people are good considering the number of transactions I do I can count the "bad" experiences and scammers on one hand. The person who recieved the autograph , examined it again and then had an expert examine it again for him and agrees with me that the autograph is 100% authentic and believes that e-bay made a blatant error in removing it and in their follow up e-mails to him. Have included a copy of his e-mail. He is from another country and his english is not the best but here is what he said

dear Mr Stinson, I am sorry for what happened; I opened a case because EBay and Paypal made me in a hurry; after a brief term I had not further occasion to ask for a refund; anyway now I am satisfied for the item I bought from you- I emphasize both your professionality and your long experience in autograph and signature. I close well the case and I'll not send you the signature. I apologize my querry and I hope for your comprehension.
I cannot give you a feedback; the item was removed but in my opinion I should give you a 5 stars positive feedback, for your patience, communication and professionality- I strongly hope to deal again with you in future and I hope, too, you'll not remind the trouble I caused.
Yours sincerely from

isaac2004 08-22-2012 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimStinson (Post 1028450)
Whatever John G. had to say in private (Good or Bad) about PSA, JSA, AA, AAA, AARP or the NAACP was his business.

As for E-Bay before and after , I'll tell you an experience I recently had and I'll leave it up to those that are smarter than I am to figure it out because it baffles me.

FIRST let me say I have been an active seller on E-Bay for almost 9 years and in those 9 years have had over 15,000 transactions and a feedback score of 100%. I've been an autograph dealer for over 30 years.

I have NEVER , NOT one time EVER had E-Bay take down an autograph because of questions regarding its authenticity. Two weeks ago I sold a $450.00 autograph that was a no-brainer signature on an album page which came out of an IN-PERSON autograph book that had sold at auction a few years ago and HAD A COA from a TPA but I did not mention it in the item description.

The buyer paid for the item I shipped it and ONE WEEK LATER E-Bay sent me an e-mail saying they had taken the item down because of questions regarding its authenticity and that I was NOT to relist it

The buyer then recieved an e-mail from e-bay telling him he did not have to follow through on the transaction, The buyer and I exchanged e-mails , he lives in another country and had not recieved it yet but he assured me that based on the image he had seen on e-bay he was certain it was genuine and I assured him that if he wanted to that at any time he could return it for a refund. I then sent him a copy of the COA from the TPA which happens to be one of E-Bays MOST trusted authentication companies.

48 hours later the buyer files a complaint with pay pal that the autograph he recieved in the mail is a PHOTOCOPY and wants a refund which he gets. I can say THIS for sure the autograph I sold and shipped was 100% and without question NOT a photo copy. But of course how would I ever prove that to pay pal especially in light of the fact that E-Bay has already told the buyer ONE WEEK after he bought it that the autograph had "issues" ?

The whole thing starts to look like a scene out of "The Gang That couldn;t shoot straight" and leaves me to wonder , Who the heck is watching the store ????


But her returned the item correct? Just checking, because I have been nearly burned with returns from other countries (had to be on the phone with paypal multiple times)

JimStinson 08-22-2012 09:29 AM

JimStinson
 
No I offered to allow him to return it as I have a liberal return policy anyway in addition to lifetime guarantee of authenticity. But he WANTS to keep the item has closed the transaction out and the "held" funds were then released.

isaac2004 08-22-2012 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimStinson (Post 1028895)
No I offered to allow him to return it as I have a liberal return policy anyway in addition to lifetime guarantee of authenticity. But he WANTS to keep the item has closed the transaction out and the "held" funds were then released.


Lovely... and I am guessing ebay wont help with that

drc 08-22-2012 10:55 AM

I thought the item in dispute had to be returned first. eBay usually takes the buyer's side, but normally requires the buyer to return the item before refund is given. At least that's what I thought.

thecatspajamas 08-22-2012 11:29 AM

Jim,
Congrats on seeing that situation through to the end and actually getting a favorable outcome for you and the seller both. Sometimes patience and understanding pays off. Unfortunately, that is all-too-often not the case when dealing with eBay. I think it helps that you had a buyer that was not only honest, but willing to put in a couple of extra minutes communicating with eBay (also all-too-often not the case).

David Atkatz 08-22-2012 01:38 PM

Similar thing happened to me, Jim. A while back I concurrently posted a Ruth/Gehrig ball on eBay, and on the Net54 B/S/T. The ball had a PSA certificate when I obtained it, and so I listed it as such. I received a number of emails, but the next thing I know, eBay removed the listing.

A potential buyer contacted me, and I explained the situation--the removal by eBay--but assured him I stood behind the ball and offered (of course) a full refund should he not be satisfied. As he lived in SoCal, he wanted to bring the ball to PSA to recheck the ball's--and the certificate's authenticity.

I marked the ball "sold" on the B/S/T thread, and was immediately accused of dishonesty by two of the board's prominent members for daring to sell an item that all-knowing eBay removed.

travrosty 08-22-2012 06:25 PM

we had listed a signed 8 x 10 from a private signing session we did and included a photo of the guy signing the photos as proof, and ebay took it down over "authenticity issues" and told us not to relist it.

it was a case of sour grapes , someone reporting stuff because they dont like the person and it had nothing to do with authenticity. thats why gonzalez was having a headache. some of the guys reporting bad stuff to him were just reporting it for spite. there are plenty of psa and jsa items still up that will never get taken down even though they are bad. some that get taken down are good, and who is watching the watchers? no one is watching the watchers, they will do what they want and make it hell for someone if they want.

toybulldog 08-22-2012 10:32 PM

Quote:

there are plenty of psa and jsa items still up that will never get taken down even though they are bad. some that get taken down are good, and who is watching the watchers? no one is watching the watchers, they will do what they want and make it hell for someone if they want.
They certainly flubbed the real "Toy Bulldog" Mickey Walker here. How is it you can often put these TPA autographs smack dab in the middle of genuine exemplars and they show no resemblance at all? If they are giving their opinion that this is real, how are they forming that opinion? Does this particular TPA have any 1931 Mickey Walker exemplars that are consistent with this autograph? If so I would like to see them. If they don't have any consistent exemplars would this be considered a mistake or would this be a fraud? Would this be showing favortism to a certain submitter or a certain auction house from which this came from?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271037362197...84.m1438.l2649

WE send ebay stuff like this all the time but they leave them up with their evidenceless silly letters and stickers.

http://www.fighttoys.com/Walker,Mick...rison%20SR.JPG

travrosty 08-23-2012 12:00 AM

exactly what i am talking about, you can't get this jsa certed piece off of ebay now. it has the almighty's coa now, so no amount of evidence is going to show ebay that it's no good. They can't go against their "preapproved" authenticators, because it would show the world that the world experts don't know Mickey Walker.

travrosty 08-23-2012 12:00 AM

......

itslarry 08-23-2012 05:30 AM

Ive been reading this for a hot minute now, i kinda understand what everyones yelling about, but what should be done in your opinion travis?
Like a few others have mentioned, for those of us just getting into the hobby TPA are pretty good. Sure they aren't fail proof and i understand that i should do some simple checking around, but with my lack of knowledge and limited are there any other alternatives out there?

markf31 08-23-2012 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travrosty (Post 1029138)
exactly what i am talking about, you can't get this jsa certed piece off of ebay now. it has the almighty's coa now, so no amount of evidence is going to show ebay that it's no good. They can't go against their "preapproved" authenticators, because it would show the world that the world experts don't know Mickey Walker.

Ebay has in the past removed JSA and PSA authenticated items, now granted it might be a little more difficult to convince Ebay to remove JSA and PSA authenticated items. But we don't know the guidelines Ebay uses for pulling items. I would think at a minimum, a certain number of complaints about a specific item or even a seller would be needed to trigger a red flag where Ebay would look into a listing. You certainly can't expect Ebay to pull an item because 3, 4 or even 5 people email them questioning it's authenticity, can you? That simply opens the door for petty and vindictive accusations between sellers.


The fact is we don't know what Ebay's protocol is for removing suspected forgeries, and as a result it's diffcicult to make broad general accusations against them when we don't know what their policies are.

Stalwart Fellow 09-21-2012 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere (Post 1026134)
Then why did you post it?

It is purported that you know the author of that article/post.

Maybe you can convince the author to come over here and show us the original email exchanges and for the author to identify himself?

Truthisoutthere;

Shame on you...

were Travrosty, or anyone else, to post those Emails it would undoubtedly be a violation of forum rules!

http://www.net54baseball.com/faq.php?faq=testfaq#faq_12

Please refrain from asking others to violate these rules :)

كريستوفر وليامز

Stalwart Fellow 09-22-2012 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itslarry (Post 1029151)
Ive been reading this for a hot minute now, i kinda understand what everyones yelling about, but what should be done in your opinion travis?
Like a few others have mentioned, for those of us just getting into the hobby TPA are pretty good. Sure they aren't fail proof and i understand that i should do some simple checking around, but with my lack of knowledge and limited are there any other alternatives out there?

It seems that there are many who have issues with PSA/DNA

http://www.autographnewslive.com/19-...rs-have-to-say

My suggestion as to who to believe?

Pert near everyone...

Travis should go right ahead and keep doing what he does!
Christopher Williams also.

...and certainly don't put anyone or any organization on a pedestal (Big mistake!).

Travis used his Name over at Autograph Magazine Live and where has that gotten him? Was he a coward? What role does he hold at AML now?

There was a time Christopher Williams did NOT Identify himself with his name at AML..., what has that done for him?

Fox News, MSNBC, CNN who do you trust for your news?

Dan Rather, Walter Cronkite, Hearst Newspapers?

The Internet?

Seems some do.

mighty bombjack 09-22-2012 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stalwart Fellow (Post 1038669)

...and certainly don't put anyone or any organization on a pedestal (Big mistake!).

I just want to tell you that I agree with this line of your post. And that it is the only line of your post that I completely understand.

travrosty 09-22-2012 08:01 PM

exactly right, i posted my name at aml, always blogged under my own name, what a coward , huh?

it got me banned, when people who won't tell anyone their real name blog away and chris williams doesnt care and doesnt demand they identify themselves.

but at autographnewslive, where you get the unvarnished truth, now all of the sudden this anonymous blogging is a problem. why?

everyone i know has seen this email by now and has had access to it for quite awhile. he did say what he said, that they suck. if you havent seen the email by now, what can i tell you?

travrosty 09-22-2012 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itslarry (Post 1029151)
Ive been reading this for a hot minute now, i kinda understand what everyones yelling about, but what should be done in your opinion travis?
Like a few others have mentioned, for those of us just getting into the hobby TPA are pretty good. Sure they aren't fail proof and i understand that i should do some simple checking around, but with my lack of knowledge and limited are there any other alternatives out there?



news flash, tpa are NOT pretty good, the two in question anyway.

the alternative is to know what you are buying. ask real professionals, long time dealers and collectors and not some guy sitting behind a desk who doesnt even know mickey walker, doesnt know john l sullivan, doesnt know james corbett, doesnt know, james jeffries, doesnt know jack johnson, doesnt now jack dempsey, doesnt know joe louis, doesnt know rocky marciano, doesn't know sonny liston, doesnt know muhammad ali, doesnt know evender holyfield, doesnt know marvin hagler, doesnt know battling nelson, doesnt know lius firpo. you say they are pretty good, gotta be kidding me.

mighty bombjack 09-22-2012 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travrosty (Post 1038694)
news flash, tpa are NOT pretty good, the two in question anyway.

the alternative is to know what you are buying. ask real professionals, long time dealers and collectors and not some guy sitting behind a desk who doesnt even know mickey walker, doesnt know john l sullivan, doesnt know james corbett, doesnt know, james jeffries, doesnt know jack johnson, doesnt now jack dempsey, doesnt know joe louis, doesnt know rocky marciano, doesn't know sonny liston, doesnt know muhammad ali, doesnt know evender holyfield, doesnt know marvin hagler, doesnt know battling nelson, doesnt know lius firpo. you say they are pretty good, gotta be kidding me.

You have convinced me that they are not pretty good in boxing. I don't collect boxing. Have never bought or even considered a single auto.

I collect baseball, and think they are pretty good (not perfect or infallible) in baseball. Don't know what else to say.

Mr. Zipper 09-22-2012 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack (Post 1038688)
And that it is the only line of your post that I completely understand.

That's good old Grant Vander Streek. He's a real stalwart fellow.

Stalwart Fellow 09-22-2012 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper (Post 1038705)
That's good old Grant Vander Streek. He's a real stalwart fellow.

No "r" after "e" in the last name :)

travrosty 09-23-2012 12:57 PM

5900 hits, this article must have been something people wanted to read but the mainstream collectors media outlets have been unable or unwilling to report on. that is why autographnewslive is important, to tell the stories others are unwilling to tell.

it broke the al pacino-al ruddy story pawn stars story and many more.


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